[Football] England World Cup Record

[Mo Gosfield]

As the dust settles on another World Cup departure, the following stats probably suggest that we are ( throughout history ) a good solid international side, usually ranked in the top ten but very rarely finding that special talent that can make the ultimate difference.

22 World Cups......we have played in 16.

Won..................................1
Semi..................................2
Qtr.....................................7
Last 16..............................2
2nd Group stage...........1
Group.................................3

Only failed to get out of the groups on three occasions ( and only once since 1958 )
Often lose to a winner or finalist.
Often fail due to penalty taking.
We were arguably the best team in the world in the 1930's but the FA shunned the first three.
Our failures to qualify in 74..78 and 94 are still headscratchers.
We are perennial quarter final losers.
When the pressure is on our composure often deserts us ( due to lack of winning experience ) and we make critical mistakes.

The great Zico said in 1982 ( best Brazilian side not to win it )......." If you make mistakes against a top side, they will make you pay "

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Yeah, not sure about this bit:

“When the pressure is on our composure often deserts us ( due to lack of winning experience ) and we make critical mistakes.”

Not sure lack of winning experience is relevant to anything. You think players like Bellingham, Foden et al have that in the back of their minds? They wouldn’t be on the pitch if they did. Conversely, in interviews the players talk about how “We are England” (i.e, we should be rated in any tournament)

 

[One Love]

I think a lot is due to us not being able to produce top English managers with either top club experience or top playing experience.

The FA have realised this and were hoping for Lampard and Gerrard but this has gone a bit awry. Mainly I think because we haven't got the foundations that the other big nations have got by virtue of their success. You have to start somewhere though and that is by encouraging top players to become managers.

You only have to compare Southgate's career to Deschamps to realise the gulf between them.

 

[tigertim68]

I think the real problem is most of our players have not got the arrogance or self belief to realise how good they are , unlike The French or the Brazilians , and in a really tight match it makes the difference , it took a French goal to start to play , overall I thought we wer3 the better team on Saturday, but it’s that extra one percent that would make the difference

 

[Eeyore]

As the dust settles on another World Cup departure, the following stats probably suggest that we are ( throughout history ) a good solid international side, usually ranked in the top ten but very rarely finding that special talent that can make the ultimate difference.

22 World Cups......we have played in 16.

Won..................................1
Semi..................................2
Qtr.....................................7
Last 16..............................2
2nd Group stage...........1
Group.................................3

Only failed to get out of the groups on three occasions ( and only once since 1958 )
Often lose to a winner or finalist.
Often fail due to penalty taking.
We were arguably the best team in the world in the 1930's but the FA shunned the first three.
Our failures to qualify in 74..78 and 94 are still headscratchers.
We are perennial quarter final losers.
When the pressure is on our composure often deserts us ( due to lack of winning experience ) and we make critical mistakes.

The great Zico said in 1982 ( best Brazilian side not to win it )......." If you make mistakes against a top side, they will make you pay "

The failure in 1994 was the worst. Mainly because there were two slots and the performances in general were poor.

74 and 78 were more explainable as only one slot was available. 74 all hinged on a defeat against a strong Polish side away from home. The Welsh were pretty strong at that time too. 1978 all hinged on a single defeat in (Naples ?) and the most obviously biased refereeing imaginable in the win at the Wembley. Even as an 8 year old I was wondering what the hell that ref was playing at.

 

[El Presidente]

More like England World Cup broken record.

 

[beorhthelm]

when you look at the many top teams that fall before us each tournement, or fail to get there, i dont know why we agonise so much at getting to quarters so consistently.

 

[Guinness Boy]

when you look at the many top teams that fall before us each tournement, or fail to get there, i dont know why we agonise so much at getting to quarters so consistently.

Exactly. Out at the same stage as Portugal and Brazil and after Spain, Germany and Belgium. Italy didn't even qualify.

Anyone who expects England to win a major international trophy, even if Southgate was replaced by Pep with Potter collecting the bibs, is seriously deluded. We're a quarter-finals ish team, which is why on the pre tournament predictions thread almost everyone predicted England to go out of at the quarter-finals.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

Often lose to a winner or finalist.

