I don't see why Poland, or any other national team, should set out to do us 'favours' though.
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[Football] England World Cup Record
- Thread starter Mo Gosfield
- Start date
I don't see why Poland, or any other national team, should set out to do us 'favours' though.
I don't think it is fair to look at England's record since the Olden Days any more than it's fair to judge England's contemporary music since the Olden Days.
The modern era for me began with Sven, and after some blips has blossomed, now that we have a modern set up with a management team that can make the players step beyond club loyalty.
Had we not hosted and won it in 66 we may have carried the English disdain for The Foreign well into the 70s. You could pay on the gate for the 66 world cup final, and there wasn't a George flag to be seen (it was all Union Jacks). We hadn't much idea about English nationalism because we didn't think beyond our own shores. Primitive times.
Unfortunately, after we won it, we thought we owned it, and just had to turn up to win. English football was deeply working class and unprofessional, with boozing and smoking de rigeur. The 'failures' were too much to take for some people, with anger, anxt and tomfoolery in abundance.
And we had toxic media and an emergent English Nationalist fanbase (of nob heads).
A lot of that seems to have faded. The Sun and Star and Mirror no longer have the traction with the working class they once did. The England fan base seems much nicer now (after the hiatus against the Irish when the game was abandoned due to shameful England 'fan' behaviour). We have, I think, moved on somewhat.
We have a chance now to clear our heads, have a bit of pride in what we are (as a nation and as a football team) and look forward to more lovely games, emerging talent, English players who understand what club and country mean and, perhaps, a trophy.
The modern era for me began with Sven, and after some blips has blossomed, now that we have a modern set up with a management team that can make the players step beyond club loyalty.
Had we not hosted and won it in 66 we may have carried the English disdain for The Foreign well into the 70s. You could pay on the gate for the 66 world cup final, and there wasn't a George flag to be seen (it was all Union Jacks). We hadn't much idea about English nationalism because we didn't think beyond our own shores. Primitive times.
Unfortunately, after we won it, we thought we owned it, and just had to turn up to win. English football was deeply working class and unprofessional, with boozing and smoking de rigeur. The 'failures' were too much to take for some people, with anger, anxt and tomfoolery in abundance.
And we had toxic media and an emergent English Nationalist fanbase (of nob heads).
A lot of that seems to have faded. The Sun and Star and Mirror no longer have the traction with the working class they once did. The England fan base seems much nicer now (after the hiatus against the Irish when the game was abandoned due to shameful England 'fan' behaviour). We have, I think, moved on somewhat.
We have a chance now to clear our heads, have a bit of pride in what we are (as a nation and as a football team) and look forward to more lovely games, emerging talent, English players who understand what club and country mean and, perhaps, a trophy.
Our international record - considering size of population, the amount of money spent in the game, and this being the national obsession - is abysmal.
Look at the track record of the French.
If we really wanted to win the World Cup - or any other trophy - then we have to start asking why we're not producing the players who can do it.
Look at the track record of the French.
If we really wanted to win the World Cup - or any other trophy - then we have to start asking why we're not producing the players who can do it.
Interestingly though - the French either do really well, or flop completely.
1954 - didn't get out of the group
1958 - 3rd
1962 - didn't qualify
1966 - didn't get out of the group
1970 - didn't qualify
1974 - 4th
1978 - didn't get out of the group
1982 - 4th
1986 - 3rd
1990 - didn't qualify
1994 - didn't qualify
1998 - Winners
2002 - didn't get out of the group
2006 - Runners-up
2010 - didn't get out of the group
2014 - Quarter-Finals
2018 - Winners
2022 - At least 4th
And overall results - not a lot between us.
| Rank | Team | Part | Pld | W | D | L | GF | GA | GD | Pts |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 22 | 114 | 76 | 19 | 19 | 237 | 108 | +129 | 247 | |
| 2 | 20 | 112 | 68 | 21 | 23 | 232 | 130 | +102 | 225 | |
| 3 | 18 | 88 | 48 | 16 | 24 | 152 | 98 | +54 | 160 | |
| 4 | 18 | 83 | 45 | 21 | 17 | 128 | 77 | +51 | 156 | |
| 5 | 16 | 71 | 38 | 13 | 20 | 131 | 82 | +49 | 127 | |
| 6 | 16 | 74 | 32 | 22 | 20 | 104 | 68 | +36 | 118 | |
| 7 | 16 | 67 | 31 | 17 | 19 | 108 | 75 | +33 | 110 | |
| 8 | 11 | 55 | 30 | 14 | 11 | 96 | 52 | +44 | 104 | |
| 9 | 14 | 59 | 25 | 13 | 21 | 89 | 76 | +13 | 88 | |
| 10 | 14 | 51 | 21 | 10 | 20 | 69 | 74 | −5 | 73 |
warmleyseagull
Well-known member
The worst possible excuse is bad luck...
But actually I think England have been unlucky. Selective choice perhaps but take following (no preordained order): Hand of God (1986); Lineker misses equalizer in same game by a hairs width when Barnes was causing mayhem; Waddle hits inside of post (1990); Beckham sent off by influenced ref (1998); Campbell within inches of equalizing (same game); Lampard disallowed goal for 2-2 that would have been given now (2010); Keegan & Brooking somehow fail to score (1982).
1970 was my single biggest nightmare as Ramsey did a reverse Southgate and bring on subs he never should have against West Germany, let Beckenbauer get forward by taking off Bobby Charlton, and Bonetti the flapper did the rest. England were the only team to concede less than 3 to Brazil (IMO the finest team in history) in whole tournament.
