[Cricket] England v Australia- 5th Test- Sydney 3rd-7th January 2018

[Audax]

If you thought the Ashes was a bit one-sided, there's a cracking test in Cape Town right now. India have bowled themselves back in the game by dismissing South Africa for 130, leaving 208 to win.

Saffers still favourites but if Kohli gets going, who knows?

Not sure I'd place South Africa as favourites here. They're down a bowler - Steyn's injured.

We were the victims of 3 poors. Poor batting from the top order, Poor bowling from the mainstream bowlers and poor captaincy from an inexperienced captain. End result was a justifiable 4-0 beating, we were lucky it wasnt 5-0

Disagree on the poor captaincy. He did alright given he was dealt a bad hand by the selectors. It's difficult to prove yourself as a quality captain if the team you've been given lacks the options to try different things to force a result to go your way. If he'd been poor, you *would* have been pumped 5-0, and you wouldn't have put the Aussies under pressure in any of the games. Which, BTW, you did in every single test. Unlike last time England played an Ashes series in Australia, this team didn't fold and give up once the 3-0 happened. They kept pegging away at it and fighting, and that, for me, is the influence of a decent captain.

That is simply not true.

As poor as England were for the most part, they were the better team in Melbourne, and were never at any stage behind in that Test.

They were the better team in Melbourne on a dead pitch that the Aussies initially still wanted to try to force a result on. Even then, it was entirely down to the efforts of Cook that you got as far ahead on the first innings as you did. We dropped him twice during that innings, had Smith held either chance it could have been a very different game on the final day. Anyway, once the Aussies knew they couldn't win it they completely shut England out of the game and it became abundantly clear you didn't have the bowlers to put us under any sustained pressure.

 

[Gwylan]

Not sure I'd place South Africa as favourites here. They're down a bowler - Steyn's injured.

I hadn't realised that - that will make it a bit closer.

Still fancy SA to win ... just

 

[Exile]

The sarcastic answer would be back home to England and beating an overseas touring side on green wickets in May and June (which of course will simply paper over the cracks).

Has beating an overseas touring side, on hard fast pitches, with the Kookaburra ball, merely 'papered over the cracks' for an Australia side incapable of showing the same form in other conditions, then?

A home win in home conditions, is surely perfectly valid for England, as it is every other side?

 

[Pevenseagull]

England claimed a grand total of 15 second innings wickets.
FFS

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Has beating an overseas touring side, on hard fast pitches, with the Kookaburra ball, merely 'papered over the cracks' for an Australia side incapable of showing the same form in other conditions, then?

A home win in home conditions, is surely perfectly valid for England, as it is every other side?

That's a very good point. I think there is definitely an element of this, as I mentioned yesterday. However, that aside I think there ARE still issues to be resolved in the England talent pool.

1. Players getting themselves 'in' and then not converting starts into big scores. Too much of a 1 day mind set?
2. Samey bowling attack. Other than in early season English conditions, our bowling attack lacks variety. We are behind many test sides in terms of raw pace and spin bowling options, so that when we get a flat track (wherever it may be) we struggle to take enough wickets.

I think these issue will persist irrespective of where we play, but of course at home they are less apparent.

Australia also have issues playing away, against a seaming ball or on a spinning wicket in India, and they aren't world beaters.

 

[Pevenseagull]

Australia only had 4 wicket takers.
Admittedly they all took over 20 wickets at under 30.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Australia only had 4 wicket takers.
Admittedly they all took over 20 wickets at under 30.

Quality over quantity?

The Australia bowling stats are incredibly consistent.

Starc has 22 wickets at 23.54
Cummins has 23 wickets at 24.65
Hazlewood has 21 wickets at 25.90 &
Lyon has 21 wickets at 29.23

For England

Anderson has 17 wickets at 27.82
Overton has 6 wickets at 37.66
Root has 1 wicket at 39.00
Broad has 11 wickets at 47.72
Woakes has 10 wickets at 49.50
Curran has 2 @ 100
Moeen has 5 @ 115
Ball has 4 @ 115
Crane has 1 @ 193

 

[Papa Lazarou]

The batting is equally shit

England

Root 378 runs @ 47.25
Cook 376 @ 47.00
Malan 383 @ 42.55
Bairstow 306 @ 34.00
Curran 66 @ 33.00

etc

Aussies

Smith 687 @ 137.40
M Marsh 320 @ 106.66
S Marsh 445 @ 74.16
Warner 441 @ 63
Paine 192 @ 48
Khwaja 333 @ 47.57
Cummins 166 @ 41.5

 

[spring hall convert]

poor captaincy from an inexperienced captain

I think this is just flat wrong. Root was let down badly by his bowlers but even so he was inventive in the field, he was always lively and motivational. He was calm, positive and level headed with the press. Once the series was lost they didn't give up like Vaughan's lot in 06/07 or Cook's in 13/14.

It was far from perfect but the captaincy was very far down the list of things to be critical about on this tour.

