[Cricket] England vs Australia, Ashes 4th test - Old Trafford

[Sussex Nomad]

Not really, don't think anyone has ripped into the team but have given reasoned thoughts to the failings. It's more the situation than the players. The technique of some is questionable especially the lack of a good defensive technique, but we all know the reason behind that.

The captaincy is more about suitability and I for one have never seen Root as suitable. His game is suffering badly. Some thrive some don't. Overton and Leach showed better technique than many above them, could it be because they've only just come on the side?

Many more questions than answers and mainly needed to be asked of the ECB and the county game. So what do we do? Introduce a 100 ball game.

I respect your views mate, you have posted through this test, it's the others that stick their noses in after a loss.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I respect your views mate, you have posted through this test, it's the others that stick their noses in after a loss.

 

[Triggaaar]

Spirit of the game young Trig, spirit of the game.

Not for me

 

[Guinness Boy]

At least we went down fighting. Losing those 2 wickets last night was one too many.

Two flawed teams have actually played a cracking series. Our injuries to bowlers have been telling and Smith is just on a another level.

England need to rethink their strategy for the test team. Too many batsman in one day mode in the first test. Feels like they’ve finally got used to red ball cricket but this should have been done in county fixtures not Ashes cricket.

We need a decent opener who can play against pace and leave the swinging ball. And then we need to keep Archer fresh and just have him stick it up Smith’s nose.

Long term your strategy is bang on though. England always seems to be good in 1 dayers or good in tests. Never both at the same time.


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[Sussex Nomad]

Not for me

Trig you're a naughty boy

 

[Sussex Nomad]

We need a decent opener who can play against pace and leave the swinging ball. And then we need to keep Archer fresh and just have him stick it up Smith’s nose.

Long term your strategy is bang on though. England always seems to be good in 1 dayers or good in tests. Never both at the same time.


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I don't have a problem with us taking on a particular game in this now jammed up congestion of cricket codes. But one thing we should never do, ever.lose to those ****wits down under. I do feel like we've lost to cheats, that will never pass me by.

 

[um bongo molongo]

We simply don’t have the talent at the moment, especially batting, so think it’s hard to rip in to them. Only Root and Stokes are really test class in the batting. Burn did OK and Denly battled but looked short of the level. I would give Buttler the gloves and bat him at 7. I think he’s a better technical batsman than Bairstow and definitely a better gloveman. I’d also be tempted to try Stokes at 3 in the absence of better alternatives. Technically he’s capable, and he should only be an impact bowler these days as, by his own admission, he lacks control. Tell Stokes to emulate Kallis and Buttler Gilchrist. If he wants it (and I think he does) I’d also give stokes the captaincy.

 

[vegster]

Wouldn’t go down that route. Really hard for an all-rounder. Look at Botham & Flintoff.

I think it’s hard for any player to be made test captain when none have captained their county.

Not sure if Denly has but his 32 now and not nailed down for a place.

Captaincy can make or break you as a player, Botham and Flintoff both nearly ruined themselves trying to win by example alone. Not sure Root has it as captain either, if he was to step down it will almost certainly help his game as his average has dipped in this series and maybe we should open the door for a more enlightened captain ?

Overall, the Aussies are much better than us so we can't complain about the fact they keep the urn. Just sad that we have not been more competitive.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Captaincy can make or break you as a player, Botham and Flintoff both nearly ruined themselves trying to win by example alone. Not sure Root has it as captain either, if he was to step down it will almost certainly help his game as his average has dipped in this series and maybe we should open the door for a more enlightened captain ?

Overall, the Aussies are much better than us so we can't complain about the fact they keep the urn. Just sad that we have not been more competitive.

1. Name a replacement
2. You missed out Kevin Pietersen as a totally inept captain.

 

[DJ NOBO]

Agree with you on Root. He’s no good at it and it affects his batting so nobody wins out of him holding the captaincy.

Disagree with you on there being no obvious choice. I would say the choice couldn’t be any more obvious. There is only one English cricketer with the talent to guarantee a place in the side and the personality required to lead. Time to step up, Ben.

Putting aside all his baggage, it would probably his game like it did flintoff .
I wouldn’t be surprised if There was a short-term appointment if root stood down.
Anderson or Morgan , maybe

 

[dazzer6666]

Better team won........Aussies have a better bowling attack, better fielding and have Smith batting who is light years ahead of anyone on either side.

Root’s captaincy is shite, but we don’t have a ready replacement. Please do not give it to Stokes and **** his game up.

Would like to see Foakes in the side (easily the best keeper we have) - either Buttler or Bairstow to make way for him.

Biggest issue we have is lack of a quality spinner.

 

[vegster]

1. Name a replacement
2. You missed out Kevin Pietersen as a totally inept captain.

Not my job to suggest a replacement captain that you will endeavour to shoot down in flames. A replacement F.E.C should already be on the minds of the selectors be it someone in the England A setup or elsewhere. Either that or we continue with Root and watch his average spiral downwards until he throws the towel in and we have to flap around for a replacement anyway.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Not my job to suggest a replacement captain that you will endeavour to shoot down in flames. A replacement F.E.C should already be on the minds of the selectors be it someone in the England A setup or elsewhere. Either that or we continue with Root and watch his average spiral downwards until he throws the towel in and we have to flap around for a replacement anyway.