Of course I have red and white specs but I really cannot think of equivalent KO matches where I think we got away with one; a poor performance where we squeezed a result that was undeserved. Perhaps we can't do what Hansen said was secret of success at Liverpool: win when not playing well.
But actually I think England have been unlucky. Selective choice perhaps but take following (no preordained order): Hand of God (1986); Lineker misses equalizer in same game by a hairs width when Barnes was causing mayhem; Waddle hits inside of post (1990); Beckham sent off by influenced ref (1998); Campbell within inches of equalizing (same game); Lampard disallowed goal for 2-2 that would have been given now (2010); Keegan & Brooking somehow fail to score (1982).
1970 was my single biggest nightmare as Ramsey did a reverse Southgate and bring on subs he never should have against West Germany, let Beckenbauer get forward by taking off Bobby Charlton, and Bonetti the flapper did the rest. England were the only team to concede less than 3 to Brazil (IMO the finest team in history) in whole tournament.
Of course I have red and white specs but I really cannot think of equivalent KO matches where I think we got away with one; a poor performance where we squeezed a result that was undeserved. Perhaps we can't do what Hansen said was secret of success at Liverpool: win when not playing well.
um bongo molongo
Well-known member
Belgium in 1990 we were very lucky. They hit the woodwork twice from memory. Not a WC but we were also very lucky against Spain in 1996. And if we’d have had the penalty given against us that Sterling won against Denmark in ET of last year’s Euros we’d have still been moaning about it now. But overall your point stands.
NorthstandRacoon
Well-known member
Very interesting points. I for one am excited about England, I think something special is being created for the National side. We look better as each tournament passes and this squad is still full of young and Middle Aged (in footballing terms), talent. Yes we didn't make the Semi's this World Cup, but, we played very well on Saturday and even the French look to have noted that. Become more clinical, stop being too ponderous and we will be very strong contenders for the Euro's and World Cup. Southgate needs to address some of his dodgy tactics though. I definitely don't want him to go which is a complete 180 to what I said before the World Cup.
portlock seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,779
195 countries in world.
8 have won it, including England.
I’d say that’s pretty damn impressive all things considered. The bashers won’t like this mind.
8 have won it, including England.
I’d say that’s pretty damn impressive all things considered. The bashers won’t like this mind.
portlock seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,779
Not really, how do you rate Chinas and India and Indonesia and Pakistan and Nigeria and Mexico and and and…? You’re just more emotionally attached to Englands, and share our national strength that’s is moaning and an over so slight sense of entitlement.
Interestingly though - the French either do really well, or flop completely.
1954 - didn't get out of the group
1958 - 3rd
1962 - didn't qualify
1966 - didn't get out of the group
1970 - didn't qualify
1974 - 4th
1978 - didn't get out of the group
1982 - 4th
1986 - 3rd
1990 - didn't qualify
1994 - didn't qualify
1998 - Winners
2002 - didn't get out of the group
2006 - Runners-up
2010 - didn't get out of the group
2014 - Quarter-Finals
2018 - Winners
2022 - At least 4th
And overall results - not a lot between us.
Rank Team Part Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts 1 22 114 76 19 19 237 108 +129 247 2 20 112 68 21 23 232 130 +102 225 3 18 88 48 16 24 152 98 +54 160 4 18 83 45 21 17 128 77 +51 156 5 16 71 38 13 20 131 82 +49 127 6 16 74 32 22 20 104 68 +36 118 7 16 67 31 17 19 108 75 +33 110 8 11 55 30 14 11 96 52 +44 104 9 14 59 25 13 21 89 76 +13 88 10 14 51 21 10 20 69 74 −5 73
Would like to see the table pre-1998. France and Spain, for example, would be much further down.
That's the issue - other countries have got better and actually delivered trophies. England have got a bit better (at times), and haven't.
The French set up INF Clairefontaine in 1988. Given the entry age is 13 they would not have seen any results until 1993-1995. I think it’s fair to say their record since then has been pretty decent.Interestingly though - the French either do really well, or flop completely.
1954 - didn't get out of the group
1958 - 3rd
1962 - didn't qualify
1966 - didn't get out of the group
1970 - didn't qualify
1974 - 4th
1978 - didn't get out of the group
1982 - 4th
1986 - 3rd
1990 - didn't qualify
1994 - didn't qualify
1998 - Winners
2002 - didn't get out of the group
2006 - Runners-up
2010 - didn't get out of the group
2014 - Quarter-Finals
2018 - Winners
2022 - At least 4th
And overall results - not a lot between us.
Rank Team Part Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts 1 22 114 76 19 19 237 108 +129 247 2 20 112 68 21 23 232 130 +102 225 3 18 88 48 16 24 152 98 +54 160 4 18 83 45 21 17 128 77 +51 156 5 16 71 38 13 20 131 82 +49 127 6 16 74 32 22 20 104 68 +36 118 7 16 67 31 17 19 108 75 +33 110 8 11 55 30 14 11 96 52 +44 104 9 14 59 25 13 21 89 76 +13 88 10 14 51 21 10 20 69 74 −5 73
- Apr 5, 2014
- 25,940
The David Platt non penalty was a bit controversial. That said, Rijkaard had a perfectly good goal chalked off.
It was an ugly campaign. The defeat in Norway was the low point. That qualification series was easily our worst.