 

[spring hall convert]

George Dobell gets it pretty much right here - http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/22000001/tea-sympathy-suffice-england-face-another-drubbing

 

[Pantani]

We were the victims of 3 poors. Poor batting from the top order, Poor bowling from the mainstream bowlers and poor captaincy from an inexperienced captain. End result was a justifiable 4-0 beating, we were lucky it wasnt 5-0


Where do we go from here to rectify the problems?

Don't think Root captained poorly on the pitch. He rotated his bowlers well and came up with some innovative fields, it is just that his bowlers were shit, and his team only had one batsman who knew how to stay in (Malan, if you take away cook's one innings).

Off the field, yes, Root came out with some weird statements, but what was he supposed to do at 2-0 down? Imagine the TMS interview "Frankly we are ****ed, no chance of coming back from 2-0 down might as well pack up and come home". That would be the rational thing to say...

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

I do agree about the variety of the attack, picking four fast medium right-armers is never going to help but I think that another problem is that England DON'T pick the best bowlers: they pick decent bowlers who can bat a bit. I don't believe that Woakes is the third best seamer in England, but he gets in because he can hold a bat. And Mooen is never the best spinner - both the Somerset lads, Leach and Bess are better - but he's a good bat, so gets in.

Australia's approach is simple: the six best batsman, a keeper who can bat and the four best bowlers - it hasn't served them badly over the years.

Ah yes, the Tuffers and Monty school of batting still struggling for customers - can't carry bowlers in the modern game - not unless your top six can put on 500+ on a regular basis [England's can't] so we need contributions from the bowling unit.

 

[Gwylan]

Ah yes, the Tuffers and Monty school of batting still struggling for customers - can't carry bowlers in the modern game - not unless your top six can put on 500+ on a regular basis [England's can't] so we need contributions from the bowling unit.

... which is why we failed to take 20 wickets in a single match in a five match series.

It doesn't matter if you score 500 runs in an innings, you're not going to win games unless you can consistently bowl sides out.

 

[Simster]

What annoys me more than the gutless nature of this series defeat is Joe Root's (and others) insistence throughout the tour that we were at any point competitive. We've been absolutely slaughtered and nearly all our players have been complete turd.

 

[Pevenseagull]

... which is why we failed to take 20 wickets in a single match in a five match series.

It doesn't matter if you score 500 runs in an innings, you're not going to win games unless you can consistently bowl sides out.

I repeat, 15 second innings wickets in 5 games.

 

[BensGrandad]

Don't think Root captained poorly on the pitch. He rotated his bowlers well and came up with some innovative fields, it is just that his bowlers were shit, and his team only had one batsman who knew how to stay in (Malan, if you take away cook's one innings).

Off the field, yes, Root came out with some weird statements, but what was he supposed to do at 2-0 down? Imagine the TMS interview "Frankly we are ****ed, no chance of coming back from 2-0 down might as well pack up and come home". That would be the rational thing to say...

I think that his field placings left a lot to be desired especially when we have been in a position to take charge Memory is not my best point now but wasnt it the time after lunch on 2nd or 3rd day in the 2nd test when we let them off the hook when they were struggling having lost 4 quick wickets for less than 100 and Smith went on to score a big score. I may have the days and test mixed up but I am sure most will remember the occasion

 

[Pavilionaire]

I thought James Anderson's comments were very revealing this morning, where he said unlike previous tours where we'd lost it doesn't feel as though there needs to be root and branch changes made to this England side, he thinks there are positives and that we have been competitive in patches.

Does that mean the relationship between the coaches and players is too cosy?

Cook and Root underperformed. Moeen Ali's had a mare, both with his bowling and getting out to Nathan Lyon 7 times. There was a complete lack of pace in the bowling department too, and not picking Plunkett was a big mistake.

The bottom line is England couldn't get Smith out, they couldn't deal with the Aussie pace attack or Nathan Lyon's superior spin.

 

[Simster]

I thought James Anderson's comments were very revealing this morning, where he said unlike previous tours where we'd lost it doesn't feel as though there needs to be root and branch changes made to this England side, he thinks there are positives and that we have been competitive in patches.

Does that mean the relationship between the coaches and players is too cosy?

Cook and Root underperformed. Moeen Ali's had a mare, both with his bowling and getting out to Nathan Lyon 7 times. There was a complete lack of pace in the bowling department too, and not picking Plunkett was a big mistake.

The bottom line is England couldn't get Smith out, they couldn't deal with the Aussie pace attack or Nathan Lyon's superior spin.

Well I'd say the bottom line is that we were outplayed in every department. There isn't a single area where we've competed well. That's why I'm so irritated with our key players talking up their performances.

 

[Simster]

On the subject of test matches, what a game this is between South Africa and India...

 

[Gwylan]

The bottom line is England couldn't get Smith out ...

Not just Smith. Mitchell Marsh had an average of about 20 before this series, he had an average of 110 from this three games. And his brother was made to look like a world beater