[Cricket] *** England v India *** 2nd Spicy Test at Lords 17th -21st SS2 11am

[Bold Seagull]

Cook will not and should not resign. There are too many players that have walked away from England recently and resignation now would be giving in to failure. It shows the character of the man that he wants to tough it out. If the ECB decide to sack him after this series then so be it, but it would be another strange decision to do so considering the KP business.

After this series, England do not play another test match until May next year - that is plenty of time for him and the rest of the senior players who are letting him and themselves down, to recharge and get their mojo back.

Having said all that, I fully expect Cook to make at least one big score in the rest of this series.

Ian Botham resigned as England captain. Mike Brearley was reinstated as captain at the age of 39 in '81.

Despite resigning, I think you'd agree, Beefy's career continued on okay.

Cook resigning would show real character in understanding his own limitations. Continuing on and on through failure after failure doesn't show character, it shows a lack of self awareness, if anything it shows a lack of being brave enough to face up to reality.

Cook is 29 years old. There is no reason over the next 6 or 7 years he cannot go on to be one of the greatest opening batsmen in the history of the game. But he won't do that as captain.

He needs to walk away now. Have a break, get back to his county, rediscover himself. Come back for the test series in the Windies a hungry man with a point to prove.

 

[knocky1]

Ian Botham resigned as England captain. Mike Brearley was reinstated as captain at the age of 39 in '81.

Despite resigning, I think you'd agree, Beefy's career continued on okay.

Cook resigning would show real character in understanding his own limitations. Continuing on and on through failure after failure doesn't show character, it shows a lack of self awareness, if anything it shows a lack of being brave enough to face up to reality.

Cook is 29 years old. There is no reason over the next 6 or 7 years he cannot go on to be one of the greatest opening batsmen in the history of the game. But he won't do that as captain.

He needs to walk away now. Have a break, get back to his county, rediscover himself. Come back for the test series in the Windies a hungry man with a point to prove.

Walking away would be a start.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I am very much with this. It is important to note the break until next May. It is not as if there is a class opening bat ready to take his place or indeed a proven captain who is at or near test class as a player. Robson his fellow opener looks no more secure than he does at the moment.

Yes, that is because we are asking new openers to come in next to a senior opener who is a walking wicket scoring painfully slowly even when he does get into double figures. Alistair Cook is currently partly responsible for the careers of several potential openers who have the world on their shoulders because not only do they have the pressure of trying to keep their place and the pressure of starting their international test careers, they never have a partner there long enough to build a partnership with.

 

[Braggfan]

Cook should step down as Captain but he's too good a player to be left out, and we have so little experience we in the side we can't afford to not to have him. We just have to trust that without the burden of captaincy he will come through his run scoring slump.
In terms of finding a new captain that's the million dollar question. Every name being suggested will have reasons why we shouldn't pick them. But as Pavilionaire mentioned earlier, it's a captaincy crisis and we shouldn't rule anything out in making sure get it right. I genuinely think we should consider it a specialist position at the moment, get someone who's captained before and stick them in the middle order without expectation to score big runs. I would also say that maybe this is also the one position we shouldn't rule out an aging player, the Aussies have shown age doesn't have to be a barrier. It's been mentioned about Rob Key, why not? Can he really be any worse? It sounded odd the first time I heard it, but I'm starting to like it. Maybe we really are that desperate.

 

[keaton]

What has Rob Key ever done as a captain? I think Kent won the T20 once, that's about it.
He averages 20 in Division 2 cricket with one hundred. Cook leads the averages and has two hundred in 5 innings in Div2. How is this an improvement?

 

[spring hall convert]

So we all still think Pietersen was the problem then?

 

[Braggfan]

Well Rob Key has captained Kent over a long period and they do love him over there. He's also captained the England Lions. Like I say in terms of run scoring I don't think the next captain should be expected to contribute that big runs, I just want some to lead the team and who is tactically aware, a "specialist". To be fair Morgan could also do the job if you consider it under those criteria. Morgan hasn't got a great test track record but he has captained before and does have test experience, so he would also fit for me. And a third option who again doesn't have a great test record but has captained, Bopara.

 

[spring hall convert]

What has Rob Key ever done as a captain? I think Kent won the T20 once, that's about it.
He averages 20 in Division 2 cricket with one hundred. Cook leads the averages and has two hundred in 5 innings in Div2. How is this an improvement?

It's not. The way I see it we have a few options

1) Stick with Cook until the end of this series and hope for the best.
2) Morgan, Broad, Bell or Root (all of whom have issues, personally I think that Broad is the only viable option here at the moment. I don't think Bell wants it)
3) Get on the phone and grovel to KP. His form didn't suffer from the captaincy.

Also, it's not just the captain, the coach appears to be totally out of his depth, which I think plenty were saying at the time of his appointment.

 

[Braggfan]

It's not just the captain but I think it's way to early to call time on Moores. The problem is we have a captain who's struggling with the role and side that is struggling to replace the world class players that we've lost. The new players have done well, but losing Trott, KP, Swann who in recent years have been some of the top players in the world, and the spine of our team, is a massive task. It's unfortunate for Cook because if he hadn't lost them all maybe he would be fairing better. If we got rid of Cook and Moores we wouldn't be addressing the issues at all just passing them on to someone else.
Cook needs to step down so he can get back to being one of the best batsman in the world. That would adress two of our problems, a struggling captain and lack of experienced world class players. Once we steady the ship with that we can start thinking about a new spinner.

 

[Pavilionaire]

It is one hell of a difficult problem to manage. I think you have to break it down:

1. Cook needs to be dropped because:

a) The evidence suggests he will not bat his way out of this slump.
b) He is only 30-odd and still has 5 good years to offer England if he gets his act together.

