England v Portugal

[Herne Hill Seagull]

He's certainly been the better player this season, hans, on account of Wilshere barely having kicked a ball. Drinkwater, by contrast, has been a mainstay in the title-winning team, playing most weeks and competing against international-standard players regularly. Regardless of your views as to which of them is the better player - I concur, of course, that Drinkwater is limited against Wilshere's abillity - we continue to take players to tournaments who've done absolutely nothing over the preceding months to justifty doing so.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Bloody Hell, that tackle for the red card was mental. Should be a really long ban, doubt it will be though.

Do red cards in friendlies carry over to competitive games?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

He's certainly been the better player this season, hans, on account of Wilshere barely having kicked a ball. Drinkwater, by contrast, has been a mainstay in the title-winning team, playing most weeks and competing against international-standard players regularly. Regardless of your views as to which of them is the better player - I concur, of course, that Drinkwater is limited against Wilshere's abillity - we continue to take players to tournaments who've done absolutely nothing over the preceding months to justifty doing so.

Put it this way - if Wilshere goes, he will very likely start. Drinkwater would only ever be a back up, and may well never get a game - because he isn't actually all that GOOD. He'll only ever take the safe options, and will look a plodder against any good side.

 

[One Love]

I going to presume that you actually meant 'form players' rather than 'best players'. Appreciate all the arguments about Wilshere's lack of games / fitness record, etc, but anyone actually claiming that Drinkwater is the BETTER player, hasn't a clue.

Having suffered through the game until Wilshere was brought on, it was a breath of fresh air seeing someone creative in our midfield.

For me, he has to start until he gets injured again.

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

For me, he has to start until he gets injured again.

Telling words! All we've had to judge him on this season is one and a bit games domestically, and managing to look better than other players for a few minutes in a friendly in which we played a hopelessly poorly conceived system, with several players out of position, against ten men. His presence in the squad, let alone his likelihood to start, sits nicely alongside Rooney's apparent indispensibility as evidence of the dearth of quality in our game at the moment.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Telling words! All we've had to judge him on this season is one and a bit games domestically, and managing to look better than other players for a few minutes in a friendly in which we played a hopelessly poorly conceived system, with several players out of position, against ten men. His presence in the squad, let alone his likelihood to start, sits nicely alongside Rooney's apparent indispensibility as evidence of the dearth of quality in our game at the moment.

No denying that there are only a limited number of quality players available. Leaving one of them out for a 'reliable' but less talented option, isn't going to solve that.

 

[Pavilionaire]

While I agree with your overall thrust, I thought last night and the formation really showed up Vardy's limitations. Hodgson is highly unlikely to drop Rooney, despite a growing demand to do so, but the key is far more to make the most of that Spurs contingent that you identify and I actually think that it's Rooney rather than Vardy that will assist in that, as he is a more multi-dimensional player and will be able to play to the strengths of Alli and Kane. As a consequence, I've shifted my starting line-up, taking into account the formation suggested by Jermaine Jenas (who seems to be one of the most astute of analysts):

----------------- Hart ------------------
Walker -- Cahill -- Smalling -- Rose
---------------- Dier ---------------------
- Henderson - Rooney - Wilshere -
------------- Alli --------------------------
---------------- Kane --------------------

No forward width, limited pace, raiding opposition full backs will have a field day.

 

[Machiavelli]

Bloody Hell, that tackle for the red card was mental. Should be a really long ban, doubt it will be though.

Do red cards in friendlies carry over to competitive games?

Some do, some don't. It's at the discretion of the relevant body (UEFA, I think).

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Some do, some don't. It's at the discretion of the relevant body (UEFA, I think).

Sterling was sent off in the last warm-up game (in Florida?) before the last World Cup, and was NOT suspended for the tournament.

 

[Machiavelli]

No forward width, limited pace, raiding opposition full backs will have a field day.

