England v France

[Icy Gull]

Screwed until the Italian Clown goes

So wrong, screwed until we learn how to play football in a continental style with players that are actually capable of it, but keep clutching those straws though.

 

[Marshy]

So wrong, screwed until we learn how to play football in a continental style with players that are actually capable of it, but keep clutching those straws though.

If your happy to drift along with more of the same shit until the FA think they can afford to sack the dead man walking the happy days, I hope you enjoyed last nights England performance because you will be seeing it a lot more with this man in charge.

 

[Marshy]

I nearly turned off when i saw Jagielka trot out at right back...just unbelievable

Then he admitted himself he had not trained all week !

 

[Icy Gull]

If your happy to drift along with more of the same shit until the FA think they can afford to sack the dead man walking the happy days, I hope you enjoyed last nights England performance because you will be seeing it a lot more with this man in charge.

Not happy but I accept it and expect very little from England because we are technically 2nd division on the world stage. Sacking the manager is the tip of the iceberg.

You, however, are the one who is going to be disappointed if you think changing the manager will make us world beaters or even challengers. We don't have the players..

 

[Digweeds Trousers]

Interesting debate in the pub last night as my friends (who support Premiership clubs Spurs, Arsenal et al) were spouting on about the need for a proper academy and getting hold of kids at an early age.....the usual.

Except now, I have a slightly different opinion. I know it is all relative but frankly I could not have imagined 15 months ago that El-Abd would be playing the confident, passing game that he is today.

That poses an interesting question. Poyet has come in and got hold of a number of seasoned lower league english style players. Not at the age of 13. At 23, 24 and even 27.

And within a few months has encouraged them to totally re-thnk the way they approach the game and what constitutes a mindset of how to break down players.

let's be honest - its taken a while to get some supporters to understand it - the philosophy of moving an opposition team around the pitch before decisively opening them up with a killer pass.

I know that Trevor Brooking and many others have understandably talked about the need for a re-structure of the game at a grass-roots level but this made me think abou the Capello - and actually a lot of other managers who are supposedly the best at what they do.

If poyet can do what he has done at brighton with players with what must be an inferior level of ability to the likes of gerrard and anyone in that team last night - why cant an international manager come in and do what poyet has done for Brighton?

Change the mindset and philosophy of how to approach a game?

 

[Marshy]

Icy even you must except we are going absolutely no where under this manager, therefore a change has to be made.

We cant fill Wembley under this man, the empty seats last night would go a long way to paying him off.
Its only going to get worse, no one wants to play for him.

 

[Marshy]

Interesting debate in the pub last night as my friends (who support Premiership clubs Spurs, Arsenal et al) were spouting on about the need for a proper academy and getting hold of kids at an early age.....the usual.

Except now, I have a slightly different opinion. I know it is all relative but frankly I could not have imagined 15 months ago that El-Abd would be playing the confident, passing game that he is today.

That poses an interesting question. Poyet has come in and got hold of a number of seasoned lower league english style players. Not at the age of 13. At 23, 24 and even 27.

And within a few months has encouraged them to totally re-thnk the way they approach the game and what constitutes a mindset of how to break down players.

let's be honest - its taken a while to get some supporters to understand it - the philosophy of moving an opposition team around the pitch before decisively opening them up with a killer pass.

I know that Trevor Brooking and many others have understandably talked about the need for a re-structure of the game at a grass-roots level but this made me think abou the Capello - and actually a lot of other managers who are supposedly the best at what they do.

If poyet can do what he has done at brighton with players with what must be an inferior level of ability to the likes of gerrard and anyone in that team last night - why cant an international manager come in and do what poyet has done for Brighton?

Change the mindset and philosophy of how to approach a game?

Amen to that, Spot on.

 

[Icy Gull]

Icy even you must except we are going absolutely no where under this manager, therefore a change has to be made.

We cant fill Wembley under this man, the empty seats last night would go a long way to paying him off.
Its only going to get worse, no one wants to play for him.

I have blamed the manager too many times in my life and now I really do accept our ineptness as a lack of ability

 

[sten_super]

If poyet can do what he has done at brighton with players with what must be an inferior level of ability to the likes of gerrard and anyone in that team last night - why cant an international manager come in and do what poyet has done for Brighton?

Change the mindset and philosophy of how to approach a game?

It's a decent idea, but the problem of course is time that the manager gets with the players. It took Gus at least 3 months (and realistically it wasn't until the start of this season, so more like 9 months) to get the team playing his way, and that was with him seeing them every day (except for 2 months in the summer). The England manager has the week before the game (of which there are at most 6 a year), and anything up to one month before a major tournament.

