err......500 pages?

[Billy the Fish]

I don't know why people are taking a dig at the OP, he's not far wrong with what he says.

You can bang on about employment law all you want, but football doesn't operate like other businesses and it never has. Treating the manager of a football club like you would treat someone who has been caught nicking stuff from the stationry cupboard is ridiculous. It just doesn't happen.

Football cubs are reduced to two options - keep and honour the contract or sack and pay the compo. This drawn out process will not work in the clubs favour and has already damaged it's name and new found professionalism.

 

[The Birdman]

Shake hands and all be men lets get on and win the league as per our five year plan. No one bigger than the club.

 

[teaboy]

I don't know why people are taking a dig at the OP, he's not far wrong with what he says.

You can bang on about employment law all you want, but football doesn't operate like other businesses and it never has. Treating the manager of a football club like you would treat someone who has been caught nicking stuff from the stationry cupboard is ridiculous. It just doesn't happen.

Football cubs are reduced to two options - keep and honour the contract or sack and pay the compo. This drawn out process will not work in the clubs favour and has already damaged it's name and new found professionalism.

Legally (and that's what we're talking here) you're wrong. Poyet, as an employee of Brighton and Hove Albion, has the same rights to be treated fairly as anyone else does, or anyone employed in a different industry. That means disciplinary hearings, union representation, fair time to prepare a defence and evidence provided against him.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

It's called due diligence.

 

[Hotchilidog]

I don't know why people are taking a dig at the OP, he's not far wrong with what he says.

You can bang on about employment law all you want, but football doesn't operate like other businesses and it never has. Treating the manager of a football club like you would treat someone who has been caught nicking stuff from the stationry cupboard is ridiculous. It just doesn't happen.

Football cubs are reduced to two options - keep and honour the contract or sack and pay the compo. This drawn out process will not work in the clubs favour and has already damaged it's name and new found professionalism.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. It appears that club, for good or ill, are trying to do things the right way. At least Gus will have the opportunity to answer the charges against rather than be summarily dismissed. This is of course if the result of the investigation has found Gus guilty of the charges in the first place.

I do however believe that the board are more likely to have the club's interests at heart than Gus, who not unreasonably will be more concerned about his career.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

You can bang on about employment law all you want, but football doesn't operate like other businesses and it never has.

Legally (and that's what we're talking here) you're wrong. Poyet, as an employee of Brighton and Hove Albion, has the same rights to be treated fairly as anyone else does, or anyone employed in a different industry. That means disciplinary hearings, union representation, fair time to prepare a defence and evidence provided against him.

To be fair, you are both right here. Technically, of course, it's teaboy, who is right. Football clearly IS subject to the same employment laws as any other industry.

However, there is merit in Billy's statement too - that "football doesn't OPERATE like businesses". This isn't to say that the usual rules don't apply - more that they are commonly disregarded by football clubs. Football's industry norm is to sack the individual first, and THEN conduct the legal wranglings. It may seem that clubs simply sack the manager without any regard to the legalities. the truth is that all that stuff DOES go on, either in or out of court, but its too dull for the media to bother covering, so you generally don't hear about it. (The recent Blackburn case being an exception, due to the comedic and shock value of the club's sheer ineptitude).

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Looking at a shambles of a club like Blackburn and how they operate I'm more than happy our club treats such matters in a more professional manner than just hiring and firing people at will.

 

[imissworthing2]

Altho I fully understand how the report is 500 pages, I made a point yesterday that surely Gus has been doing a fair bit wrong over the course of the season to warrant such an exhaustive case against him. Wasn't it somebody's job to keep an eye on him over this time.

" Ahh c'mon now Gus, you can't just go touching the girls bums whilst shouting eees constipated. It's against the rules"

Rather more sinister, it seems like Gus' every action was a "dear diary" moment for someone with an axe to grind

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Altho I fully understand how the report is 500 pages, I made a point yesterday that surely Gus has been doing a fair bit wrong over the course of the season to warrant such an exhaustive case against him. Wasn't it somebody's job to keep an eye on him over this time.

" Ahh c'mon now Gus, you can't just go touching the girls bums whilst shouting eees constipated. It's against the rules"

Rather more sinister, it seems like Gus' every action was a "dear diary" moment for someone with an axe to grind

As has been mentioned elsewhere, the 'Appendices running to 500 pages' will undoubtably have included his contract for starters, which could easily have run to a large chunk of that. Throw in a few other legal bits and pieces, and you might be left with far, far less. We're not actally talking about 500 pages of allegations / charges, as some are trying to suggest.

 

[MattBackHome]

Mods - can this thread please be merged.

With a sewage outflow pipe.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

this really has got my goat.

a club i loved for all my life now tries to get rid of managers with 500 (five hundred) page legal dossiers on wrong doings......that still are not known or proved.

it's not the way, its all too corporate........where has my football club gone?

tip1: don't give managers massive compo clauses in their contracts.
tip2: don't employ somone to CEO the club if he and the manager hate eachother from the past.
tip3: keeping fans / customers / employers in the dark for weeks over big issues is suicide, it doesn't matter what f00king pie or what new kit is coming.....or what 4 course meal is coming in the east stand.