A brief but damning analysis. I see your point, but last night there was forward width, with extreme rapidity down one flank, and it didn't work. In terms of opposition full-backs, Henderson could cover down one side, and usually Wilshere but also Alli/Rooney could cover down the other.
You can offer your alternative, and your remarks above seem to suggest something like a 4-4-2. I'm aware that that system is enjoying somewhat of a revival, but England have taken that system into too many tournaments with limited success. It'd be interesting to see how many teams play it in the Euros.

 

[Machiavelli]

Sterling was sent off in the last warm-up game (in Florida?) before the last World Cup, and was NOT suspended for the tournament.

I was only repeating what was said during the commentary last night, but you'll note that what you've said doesn't actually contradict what my previous post indicates.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I was only repeating what was said during the commentary last night, but you'll note that what you've said doesn't actually contradict what my previous post indicates.

It wasn't supposed to.

 

[Icy Gull]

Did it get better? I switched over to the rather dark but excellent Peaky Blinders at 9pm.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Did it get better? I switched over to the rather dark but excellent Peaky Blinders at 9pm.

Marginally - when Sterling and Wilshere came on.

 

[Machiavelli]

Marginally - when Sterling and Wilshere came on.

I'd go along with that, and we might even throw Lallana into that equation too.

 

[Pavilionaire]

A brief but damning analysis. I see your point, but last night there was forward width, with extreme rapidity down one flank, and it didn't work. In terms of opposition full-backs, Henderson could cover down one side, and usually Wilshere but also Alli/Rooney could cover down the other.
You can offer your alternative, and your remarks above seem to suggest something like a 4-4-2. I'm aware that that system is enjoying somewhat of a revival, but England have taken that system into too many tournaments with limited success. It'd be interesting to see how many teams play it in the Euros.

The central problem is that Kane has been playing as a lone striker with Alli behind him in the hole. That's great but Rooney is not brilliant out wide and doesn't have pace. Vardy will cause problems with his pace which gets him into good positions against even the best defenders. He doesn't have to be a left winger but he'll make runs and create space. I don't see how Rooney fits in without compromising everyone else.

 

[Machiavelli]

The central problem is that Kane has been playing as a lone striker with Alli behind him in the hole. That's great but Rooney is not brilliant out wide and doesn't have pace. Vardy will cause problems with his pace which gets him into good positions against even the best defenders. He doesn't have to be a left winger but he'll make runs and create space. I don't see how Rooney fits in without compromising everyone else.

I'd like this to be the case because I really like Vardy, and his late rise and Leicester has been the stuff of fairytales, but I just can't see that he is anything else apart from an out-and-out forward. Kane is our number one forward. That means Vardy either plays up front with Kane, or he doesn't; the former option compromises Alli, the latter doesn't.
In short, I think the problem is more with Vardy than Rooney, although I recognise I'm in a minority on this one. I just think Rooney is more versatile, has better vision and passing, and is more multi-dimensional than Vardy.

 

[BensGrandad]

I just hope that neither Henderson or Milner get near the starting XI.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I'd like this to be the case because I really like Vardy, and his late rise and Leicester has been the stuff of fairytales, but I just can't see that he is anything else apart from an out-and-out forward. Kane is our number one forward. That means Vardy either plays up front with Kane, or he doesn't; the former option compromises Alli, the latter doesn't.
In short, I think the problem is more with Vardy than Rooney, although I recognise I'm in a minority on this one. I just think Rooney is more versatile, has better vision and passing, and is more multi-dimensional than Vardy.

I see your point but the bottom line is I can't see us winning this tournament without genuine width and/or genuine pace. Rooney's tournament record over the last decade is not good, and he's not getting any faster.

 

[Machiavelli]

I see your point but the bottom line is I can't see us winning this tournament without genuine width and/or genuine pace. Rooney's tournament record over the last decade is not good, and he's not getting any faster.

England will be doing well to get as far as the semi-finals; I wasn't predicting a victory by any means, merely a team that would give a good showing and set itself up for 2018, which ought to be better.
Rooney was amazing in 2004 until he got injured and has done precisely diddly squat in tournaments subsequently. I do get the clamour against him, and I also accept your point about pace and width, but there's precious little available to Hodgson on that front. He probably should have taken Townsend, but was hampered by Welbeck's injury.