2. We need a new captain. There is no one in the county game who could come in 4 days before the next test and slip straight in to the hot seat. They have to go with Broad, who already has England captaincy experience in the one-day arena.

3. We need a new opening bat. This is probably the hardest bit because Ballance, Root and Ali look settled in their batting order positions, so moving the order around for them looks wrong. There's a case for moving Bell up to opener in the short-term, but I think the case for Lyth is a good one - he's already scored over 1,000 runs this season including 4 centuries, 5 fifties so is in good form and is teammates with Root and Balance so should be able to integrate into the side quickly.

County Cricket Division 1 has to count for something - you can't tell the likes of Alistair Cook to go back to his county, get some runs under his belt and find some form if, at the same time, you ignore that same form of leading run scorers like Lyth.

 

[spring hall convert]

If we got rid of Cook and Moores we wouldn't be addressing the issues at all just passing them on to someone else.

You're right but hand on heart, even when we are past this sticky patch, do you think Moores is the right man? As good a day to day operator he is as coach, I just don't think international cricketers respect him. I don't think they reckon that Moores can improve them.

Flower on the other hand is one of the best Test batsmen of the last 25 years.

 

[spring hall convert]

County Cricket Division 1 has to count for something - you can't tell the likes of Alistair Cook to go back to his county, get some runs under his belt and find some form if, at the same time, you ignore that same form of leading run scorers like Lyth.

I think that's another problem as it goes and a BIG problem. Essex are in Div 2 - Cook scored a lot of runs for them earlier in the year but personally I don't think the standard is good enough.

Perhaps he might fancy a loan to Sussex? Piolet could go in the opposite direction!

 

[Braggfan]

Flower was a great coach, which just highlights what a massive problem we have because he struggled to resolve it. It's crazy to think a year ago with Micky Arthur in charge of Australia we were confident of winning back to back Ashes, some saying winning 10 test (alright we all know that was too much), it was inconcievable to think we'd be in this much of a mess just a year on, and it can't all be down soley to Cook being captain. What's changed?;
- Flowers gone
- Cook and Prior have lost all form
- We've lost Trott, KP and Swann

In regards to Moores, in terms of who was available or willing to take it, I think he's was probably the best of limited options. But who do you get to take it. The fact is he's in now, so we have to give him a chance to rebuild things. Losing the big players is nigh on impossible to do anything about over night, we'll just have to let the new players earn their experience. Really the only thing we can change at the moment is probably the captain and wicket keeper, and decide whether Cook should have a beak from opening. Like you rightly point out though, it's a lot to achieve in four days.

 

[keaton]

I don't think Broad's fit either though. I've seen nothing in Morgan's ODI captaincy that suggests he'd be any good, though he has finally found a bit of form in the CC.

I think they'll keep Cook because it would make Moores look bad if they got rid off him and I never though Moores was the correct decision at all for coach in the first place.

I don't think there'sa simple solution to the whole thing, i'd probably give Cook till the end of the series or call KP and give the job to him. At least that would take the pressure of everyone else

 

[spring hall convert]

I don't think Broad's fit either though.

A fair point, though in his defence, I'm not sure Broad has been fit in years. He seems to do ok playing through it. But it would mean we couldn't rest him even if we wanted to.

 

[Braggfan]

I have a concern with Broad taking over, in so far as one of the criticisms of Cook is that he's not been firm enough with Broad and Anderson and let them dictate a little too much. In the last test our plan of attack when bowling first on a green wicket was to pitch it up and then when it flattened out to bowl it fuller, completely the reverse of what we needed to do. That for me is a sign of really poor decision making, and yes I do aim that at Cook but I feel Broad would have a say in that plan, hence my concern. I think we need to move further away for the next captain.

 

[Pavilionaire]

But the next test starts on Sunday. The players will be checking into the hotel in a day or so and going through their pre-match plans, it is an incredibly tight timescale to appoint someone else from within the squad, let alone outside it. This is where the bigwigs are supposed to earn their money; it's all very well when the team picks itself and is cruising along, now is the time they really need to get their shit together.

 

[Braggfan]

But the next test starts on Sunday. The players will be checking into the hotel in a day or so and going through their pre-match plans, it is an incredibly tight timescale to appoint someone else from within the squad, let alone outside it. This is where the bigwigs are supposed to earn their money; it's all very well when the team picks itself and is cruising along, now is the time they really need to get their shit together.

You're right it's too tight a timeframe. And even though I think Cook should step down, it's probably best done after the series.

 

[spring hall convert]

I have a concern with Broad taking over, in so far as one of the criticisms of Cook is that he's not been firm enough with Broad and Anderson and let them dictate a little too much. In the last test our plan of attack when bowling first on a green wicket was to pitch it up and then when it flattened out to bowl it fuller, completely the reverse of what we needed to do. That for me is a sign of really poor decision making, and yes I do aim that at Cook but I feel Broad would have a say in that plan, hence my concern. I think we need to move further away for the next captain.

I hadn't thought about that but you actually make a really good point. i'm not normally keen on bowlers as captains anyway to be honest.

I think by paucity of other available options Cook probably has to continue. Now I remember when he went through a terrible trott of from before, he sorted it out with Gooch - went back to being very side on, put the cover drive away and limited himself to the straight drive, the cut, the tuck off the pads and the hook/pull. He left the ball well. That's what he needs to refocus on.

The thing is, these Indian seamers aren't that good really. Cook just needs to be more patient and wait for them to bowl in his areas. If that means a 300 ball ton then so be it.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Already this series new boys Ballance, Root and Ali have occupied the crease and scored runs whilst tail-enders Plunkett and Anderson have both bagged half-centuries. This is an ORDINARY Indian bowling attack, notwithstanding the benign batting pitches. God knows why Bell has missed out.