England v Australia - 1st Test Trent Bridge

[OzMike]

So Broad not walking ultimately won England the test match?

I think that if the correct decision had been given as far as Trott was concerned we may have had 2 x centurions in the innings.
Swings and roundabouts eh.

 

[Simster]

Crazy talk. Morgan's recent test record is woeful & who would you promote to open? I'd be pretty suprised to see Morgan back in the Test side anytime soon without some serious work on his technique. I'd have Compton & Taylor ahead of him in the pecking order.

Indeed. Totally chucklesome idea, dropping Root for Morgan.


I'm really not convinced by the idea of dropping Finn. There really isn't much between Finn, Bres, Onions and Tremlett and I don't actually care which of them got the nod, but once Finn got it for that test, he should be given a run of at least one more match, maybe more. And the next one up is his home ground. If he's going to play well anywhere, it's Lords.

 

[keaton]

Indeed. Totally chucklesome idea, dropping Root for Morgan.


I'm really not convinced by the idea of dropping Finn. There really isn't much between Finn, Bres, Onions and Tremlett and I don't actually care which of them got the nod, but once Finn got it for that test, he should be given a run of at least one more match, maybe more. And the next one up is his home ground. If he's going to play well anywhere, it's Lords.

Bresnan and Onions know how to bowl an over. If Finn goes for a boundary on the first or second ball of an over, he seems to just disintegrate now and panic

 

[Simster]

Bresnan and Onions know how to bowl an over. If Finn goes for a boundary on the first or second ball of an over, he seems to just disintegrate now and panic

I won't disagree with that, but Bresnan goes through *very* long spells without looking like taking a wicket, and Onions can look totally powder puff on wickets that are too flat. They all have their flaws I'm afraid. The difference is that Finn is in possession of the shirt, showed a little bit in this test that he can rattle batsmen (he was on a hattrick in the first innings, and then bowled an excellent *very short* spell early in the second innings, and crucially the next test is on his home bowling track.

 

[Simster]

Unchanged squad for next test:

England squad: Alastair Cook, James Anderson, Jonny Bairstow, Ian Bell, Tim Bresnan, Stuart Broad, Steven Finn, Graham Onions, Kevin Pietersen, Matt Prior, Joe Root, Graeme Swann, Jonathan Trott.

So that is just confirmation that if Finn does lose his place, it will be to Bres or Onions. Or would they pick another seamer at Bairstow's expense?

 

[Brovion]

Bresnan and Onions know how to bowl an over. If Finn goes for a boundary on the first or second ball of an over, he seems to just disintegrate now and panic

That's undoubtedly a valid point, but one of the things I do like about 'modern' England is they no longer have a revolving door selection policy. One bad game no longer sees you discarded. Finn maybe just 'needs a hug' (copyright M Adams) and told to concentrate on bowling fast and that he'll be used in VERY short spells.

 

[keaton]

That's undoubtedly a valid point, but one of the things I do like about 'modern' England is they no longer have a revolving door selection policy. One bad game no longer sees you discarded. Finn maybe just 'needs a hug' (copyright M Adams) and told to concentrate on bowling fast and that he'll be used in VERY short spells.

Oh I don't think we should go back to those days, i just think Finn's been poor a while and needs sort himself out in a less pressured environment

 

[spring hall convert]

So Broad not walking ultimately won England the test match?

I think that if the correct decision had been given as far as Trott was concerned we may have had 2 x centurions in the innings.
Swings and roundabouts eh.

Oh I absolutely agree with you, at this level you let the umpire make the decision. It makes me laugh all the club cricketers going on about walking. I play league club cricket, I've always walked due to the fact the one time I didn't, I could barely function through the guilt. The key differences are a) The result, in the grand scheme of things isn't important b) that is the clubs culture c) We don't have professional umpires or DRS d) My livelyhood didn't depend on it e) In the main I felt this is what other teams did. Review those 5 points if you are Stuart Broad.

Had he walked, we may well have ended up losing the test match.

On another note (and it's very rarely I have to say this nowadays) the overall standard of umpiring, inclusive of the 3rd umpire was woeful. Let's hope that corrects itself for the rest of the series.

 

[spring hall convert]

Bresnan and Onions know how to bowl an over. If Finn goes for a boundary on the first or second ball of an over, he seems to just disintegrate now and panic

I'm not suprised, I think there is a lot of pressure on Finn to be a bowler that he isn't. He is not a dry up the runs and pressurize the opposition type bowler, he's a strike bowler. He'll go for runs but take wickets, much the same as Steyn.