 

[Mackenzie]

Interesting debate in the pub last night as my friends (who support Premiership clubs Spurs, Arsenal et al) were spouting on about the need for a proper academy and getting hold of kids at an early age.....the usual.

Except now, I have a slightly different opinion. I know it is all relative but frankly I could not have imagined 15 months ago that El-Abd would be playing the confident, passing game that he is today.

That poses an interesting question. Poyet has come in and got hold of a number of seasoned lower league english style players. Not at the age of 13. At 23, 24 and even 27.

And within a few months has encouraged them to totally re-thnk the way they approach the game and what constitutes a mindset of how to break down players.

let's be honest - its taken a while to get some supporters to understand it - the philosophy of moving an opposition team around the pitch before decisively opening them up with a killer pass.

I know that Trevor Brooking and many others have understandably talked about the need for a re-structure of the game at a grass-roots level but this made me think abou the Capello - and actually a lot of other managers who are supposedly the best at what they do.

If poyet can do what he has done at brighton with players with what must be an inferior level of ability to the likes of gerrard and anyone in that team last night - why cant an international manager come in and do what poyet has done for Brighton?

Change the mindset and philosophy of how to approach a game?

Yep.

 

[Mr Banana]

That poses an interesting question. Poyet has come in and got hold of a number of seasoned lower league english style players. Not at the age of 13. At 23, 24 and even 27.

Poyet reckons the cut-off point for changing players is 25.

 

[Digweeds Trousers]

It's a decent idea, but the problem of course is time that the manager gets with the players. It took Gus at least 3 months (and realistically it wasn't until the start of this season, so more like 9 months) to get the team playing his way, and that was with him seeing them every day (except for 2 months in the summer). The England manager has the week before the game (of which there are at most 6 a year), and anything up to one month before a major tournament.

good point - in fact thinking about what you have said here perhpas the key is not academy's - its the control that clubs have over the national team.

The FA are clearly inept - thats old ground - and as a Scotsman it doesnt really bother me about the quality of our national side. It is poor - and always will be. It would be like worrying about the weather at home. Pointless.

It just makes me wonder that although poyet has time with the players - how can he turn El-Abd into the player we see today?

If you ahve showed me this 18 months ago i would have told you that you would need 300 years to turn him into a cultured centre-half - not three months.

Another thank you to the Premiership - another nail into the national game in this country.

Oh the irony. Sky and The Premiership think that they have revelutionised the game in England.

In fact there is a pretty strong case that their money has taken it back 70 years.

 

[Digweeds Trousers]

Poyet reckons the cut-off point for changing players is 25.

so you're trying to tell me at 39 that I'm f***ed?

 

[mcshane in the 79th]

Interesting debate in the pub last night as my friends (who support Premiership clubs Spurs, Arsenal et al) were spouting on about the need for a proper academy and getting hold of kids at an early age.....the usual.

Except now, I have a slightly different opinion. I know it is all relative but frankly I could not have imagined 15 months ago that El-Abd would be playing the confident, passing game that he is today.

That poses an interesting question. Poyet has come in and got hold of a number of seasoned lower league english style players. Not at the age of 13. At 23, 24 and even 27.

And within a few months has encouraged them to totally re-thnk the way they approach the game and what constitutes a mindset of how to break down players.

let's be honest - its taken a while to get some supporters to understand it - the philosophy of moving an opposition team around the pitch before decisively opening them up with a killer pass.

I know that Trevor Brooking and many others have understandably talked about the need for a re-structure of the game at a grass-roots level but this made me think abou the Capello - and actually a lot of other managers who are supposedly the best at what they do.

If poyet can do what he has done at brighton with players with what must be an inferior level of ability to the likes of gerrard and anyone in that team last night - why cant an international manager come in and do what poyet has done for Brighton?

Change the mindset and philosophy of how to approach a game?

That's a great post, but I don't think an International Manager can possibly achieve that with the limited time he has with the players and with the constraints applied on the small number fo Friendly matches i.e. players not being able to play more than 45 minutes or something like that.

It's up to the club managers and coaches to get players playing like that, and this Country doesn't have the wealth of qualified coaches or staff that other Major nations have. I remember seeing the stat about the number of Qualified Coaches in England compared to France, Spain etc and it was a lot less than half I believe. Until that is solved and the players are being taught that mindset of how to play football day in day out, we will always struggle.

