[Football] England v Italy UEFA Euros qualifier 7.45

[Triggaaar]

As for the dark arts, not just Villa but Fulham and Forest at the Amex too. I fecking hate cheating by footballers.

I didn't see dark arts from us. At the start of the game the ref gave a couple of (very) soft free-kicks to Italy, and let a couple of actual fouls on us go, but as the game went on he stopped giving the soft ones. But I didn't see us time waste like Villa or Fulham. First half we were there to play and second half we didn't turn up, but we weren't doing much time wasting.

Kane getting away with crawling back onto the pitch to delay the corner enraged me. Dublin praised him for it too.

I didn't see that as cheating - he wasn't down for long and his aim wasn't to time waste, he just wanted a bit of time to recover so he could help defend the corner.

 

[nicko31]

The hate is so tiring it's almost as bad as Brexit discussions.

People with opinions they've made up their mind on so will shoe-horn whatever happens into something that confirms their bias.

It's tedious.

We are absolutely brilliant first half, fairly awful for most of the second, but the triple sub and game management in the last 15 was spot on.

Good start to the qualifying campaign

Indeed. We were disciplined, it was a bit ugly but we got 3 pts. Southgate wins in Italy, no other England team have done this since 1961

 

[beorhthelm]

I've not had the pleasure of reading the thread but I've got my bingo card ready. I need the following for the full house:

Southgate is clueless
Palace muppet/wanker etc
England are shit
I want Italy to win
Kane is shit
Kane is a cheating bastard
Worst Italian team in history
England were lucky

pretty sure i've seen most of those in the thread. luckiest England manager ever.

 

[Baldseagull]

I didn't see dark arts from us. At the start of the game the ref gave a couple of (very) soft free-kicks to Italy, and let a couple of actual fouls on us go, but as the game went on he stopped giving the soft ones. But I didn't see us time waste like Villa or Fulham. First half we were there to play and second half we didn't turn up, but we weren't doing much time wasting.


I didn't see that as cheating - he wasn't down for long and his aim wasn't to time waste, he just wanted a bit of time to recover so he could help defend the corner.

Because the Ref gave bookings out as soon as we started to time waste, I wish more Refs would.

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

Also it surprises me how many people don't realise that the standard of most teams in the top half of the PL (including us) are better than most international sides bar maybe France and Argentina, who have the benefit of Mbappe and Messi.

Of course if you work full time with a coach, recruitment strategy and quality players, you're likely to play slicker football than a team thrown together for a week or so every 3 months.

Makes me laugh seeing people say things lile 'ffs even Brighton would beat this lot' - well of course we would

 

[Javeaseagull]

Apart from the slightly odd yellows late on I was delighted with the amount of decisions the ref gave us. Allowed for a lot of strong challenges by england to go where as other refs would have called a foul. Didn't punish Rice for the high foot which he quite easily could have done Rightly gave us the pen on review. Punished the Italians for a lot of niggle fouls that they may have expected to get away with at home in front of a naples crowd. I can think of 3 or 4 times where Bellingham was caught on the ball and it was probably a foul on him, and the gave it. They are the usual 60/40 ones where you expect the ref to side with the home team.

In my opinion the walker and Shaw yellows were slightly harsh but not exactly terrible decisions. justified. Walker pretended the ball nearest him wasn't suitable for throwing so went to get another. Booked. Shaw absolutely PLODDED over to the touchline to take the throw in. Yellow. The second yellow was also spot on.
Rice's yellow was wrong.
I'm delighted with the win. I'm pleased for Southgate. Proved me wrong over the choice of Phillips as he often does about many of my initial criticisms of his selections.

I thought the referee was harsh when he booked Walker and Shaw but then noticed England stopped wasting time!

 

[Javeaseagull]

When Shaw was sent off Southgate sent on Trippier. Chilwell was on the bench so I wonder how he felt not getting a game because of England 3rd best right back? Will have done wonders for his confidence, not!

 

[Hotchilidog]

For once I actually sat down and watched the game, and quite frankly it was a disappointment. Whilst undoubtedly it was great a result in an at times but by no means exclusively hostile environment it just wasn't a good game. For me the quality of football was poor and nothing to get the pulses racing at all.

First half I thought England were the better side, second half they just got in the way of a toothless and unimaginative Italian attack. Too much hoofball, and a lot of rolling around going on. It was an unedifying spectacle for me.

As for the main talking points about Southgate and Kane. I can see why Southgate picks the teams he does, he has created almost a club style environment for that group and to change it up this far into his tenure is probably not going to work for a side that is clearly set in its ways. Kane, is a cheat, but for me he is by far and away the best footballer in this side and without doubt a far more complete forward than the likes of Shearer and Lineker. In addition to his forward movement and finishing, Kane also offers a decent tackle and excellent distribution. This is why when I see him committing dangerous fouls and trying to con the ref it infuriates me as is he is a genuinely world class footballer.

I'm glad the England diehards enjoyed the result, but it just left me cold. Southgate will qualify for this tournament and no doubt take us far in Euro 24, but this really should be his Swansong. With the quality of players at his disposal I think the football should be more ambitious but it is just too conservative for me to enjoy. I'll tune in at the weekend and see how we get on against Ukraine though.

My final takeaway from the game was that I thought the ref had a refreshingly good game, it's not often I think that.