If England can't afford an expensive bowler in their 4 man attack then stop playing Finn.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Oh I absolutely agree with you, at this level you let the umpire make the decision. It makes me laugh all the club cricketers going on about walking. I play league club cricket, I've always walked due to the fact the one time I didn't, I could barely function through the guilt. The key differences are a) The result, in the grand scheme of things isn't important b) that is the clubs culture c) We don't have professional umpires or DRS d) My livelyhood didn't depend on it e) In the main I felt this is what other teams did. Review those 5 points if you are Stuart Broad.

Had he walked, we may well have ended up losing the test match.

On another note (and it's very rarely I have to say this nowadays) the overall standard of umpiring, inclusive of the 3rd umpire was woeful. Let's hope that corrects itself for the rest of the series.

Probably already been mentioned, but I've not been back through the whole thread, but Haddin didn't walk - he must have felt that nick (in fact he watched the ball back to Prior as though he'd hit it). It's not Broads job to umpire, it was an umpiring mistake not a players'.

 

[joeinbrighton]

So that is just confirmation that if Finn does lose his place, it will be to Bres or Onions. Or would they pick another seamer at Bairstow's expense?

No chance of another seamer playing in place of Bairstow. To do that, it would mean Matt Prior moving up to bat at #6, and given his recent batting form for England, it would seem unlikely they would be considering promoting him in the order.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The only change I would make is Eion Morgan for Joe Root, talk about rabbit in the headlights, his nervous antics at the crease were making me dizzy and he always looked suspect.

If I was Australian, and had an influence on England selection, I'd probably make this suggestion too!

 

[Bold Seagull]

In all the criticism of Finn, you have to remember that when Jimmy was at Finn's level of experience, he could be equally as bad, if not worse in those early stages of his career. It's easy to make a knee jerk reaction, but Finn has all the makings of a cracking Test match bowler. Hope England stick with him for now and show him a bit of loyalty.

 

[keaton]

Probably already been mentioned, but I've not been back through the whole thread, but Haddin didn't walk - he must have felt that nick (in fact he watched the ball back to Prior as though he'd hit it). It's not Broads job to umpire, it was an umpiring mistake not a players'.

When England made the review for the last wicket, it looked a lot like Haddin knew he'd nicked it and was hoping for the best

 

[joeinbrighton]

The only change I would make is Eion Morgan for Joe Root, talk about rabbit in the headlights, his nervous antics at the crease were making me dizzy and he always looked suspect.

The only issue is where Joe Root is batting. It might be too early in his test career to be exposing him to the new ball. He has performed well for England in India batting further down the order and as he is a good player of spin, that might be where to keep him for the time being.

 

[keaton]

In all the criticism of Finn, you have to remember that when Jimmy was at Finn's level of experience, he could be equally as bad, if not worse in those early stages of his career. It's easy to make a knee jerk reaction, but Finn has all the makings of a cracking Test match bowler. Hope England stick with him for now and show him a bit of loyalty.

Didn't England drop Anderson and not play him for a few years while he worked on his game and came back stonger?

 

[spring hall convert]

In all the criticism of Finn, you have to remember that when Jimmy was at Finn's level of experience, he could be equally as bad, if not worse in those early stages of his career. It's easy to make a knee jerk reaction, but Finn has all the makings of a cracking Test match bowler. Hope England stick with him for now and show him a bit of loyalty.

Really good point. I'm sure if you compared averages at this stage of development, Finn would have the better record.

 

[joeinbrighton]

In all the criticism of Finn, you have to remember that when Jimmy was at Finn's level of experience, he could be equally as bad, if not worse in those early stages of his career. It's easy to make a knee jerk reaction, but Finn has all the makings of a cracking Test match bowler. Hope England stick with him for now and show him a bit of loyalty.

It's a fair point. I think he will play the next match because he would be playing on his home ground and will find conditions more to his liking.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

When England made the review for the last wicket, it looked a lot like Haddin knew he'd nicked it and was hoping for the best

Very little on hotspot. As was said the "spot" looked like it was there before the ball, but difficult to tell. The sound - and later Snicko - showed it was definite, but I would have thought Haddin would have felt it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Didn't England drop Anderson and not play him for a few years while he worked on his game and came back stonger?

Well, it wasn't that simple, he was in and out of the side, Fletcher nearly destroyed him to be honest, he didn't actually come back stronger, after Fletcher left he just developed within the team and slowly grew in confidence. You could easily say he is the bowler he is today in spite of England rather than because of them.