 

[Mr Banana]

so you're trying to tell me at 39 that I'm f***ed?

Try being 26. I'm still hopeful Gus will save me, or at least let me fellate him.

 

[The Large One]

Not happy but I accept it and expect very little from England because we are technically 2nd division on the world stage. Sacking the manager is the tip of the iceberg.

You, however, are the one who is going to be disappointed if you think changing the manager will make us world beaters or even challengers. We don't have the players..

100% this.

 

[The Large One]

Icy even you must except we are going absolutely no where under this manager, therefore a change has to be made.

We cant fill Wembley under this man, the empty seats last night would go a long way to paying him off.
Its only going to get worse, no one wants to play for him.

It's facile thinking in the extreme to think that ONE PERSON is responsible for the various ills surrounding the England team.

 

[Digweeds Trousers]

That's a great post, but I don't think an International Manager can possibly achieve that with the limited time he has with the players and with the constraints applied on the small number fo Friendly matches i.e. players not being able to play more than 45 minutes or something like that.

It's up to the club managers and coaches to get players playing like that, and this Country doesn't have the wealth of qualified coaches or staff that other Major nations have. I remember seeing the stat about the number of Qualified Coaches in England compared to France, Spain etc and it was a lot less than half I believe. Until that is solved and the players are being taught that mindset of how to play football day in day out, we will always struggle.

Again - absolutely take your point. But the issue for me is that Poyet would seem to say in a couple of interviews that its not games that give him the ability to change players.

Its not a 45 minute work out in a friendly game - its qwhat they do on the training ground.

I'm not stating a fact here - I'm not a football maanger and I certainly am not 'in the know'.

It just appears that Poyet had a relatively immedaite effect' - it's not as if we got pissed all over for 12 games and then gradually got better.

we went from a dreaful lower-table side to a competent mid-table side in the space of about 4-6 weeks (in my opinion).

Now he has taken them a step further. It surely must be to do with the coaching.

so the issue to me is how much influence can a Coach of the national side have over the squad - given that these 'players' are training every day of their lives.

Yes the Premier league managers will be forcing their culture and style on their teams but a national coach must durely be able to explain to players how he wants them to train, approach games, and put this, or elements of this into their every day training.

I dont know. Perhpas I'm just being very naive.

 

[bathseagull]

Interesting debate in the pub last night as my friends (who support Premiership clubs Spurs, Arsenal et al) were spouting on about the need for a proper academy and getting hold of kids at an early age.....the usual.

Except now, I have a slightly different opinion. I know it is all relative but frankly I could not have imagined 15 months ago that El-Abd would be playing the confident, passing game that he is today.

That poses an interesting question. Poyet has come in and got hold of a number of seasoned lower league english style players. Not at the age of 13. At 23, 24 and even 27.

And within a few months has encouraged them to totally re-thnk the way they approach the game and what constitutes a mindset of how to break down players.

let's be honest - its taken a while to get some supporters to understand it - the philosophy of moving an opposition team around the pitch before decisively opening them up with a killer pass.

I know that Trevor Brooking and many others have understandably talked about the need for a re-structure of the game at a grass-roots level but this made me think abou the Capello - and actually a lot of other managers who are supposedly the best at what they do.

If poyet can do what he has done at brighton with players with what must be an inferior level of ability to the likes of gerrard and anyone in that team last night - why cant an international manager come in and do what poyet has done for Brighton?

Change the mindset and philosophy of how to approach a game?

Absolutely - but the major difference is that Poyet works with his players full time while Capello sees them for a few days before each match. He doesn't have the time to go through different styles/patterns of play and to change their mindset and philosophy.

For me the future success of the national side is directly linked to the relationship between the FA and the clubs. Clubs need to release the players more regularly and for longer throughout the season to afford Capello (or whoever) the time to impose his philosophy on the players. Problem is this might mean major English players missing games for their clubs and the current FA Board are unlikely to ever sanction it as they have vested interests with those same clubs.

We simply can't expect to come together, train for a few days and go out and match the likes of Spain, Germany, Brazil etc. As has been proven, technique and comfort on/mastery of the ball will always win out over physicality and directness.

So there.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

There are obvious basic things. Last night we tried passing it around at the back - got pressed and Lescott passed it back to Foster who hoofed it and we lost possession again.

Lescott gave Foster no angle and no-one made themselves available, and anyway it seems that Foster was all too ready to give it the big heave-ho. These are the cream of the crop.

If Greer/El-Abd/Painter/Calderon/Ankergren get it - surely that lot can.