Yep we have been knocked out 7 times by a finalist (including when going out in Group stages and the group has been won by an eventual winner/runner up)

We've been knocked out 5 times by the winners (Brazil 58, 62 and 2002, Argentina 86 and West Germany 1990) and twice by the runners up (West Germany 1982 and Croatia 2018).

Our full record is below -

2018 - lost to runners up Croatia in Semi Final
2014 - out in group stage. Costa Rica won the group and went out in QF, runners up Uruguay went out in last 16
2010 - lost in last 16 to 3rd place Germany
2006 - lost in QF to 4th place Portugal
2002 - lost in QF to winners Brazil
1998 - lost in last 16 to Argentina who went out in QF
1994 - Didn't qualify
1990 - Lost in semi final to winners West Germany
1986 - Lost in QF to winners Argentina
1982 - Went out in Second group stage. Group won by West Germany who finished as runners up.
1978 - Didn't qualify
1974 - Didn't qualify
1970 - Went out in QF to 3rd place West Germany.
1966 - WINNERS
1962 - Went out in QF to winners Brazil
1958 - Out in Group stage. Group won by eventual winners Brazil, 2nd Place Soviet Union also qualified and went out in QF.
1954 - out in QF to 4th place Uruguay
1950 - Out in group stage, group won by Spain who finished bottom of the final group stage. Note this is the only World Cup that was decided by a final round robin group rather than a knockout stage so there was no one off final, the last group stage match between Uruguay and Brazil become the defacto final.

 

[AmexRuislip]

 

[Bodian]

Yep we have been knocked out 7 times by a finalist (including when going out in Group stages and the group has been won by an eventual winner/runner up)

We've been knocked out 5 times by the winners (Brazil 58, 62 and 2002, Argentina 86 and West Germany 1990) and twice by the runners up (West Germany 1982 and Croatia 2018).

Our full record is below -

2018 - lost to runners up Croatia in Semi Final
2014 - out in group stage. Costa Rica won the group and went out in QF, runners up Uruguay went out in last 16
2010 - lost in last 16 to 3rd place Germany
2006 - lost in QF to 4th place Portugal
2002 - lost in QF to winners Brazil
1998 - lost in last 16 to Argentina who went out in QF
1994 - Didn't qualify
1990 - Lost in semi final to winners West Germany
1986 - Lost in QF to winners Argentina
1982 - Went out in Second group stage. Group won by West Germany who finished as runners up.
1978 - Didn't qualify
1974 - Didn't qualify
1970 - Went out in QF to 3rd place West Germany.
1966 - WINNERS
1962 - Went out in QF to winners Brazil
1958 - Out in Group stage. Group won by eventual winners Brazil, 2nd Place Soviet Union also qualified and went out in QF.
1954 - out in QF to 4th place Uruguay
1950 - Out in group stage, group won by Spain who finished bottom of the final group stage. Note this is the only World Cup that was decided by a final round robin group rather than a knockout stage so there was no one off final, the last group stage match between Uruguay and Brazil become the defacto final.

And apart from the aberration of 1994, the other two non qualifying years weren't actually too shabby in retrospect:

1974 - second in qualifying group behind Poland - who came third in Finals.
1978 - second in qualifying group behind Italy - who came fourth in the Finals.
1994 - third in qualifying group behind Norway (out in group stages) and Netherlands (QF)

 

[5Ways Gull]

And apart from the aberration of 1994, the other two non qualifying years weren't actually too shabby in retrospect:

1974 - second in qualifying group behind Poland - who came third in Finals.
1978 - second in qualifying group behind Italy - who came fourth in the Finals.
1994 - third in qualifying group behind Norway (out in group stages) and Netherlands (QF)

The 1994 aberration got me thinking. Graham Taylor did amazing things at Watford, a smaller club at the time without any big names (apart from a young John Barnes). Don't really remember his record at Villa, and I've never really seen them as a big club, but he really struggled with the big names when he took the England job. Parallels with GP?

 

[Stephen Seagull]

And apart from the aberration of 1994, the other two non qualifying years weren't actually too shabby in retrospect:

1974 - second in qualifying group behind Poland - who came third in Finals.
1978 - second in qualifying group behind Italy - who came fourth in the Finals.
1994 - third in qualifying group behind Norway (out in group stages) and Netherlands (QF)

I remember the qualifier we played against San Marino. We had to win by +7 to qualify. They'd been conceding loads of goals, it was all there for England to qualify, then we went and conceded one of the fastest goals in history to win the game 7-1 and miss out by 1 goal.