 

[Icy Gull]

I didn't see dark arts from us. At the start of the game the ref gave a couple of (very) soft free-kicks to Italy, and let a couple of actual fouls on us go, but as the game went on he stopped giving the soft ones. But I didn't see us time waste like Villa or Fulham. First half we were there to play and second half we didn't turn up, but we weren't doing much time wasting.


I didn't see that as cheating - he wasn't down for long and his aim wasn't to time waste, he just wanted a bit of time to recover so he could help defend the corner.

Beauty of football, we all see things differently. I guess you were happy with Villa and Fulham at the Amex too?

Kane clearly fooled you, that was pathetic from him imo, crawling along like a baby

 

[Napper]

Alot of the neggy posters will probably be the first to abort ship when Brighton turn to crap.

The funny thing is England are not even crap. They are one of the best in the world. Penalty kick away from winning the euros and a penalty kick away from perhaps a different ending to get to a semi. ( no need even mention other achievements of late )

Keep knocking on the door and we'll keep qualifying in style and be knocking on the door for trophies.

It's the years when we were not knocking on the door with unlikeable players which started the haters and ingrained it in our society. Partly due to following what some media has told them ....... for some reason , some people just cant let that go.

These are good times for England . You are missing out with all the mis placed negativity

Get on board , it's a nicer time

 

[Sue1983]

As for the dark arts, not just Villa but Fulham and Forest at the Amex too. I fecking hate cheating by footballers. Kane getting away with crawling back onto the pitch to delay the corner enraged me. Dublin praised him for it too.

This, this and this.

 

[Zeberdi]

As for the dark arts, not just Villa but Fulham and Forest at the Amex too. I fecking hate cheating by footballers. Kane getting away with crawling back onto the pitch to delay the corner enraged me. Dublin praised him for it too.

exactly why I didn’t want Fulham in the SF of the FA Cup - would much rather go out fairly to Manure and by playing our own, enjoyable, flowing football than loosing to cheating, brain injured Fulham.

 

[The Seagull]

Because the manager is an idiot

The result would suggest otherwise.

 

[Dave Fishwick]

we did have some dark arts - Shaw for example sat down on the pitch when he got his red card that wasted a fair few seconds.

The referee however was utterly dire, England have had some terrible refs for as long as I can recall - Cakir, Urs Meier, but last nights tops the lot. Gave our players no protection, it was infuriating, and he was dying to send an England player off by the time it came

 

[Questions]

First since 1961…. So come on.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

Alot of the neggy posters will probably be the first to abort ship when Brighton turn to crap.

The funny thing is England are not even crap. They are one of the best in the world. Penalty kick away from winning the euros and a penalty kick away from perhaps a different ending to get to a semi. ( no need even mention other achievements of late )

Keep knocking on the door and we'll keep qualifying in style and be knocking on the door for trophies.

It's the years when we were not knocking on the door with unlikeable players which started the haters and ingrained it in our society. Partly due to following what some media has told them ....... for some reason , some people just cant let that go.

These are good times for England . You are missing out with all the mis placed negativity

Get on board , it's a nicer time

These are good times for England, despite Southgate, not because of him.

And just imagine how much better these times could have been if he had made a substitution to stop Italy's pressure in the Euro final, instead of freezing and allowing them to score and take it to pens?

How can anyone justify Maguire and Phillips starting last night, when Southgate himself stated that he would only pick players who were in form?

Southgate is a mediocre manager who Premier League clubs outside of the relegation zone wouldn't dream of employing.

 

[Icy Gull]

These are good times for England, despite Southgate, not because of him.

And just imagine how much better these times could have been if he had made a substitution to stop Italy's pressure in the Euro final, instead of freezing and allowing them to score and take it to pens?

How can anyone justify Maguire and Phillips starting last night, when Southgate himself stated that he would only pick players who were in form?

Southgate is a mediocre manager who Premier League clubs outside of the relegation zone wouldn't dream of employing.

It did cross my mind last night that the players could probably manage that game better without the manager, they are all (with a couple of exceptions in current form in the starting 11) excellent players who have been well schooled by their club managers. Southgate gets far too much credit imo as he falls flat on his face when the stakes are raised against good teams with a quality manager in meaningful games.

I’ll feck off from this thread now because my negativity does piss off quite a few posters on this matter I accept

 

[Swansman]

It did cross my mind last night that the players could probably manage that game better without a manager, they are all (with a couple of exceptions in the starting 11) excellent players who have been well schooled by their club managers. Southgate gets far too much credit imo.

I’ll feck off from this thread now because my negativity does piss off quite a few posters on this matter I accept

Both the credit and the criticism is a bit silly.

England share a trait with the 210 other FIFA national teams: when they play against teams with worse footballers, they usually win, and when playing against teams with better footballers, they usually lose. There's not an awful lot a national team manager can do about any of those things.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

exactly why I didn’t want Fulham in the SF of the FA Cup - would much rather go out fairly to Manure and by playing our own, enjoyable, flowing football than loosing to cheating, brain injured Fulham.

Very off topic, but are you home yet?

 

[Icy Gull]

Both the credit and the criticism is a bit silly.

England share a trait with the 210 other FIFA national teams: when they play against teams with worse footballers, they usually win, and when playing against teams with better footballers, they usually lose. There's not an awful lot a national team manager can do about any of those things.

If that were true you’d never get surprise results and who decides if players are better or worse, managers can have a big influence on players, as we Brighton fans know….