500 pages......what a bunch of clowns....this 500 pages can't be that good or they would have already sacked him!

page 345: Gus once did not wash up his mug in the kitchem
page 388: Gus once cheated in a 5-a-side by doing a handball and playing on.
page 466: Gus once told Harley he was "a pile of dog shit and an embarrasment."
page 477: Gus once said in a team talk, "dont pass the halfway line until 60 minutes, and if you go 0-1 down, give up and show limp wristedness."

any more?

but people on here would be celebrating page 466 surely?

i once saw an HR letter for grounds of dismissal of an employee and although the employee was incompetent and negligent and there was no way they could contest the dismissal as they had performed gross misconduct, some of the things included were ridiculous including "sitting on a desk"

 

[pal4life]

Well of course the club think he is guilty or a statement would be released saying that it had concluded its investigation and that GP was free to resume his job.

 

[Goldstone76]

If the club wanted this to be resolved quickly then 500 pages of 'you did this and you said that' was never going to result in anything being laid to rest quickly. Of course GP is going to get as much as he can get and what if hes been mistreated in some way that we dont know about? TB should have just had a word and said 'hey.. things are not working out so lets work a way out for you into another club and best wishes. Looks like a grand miscalculation by someone at the club thats cost a few million compensation and far more damaging is that we have no manager. Players back next week but apparently have been told there maybe a delay. This whole sorry saga should have been dealt with far far better than it has. This could cost huge and if its not sorted by the end of July I fear for this season!

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Calm down everyone. 500 pages is not unusual in moderately involved disciplinary investigations. In reality it forms a 'bundle' with the concise charges and evidence such as witness statements, transcripts of video footage up front and then a shed load of appendices including the various letters that have been exchanged by both sides plus Gus's contract and the Club Handbook. Could easily stretch to 500 pages. The Club would be negligent if it failed to produce all material documents.

The bundle has to include all relevant papers so both parties and whoever is presiding at the hearing are all referring to the same evidence etc.. The critical bit is the particulars. The charges will be very concise and clear.

I also suggest that the LMA was being a bit disingenuous but not out of order claiming lack of time to read through the bundle when it is very likely that Gus's lawyers will have held copies of most of the bundle already, in order to consider their positions and advise their client, so some of it should be very familiar to them. I just see it as a routine stalling tactic.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

A relative of mine is a tribunal chairman and their office has a huge problem of surplus ring binders left over from cases, I could open a stationary shop and never be short of stock. 500 pages is pretty standard.

 

[Dr NBC]

a club i loved for all my life now tries to get rid of managers with 500 (five hundred) page legal dossiers on wrong doings......that still are not known or proved.

Really? It seems that these things are "known" to club management. I don't really think they care about what happens in the court of public opinion right now - and they shouldn't. So certain people feel "left out" of the decision-making process - TS.

 

[father_and_son]

this really has got my goat.

a club i loved for all my life now tries to get rid of managers with 500 (five hundred) page legal dossiers on wrong doings......that still are not known or proved.

it's not the way, its all too corporate........where has my football club gone?

tip1: don't give managers massive compo clauses in their contracts.
tip2: don't employ somone to CEO the club if he and the manager hate eachother from the past.
tip3: keeping fans / customers / employers in the dark for weeks over big issues is suicide, it doesn't matter what f00king pie or what new kit is coming.....or what 4 course meal is coming in the east stand.


500 pages......what a bunch of clowns....this 500 pages can't be that good or they would have already sacked him!

page 345: Gus once did not wash up his mug in the kitchem
page 388: Gus once cheated in a 5-a-side by doing a handball and playing on.
page 466: Gus once told Harley he was "a pile of dog shit and an embarrasment."
page 477: Gus once said in a team talk, "dont pass the halfway line until 60 minutes, and if you go 0-1 down, give up and show limp wristedness."

any more?

It's not YOUR club. Like it or not its a business that employs people. Those people want and need contracts to be secure in their jobs. Those contracts need clauses to ensure that both sides are protected should the other side want out before the end date.

Grow up for f**ks sake. This isn't the gang you created in the park with your mates when you were 7. This is a multi-million pound business in a multi-billion pound industry.

 

[father_and_son]

Calm down everyone. 500 pages is not unusual in moderately involved disciplinary investigations. In reality it forms a 'bundle' with the concise charges and evidence such as witness statements, transcripts of video footage up front and then a shed load of appendices including the various letters that have been exchanged by both sides plus Gus's contract and the Club Handbook. Could easily stretch to 500 pages. The Club would be negligent if it failed to produce all material documents.

The bundle has to include all relevant papers so both parties and whoever is presiding at the hearing are all referring to the same evidence etc.. The critical bit is the particulars. The charges will be very concise and clear.

I also suggest that the LMA was being a bit disingenuous but not out of order claiming lack of time to read through the bundle when it is very likely that Gus's lawyers will have held copies of most of the bundle already, in order to consider their positions and advise their client, so some of it should be very familiar to them. I just see it as a routine stalling tactic.

Presumably Gus is represented by the same firm that advised him when he signed his contract in the first place. A substantial amount of the 500 pages will be a document they were involved in drawing up and they only task will be to ensure that the clubs copy matches theirs. A trivial task but requires time to complete.

As you said... really nothing unusual going on.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Presumably Gus is represented by the same firm that advised him when he signed his contract in the first place. A substantial amount of the 500 pages will be a document they were involved in drawing up and they only task will be to ensure that the clubs copy matches theirs. A trivial task but requires time to complete.

As you said... really nothing unusual going on.

Quite. Plus I would be surprised if the Club handbook and managerial contracts are not broadly based around template documents that the LMA see as good practice.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

Quite. Plus I would be surprised if the Club handbook and managerial contracts are not broadly based around template documents that the LMA see as good practice.

how much sway does a club handbook hold? we have a company handbook that states something like "this is a guide and if anything within contradicts your contract then your contract is the legally binding document"