Or I am very much mistaken and have been living a lie, 94 was my first "real" world cup as I was 10 at the time and was too young to really remember Italia 90

 

[5Ways Gull]

I remember the qualifier we played against San Marino. We had to win by +7 to qualify. They'd been conceding loads of goals, it was all there for England to qualify, then we went and conceded one of the fastest goals in history to win the game 7-1 and miss out by 1 goal.

Or I am very much mistaken and have been living a lie, 94 was my first "real" world cup as I was 10 at the time and was too young to really remember Italia 90

That was the campaign where they made the documentary following Taylor through the qualifying group. It was excruciatingly embarrassing, and I felt sorry for him. Phil Neal who was his assistant, also looked a bit daft. That was the first time I realised what a shit job England manager could be.

 

[kojak]

Well at least we've won it
Spare a thought for the great Hungarian side of 1958
Lost the final after leading the Germans 2-0
That's after already beating them in the group stage 8-3!
They lost another final too
And the poor old Dutch

 

[Saladpack Seagull]

Could be worse. After all, what do you call a Dutchman holding the World Cup? The engraver........

 

[ManOfSussex]

I remember the qualifier we played against San Marino. We had to win by +7 to qualify. They'd been conceding loads of goals, it was all there for England to qualify, then we went and conceded one of the fastest goals in history to win the game 7-1 and miss out by 1 goal.

Or I am very much mistaken and have been living a lie, 94 was my first "real" world cup as I was 10 at the time and was too young to really remember Italia 90

We also needed Poland to beat The Netherlands in the final game, as well as beating San Marino by 7.

 

[Brovion]

Exactly. Out at the same stage as Portugal and Brazil and after Spain, Germany and Belgium. Italy didn't even qualify.

Anyone who expects England to win a major international trophy, even if Southgate was replaced by Pep with Potter collecting the bibs, is seriously deluded. We're a quarter-finals ish team, which is why on the pre tournament predictions thread almost everyone predicted England to go out of at the quarter-finals.

Agreed. I do think though there is far more of an acceptance of this now. Only a few years ago a quarter-final defeat to France would have been met with howls of outrage: "We're Ingerland, we invented the game and we won the war, it's a disgrace that we can't beat the bloody Frogs, the players don't care and the manager's useless." I haven't heard that narrative recently

In competitive football we've never been a top footballing nation, as you say a quarter-final, top eight, is about our level. Sometimes we can go further (and of course we did actually win a trophy once), and sometimes we don't get this far. However even with more realistic expectations that win is proving to be more and more of a millstone as the years pass; it's still used as the benchmark whereas it should be seen as an aberration. After all Greece won the Euros once but no one expects them to win tournaments on a regular basis.

 

[El Presidente]

Exactly. Out at the same stage as Portugal and Brazil and after Spain, Germany and Belgium. Italy didn't even qualify.

Anyone who expects England to win a major international trophy, even if Southgate was replaced by Pep with Potter collecting the bibs, is seriously deluded. We're a quarter-finals ish team, which is why on the pre tournament predictions thread almost everyone predicted England to go out of at the quarter-finals.

But surely Johnny Foreigner should roll over and let England win to let Manchester United's fourth best centre half's dream come true?

 

[Bodian]

I remember the qualifier we played against San Marino. We had to win by +7 to qualify. They'd been conceding loads of goals, it was all there for England to qualify, then we went and conceded one of the fastest goals in history to win the game 7-1 and miss out by 1 goal.

Or I am very much mistaken and have been living a lie, 94 was my first "real" world cup as I was 10 at the time and was too young to really remember Italia 90

We were behind the Dutch going into the last game - so had to win by 7 or so to overtake them if they lost to Poland.

Obviously Poland never do us any favours in qualifying groups - and the Dutch beat them quite easily; thus rendering our result meaningless.

The real killer game in that group was when we were 2-0 up against the Dutch at Wembley, only to draw 2-2 thanks to a brilliant Bergkamp goal. Then we lost 2-0 away in a fiesty game.