Pretty much, on paper it suggests how good that era team could have been that such a good Brazil team was largely nullified by them
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[Football] England's best ever opponents?
- Thread starter Lenny Rider
- Start date
Nigella's Cream Pie
Fingerlickin good
Nobby Cybergoat
Well-known member
- Jul 19, 2021
- 8,624
On an athletic level, yes, so I think we can say with near certainty that the best opponents England have ever faced, were Spain at the weekend
Lenny Rider
Well-known member
- Sep 15, 2010
- 6,010
- Thread starter
- #24
Even Scotland?
Lenny Rider
Well-known member
- Sep 15, 2010
- 6,010
- Thread starter
- #25
Competitive fixture or friendlies?
Friendlies against the Marvellous Magyars.
The title doesn't specify.
As others have said, Spain at the weekend would probably beat anyone we have been battered by in the past,
England wouldn’t, we’d just sit deep and the 1970 Brazil team would play around us.
Cheshire Cat
The most curious thing..
Mostly Franz Beckenbauer and Gerhard Muller
stewart12
Well-known member
- Jan 16, 2019
- 1,920
well I've watched from 96 onwards, and whilst I'm not an England fan, I have lived here my whole life so do at least have a passing interest.
1996: The best team England faced was obviously Germany who were of course a really good side with the likes of Sammer, Klinsmann & Moller but I wouldn't class it as a particularly great German side, just marginally better than the rest of Europe at the time
1998: Quite a straightforward group that England somehow managed to finish 2nd in then the Argentina side that they lost to were decent enough but nothing special
2000: Out in the first round, the Portugal side from that group were pretty decent and got to the semi's, but they were much better 4 years later
2002: Nothing special from the group or second round opponents Denmark, but that Brazil team had an exceptional front 3 in Ronaldo, Rivaldo and Ronaldinho, as well as 2 of the best full backs of all time. It was an odd tournament where a lot of the top sides went out early leaving a vacuum for an admittedly good Brazilian team to win- not sure how highly regarded that side is held in over in Brazil as aside from the obvious stars it did contain some pretty average players (Kleberson, Roque Junior etc)
2004: Pretty average group but the Portugal side they narrowly lost to were very good and really should have won the tournament. Porto won the CL that year with a predominantly Portuguese team, plus they had the likes of Figo, Rui Costa and a young Cristiano Ronaldo (and they were at home!).
2006: Same as above really with the exception being that Ronaldo was 2 years older
2008: Didn't qualify
2010: Less said about this one the better. Utter dross in the first round but the German side that they lost to were decent- not at the levels that they would be 4 years later but decent none the less
2012: Went out to an Italian side that got to the final but were shown up by Spain once they got there, decent enough but meh
2014: On paper this group looked hard but in reality it was 4 quite mediocre teams with England the most mediocre of the lot
2016: Less said about this one the better
2018: The only good sides that England faced were Belgium, with the most overhyped "golden generation" since England's in the 00's and Croatia who had 1 outstanding player
2021: Billy Gilmour's Scotland aside, they faced a load of dross and lost to a decent Italian side- in reality England were probably the best team in this tournament and should have won it
2022: Again faced a load of dross in the first round, then Senegal then lost to a France side who, were it not for Messi would have won the whole thing. Were they a great side? Well they had 1 outstanding player in Mbappe but not sure I'd call it a truly vintage French side
to summarise, the answer to the original question is probably a team from before I was born!
1996: The best team England faced was obviously Germany who were of course a really good side with the likes of Sammer, Klinsmann & Moller but I wouldn't class it as a particularly great German side, just marginally better than the rest of Europe at the time
1998: Quite a straightforward group that England somehow managed to finish 2nd in then the Argentina side that they lost to were decent enough but nothing special
2000: Out in the first round, the Portugal side from that group were pretty decent and got to the semi's, but they were much better 4 years later
2002: Nothing special from the group or second round opponents Denmark, but that Brazil team had an exceptional front 3 in Ronaldo, Rivaldo and Ronaldinho, as well as 2 of the best full backs of all time. It was an odd tournament where a lot of the top sides went out early leaving a vacuum for an admittedly good Brazilian team to win- not sure how highly regarded that side is held in over in Brazil as aside from the obvious stars it did contain some pretty average players (Kleberson, Roque Junior etc)
2004: Pretty average group but the Portugal side they narrowly lost to were very good and really should have won the tournament. Porto won the CL that year with a predominantly Portuguese team, plus they had the likes of Figo, Rui Costa and a young Cristiano Ronaldo (and they were at home!).
2006: Same as above really with the exception being that Ronaldo was 2 years older
2008: Didn't qualify
2010: Less said about this one the better. Utter dross in the first round but the German side that they lost to were decent- not at the levels that they would be 4 years later but decent none the less
2012: Went out to an Italian side that got to the final but were shown up by Spain once they got there, decent enough but meh
2014: On paper this group looked hard but in reality it was 4 quite mediocre teams with England the most mediocre of the lot
2016: Less said about this one the better
2018: The only good sides that England faced were Belgium, with the most overhyped "golden generation" since England's in the 00's and Croatia who had 1 outstanding player
2021: Billy Gilmour's Scotland aside, they faced a load of dross and lost to a decent Italian side- in reality England were probably the best team in this tournament and should have won it
2022: Again faced a load of dross in the first round, then Senegal then lost to a France side who, were it not for Messi would have won the whole thing. Were they a great side? Well they had 1 outstanding player in Mbappe but not sure I'd call it a truly vintage French side
to summarise, the answer to the original question is probably a team from before I was born!
Weststander
Well-known member
Also worth a mention, West Germany in the Euros QF 1st leg at Wembley 29 April 1972. With Bonhof and Heynckes on the bench. The England team was still highly regarded, but chased shadows.
cheshunt seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 2,594
Brazil 70 were probably the best but West Germany in 72 were excellent and in a different league to Ramsey's team. It should have been a massive wake-up call but the people that mattered carried on sleepwalking. The rest of us got used to seeing major tournaments without England.
Some of the teams England faced before the 90s might have been better relative to everybody else, but I strongly suspect that says more about a generally lower quality than anything else.
If we've not played anybody who's all that good in about 30years, despite meeting the tournament winners on numerous occasions, it does suggest that either our standards are too high or international teams just aren't all that good.
Well picking Richard Madeley at RB was always a gamble
Spain 2008-2012 for international teams and Barca 2009-2011 for club teams.
Weststander
Well-known member
AC Milan 87-93 versus that Barca, would imho be the ultimate club final.
Kalimantan Gull
Well-known member
Netherlands in '88 were a pretty damn good side, probably not at the 1974 level but the only Dutch side to win a major tournament, Gullit, Rijkaard, Ronald Koeman and of course Marco van Basten whose hattrick swept England aside in the group stages.
Yep. Sacchi v Guardiola - two of the four greatest managers of all time with Cruyff and Michels.
Weststander
Well-known member
I love the lineage Michels > Cruyff > Guardiola. Michels transformed football, still to this day.
Last edited:
- Feb 22, 2014
- 2,808
Excellent teams no doubt but the OP asked for the best teams that England faced and I’m pretty sure we didn’t play Spain during that period. I’m pretty sure I would have remembered the bloodbath if we had as I was living in Spain by then!