Why are you so sure I'd shoot you down in flames? I have no suggestion based on the reason that I think we have a perfectly good captain. JR cannot bat for 11 people or bowl for 11. It isn't down to him to be sacked for selecting the 11. It is down to those 11 to act and react in a match. Jofra looked stroppy in the first innings, that needs to be kicked out of him.

 

[vegster]

Why are you so sure I'd shoot you down in flames? I have no suggestion based on the reason that I think we have a perfectly good captain. JR cannot bat for 11 people or bowl for 11. It isn't down to him to be sacked for selecting the 11. It is down to those 11 to act and react in a match. Jofra looked stroppy in the first innings, that needs to be kicked out of him.

Ok, lets keep Root in the job then and have this conversation at the end of January ?

 

[zefarelly]

we continue with Root and watch his average spiral downwards until he throws the towel in and we have to flap around for a replacement anyway.

Is this not standard practice . . . Grind one down to ruin his 'playing' career, then usher in the next to ruin theirs.

Edit. . . . Captaincy is a different beast.

 

[nickjhs]

This reminds me of when Australia started losing, everyone is shit, players are shit, Cricket Australia is shit, Lehmann is shit, bring back Warne he wasn't shit. Then it really did get shit and we shamed ourselves to the whole cricket world. Since then pretty much same team, but different coach and attitude. Not sure what has gone wrong with the Poms but I'll put a penny to a pound its not just down to the players.

 

[maltaseagull]

This reminds me of when Australia started losing, everyone is shit, players are shit, Cricket Australia is shit, Lehmann is shit, bring back Warne he wasn't shit. Then it really did get shit and we shamed ourselves to the whole cricket world. Since then pretty much same team, but different coach and attitude. Not sure what has gone wrong with the Poms but I'll put a penny to a pound its not just down to the players.

But you're a Pom aren't you?

Once a Pom etc

 

[Bold Seagull]

This reminds me of when Australia started losing, everyone is shit, players are shit, Cricket Australia is shit, Lehmann is shit, bring back Warne he wasn't shit. Then it really did get shit and we shamed ourselves to the whole cricket world. Since then pretty much same team, but different coach and attitude. Not sure what has gone wrong with the Poms but I'll put a penny to a pound its not just down to the players.

You might be right, but on the flip side Australia are dropping Khawaja who has a better average than everyone in the England team apart from Root, and Root is only a shade over 40. The rest of them have poor averages over a period of time, not just everyone is shit, some of them are flattering to deceive. You don't get clean bowled as many times as Bairstow has as well as LBWs and say it's just the coach and attitude. Fundamentally, England's batting in particular has been dire.

I think we matched their bowling other than having little understanding of how to get Smith out, but our batting is just woeful. The decision to take the momentum from the world cup and think you can immediately turn the likes of Roy into a test player is flabbergasting. We have the likes of Pope and Foakes who did really well just cast aside because the WC bubble was bound to transfer into the test team. What an absolute mistake that has been.

Butler / Bairstow together has been an unmitigated disaster for the middle order. Root having to move from no.4 a huge mistake.

I do agree it's not all the players. Ed Smith and James Taylor sat in the stands in their shades like rock stars have a lot to answer for in the selection process over the last year. I have some sympathy for Bayliss who was told to win a world cup and he's done that, but I'm not sure the memo also read 'at the expense of the test side. A indication of the management process is giving the players the decision to rest or not after the world cup. Bairstow decided to play against Ireland, but only because he was terrified of a decent performance from Foakes or Butler with the gloves. That is no way to run a team.

We've got NZ and South Africa now in the winter, followed by Windies and Pakistan next summer. 12 tests to have a real overhaul of what we're doing selection wise, and attitude. That the counties simply don't want to produce or pick any test players anymore doesn't help – who wants to have an opener on their books with only 3 shots when there are lucrative short format tournaments to win? They'll be far better test batsmen in league cricket than in the county game at the moment, because unless they have a range of shots, they'll be picking the guy who has.

This was a really poor Ashes quality wise, Smith aside who was obviously so outstanding as to be almost mystical, the rest on both sides are bang average compared to previous Aussie / English teams. Cummins and Hazlewood have bowled well enough, but have made a meal at times of shifting this shocking England batting.

AND, you and others moaning about England getting that world cup win due to the over throws, what the hell was that ball change yesterday!? Could the umpires have picked a better replacement ball, what an absolute joke that was, Smith's face said it all, it was like Xmas had come early. Totally changed the complexion of the afternoon. Went from ball doing nothing to hooping round corners. Indicative of disgraceful umpiring all series. You simply cannot grab a ball that flippantly at that crucial stage of a match. I don't recall England being able to get a ball changed all series, and Aussies had 2 or 3 swapped.

 

[BensGrandad]

Nothing to lose for the last test so what about the following changes Pope for Roy, Foukes for Bairstow and giving the captaincy to Stokes as a 1 off.

 

[Eeyore]

This reminds me of when Australia started losing, everyone is shit, players are shit, Cricket Australia is shit, Lehmann is shit, bring back Warne he wasn't shit. Then it really did get shit and we shamed ourselves to the whole cricket world. Since then pretty much same team, but different coach and attitude. Not sure what has gone wrong with the Poms but I'll put a penny to a pound its not just down to the players.

It's very straight forward. One day champions and struggling top order techniques in Test cricket. Go figure.