[Football] England Squad

[Guinness Boy]

Latest squad - thoughts?

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Centre back wise it's predictable. Called it on two other threads. Slabhead probably has pictures of Southgate doing something unspeakable with Marmite. As for the others Stones will start, Walker or James will play RCB if we're using a three to free up a right wing back spot and Tomori, Dier and Guehi are all ahead of Dunk and Webster because they're either better or better suited.

Doesn't matter who I would. I'm not the coach.

Southgate will take Walker as a RB/CB option, Stones, Maguire (yes, really), White and a left footer, which will probably depend on who hits form. Maybe Tomori too.

I'd certainly take Tomori and Dier ahead of Webster and Dunk.

Edit - probably sacrilege on NSC but Guehi's probably ahead of them too.

As for up front, about time Sancho was dropped and excited for Toney to be included. Hope he gets some game time. Would love to see him in Qatar.

Midfield looks thin. Presumably this is back to a 4-2-3-1 or back three with two work horse CMs flanked by wingbacks.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Another player who deserves a mention is Anthony Gordon. The lad really looks like he has got something about him, a fearless streak, leadership qualities, a talismanic player. Yet he is left out while Grealish - who has been mailing it in for over a season - is included.

Bottom line - there's too many players not in form / not starting regularly in this squad.

 

[Kosh]

Predictably awful - I do wonder if Southgate would carry on picking the same squad even if certain players had been retired for 5 years... pathetic.

 

[Marshy]

I'm lost for words with some of these selections. Baffling.

 

[Stato]

If we test Southgate's famous claim to pick by form by looking at WhoScored.com player rankings for the season so far:

Same three keepers as Pickford's injured;

At LB - Targett, Toffolo, Sessegnon, Burn, Mitchell, Henry before Chillwell. Those plus Cresswell and Ward ahead of Shaw;
At RB - James & Trippier, but ahead of Alexander Arnold, Solly March and ahead of Walker, Loftus-Cheek, Walker-Peters, and Ward;
At CB - Other than the already picked at RB, James, Dier is the highest rated in his squad, but he's behind Gomez, Burn, Tarkowski, Kilman, Mee and Kelly. Stones is further behind Holgate and Webster and Coady behind them and Mings too. Guehi and Maguire are the 22nd and 24th best rated CBs in the league. Tomori, like Bellingham and Abraham later, is not rated as not playing in the EPL.

CMs are not far off, although both Harvey Elliott and Josh Da Silva are rated higher than Rice.
On the wing - Saka, Foden and Grealish are second third and fourth behind Jack Harrison. Bowen is well down the list 15th out of 18.
CF - Toney is top rated, then the omitted Rashford, then Kane. Bowen has played a couple of times here, but is beind Solanke, Welbeck, Sterling and Wilson.

So, if Southgate's claim to be picking players on form is tested with this metric, most of the squad would pass. The big failures would be Bowen, Shaw at LB: Matt Targett has a right to wonder why he's been over looked for someone so out of form; and of course Southgate's blind spot - the centre backs: Coady, and even more so Guehi and Maguire should be nowhere near the squad. Apart from Tomori, he has picked seven players who could play at centre back and only James makes it by merit on this year's form. His seven should be James, Gomez, Burn, Tarkowski, Kilman, Mee and Lloyd Kelly. (Dunk is way down the list, though still above Guehi & Maguire, because of a stinking rating for the Fulham game. Without that he'd be just above Stones.

We know that Southgate will stick with players like Shaw and Maguire who have consistently played better for him than they have for their clubs. Guehi is the real mystery. His rating for this season is poor in a team that is doing okay. His form last year didn't really suggest him as a player worth picking either. If he's looking at potential then Chalobah at Chelsea rated considerably higher and was presumably the reason why Guehi was sold to Palace. You do wonder if he's picking a young Palace ball playing centre back in the same way that Alan Sugar always picks cockney market traders for the later stages of The Apprentice.

 

[Crouch End Seagull]

Am I imagining it or is it true that whenever Southgate sees a Brighton game it coincides with us playing poorly in defence? Wonder if this is a factor in his Seagull-phobia.

Meanwhile Mitoma's in Japan squad.

 

[kentgully]

Am I imagining it or is it true that whenever Southgate sees a Brighton game it coincides with us playing poorly in defence? Wonder if this is a factor in his Seagull-phobia.

Meanwhile Mitoma's in Japan squad.

No... he's just an arse.

 

[Guinness Boy]

If we test Southgate's famous claim to pick by form by looking at WhoScored.com player rankings for the season so far:

Same three keepers as Pickford's injured;

At LB - Targett, Toffolo, Sessegnon, Burn, Mitchell, Henry before Chillwell. Those plus Cresswell and Ward ahead of Shaw;
At RB - James & Trippier, but ahead of Alexander Arnold, Solly March and ahead of Walker, Loftus-Cheek, Walker-Peters, and Ward;
At CB - Other than the already picked at RB, James, Dier is the highest rated in his squad, but he's behind Gomez, Burn, Tarkowski, Kilman, Mee and Kelly. Stones is further behind Holgate and Webster and Coady behind them and Mings too. Guehi and Maguire are the 22nd and 24th best rated CBs in the league. Tomori, like Bellingham and Abraham later, is not rated as not playing in the EPL.

CMs are not far off, although both Harvey Elliott and Josh Da Silva are rated higher than Rice.
On the wing - Saka, Foden and Grealish are second third and fourth behind Jack Harrison. Bowen is well down the list 15th out of 18.
CF - Toney is top rated, then the omitted Rashford, then Kane. Bowen has played a couple of times here, but is beind Solanke, Welbeck, Sterling and Wilson.

So, if Southgate's claim to be picking players on form is tested with this metric, most of the squad would pass. The big failures would be Bowen, Shaw at LB: Matt Targett has a right to wonder why he's been over looked for someone so out of form; and of course Southgate's blind spot - the centre backs: Coady, and even more so Guehi and Maguire should be nowhere near the squad. Apart from Tomori, he has picked seven players who could play at centre back and only James makes it by merit on this year's form. His seven should be James, Gomez, Burn, Tarkowski, Kilman, Mee and Lloyd Kelly. (Dunk is way down the list, though still above Guehi & Maguire, because of a stinking rating for the Fulham game. Without that he'd be just above Stones.

We know that Southgate will stick with players like Shaw and Maguire who have consistently played better for him than they have for their clubs. Guehi is the real mystery. His rating for this season is poor in a team that is doing okay. His form last year didn't really suggest him as a player worth picking either. If he's looking at potential then Chalobah at Chelsea rated considerably higher and was presumably the reason why Guehi was sold to Palace. You do wonder if he's picking a young Palace ball playing centre back in the same way that Alan Sugar always picks cockney market traders for the later stages of The Apprentice.

The "picks on form" is a total myth and I only see it repeated these days on here. He may have said it once but that's without getting to a semi final and final of a major tournament. He'll pick mostly the players he knows plus an odd one on form just to continue the myth (e.g. Toney). Guehi gets in because he's quick and can play LCB even though he's right footed. Dunk's lack of pace and propensity to have a real stinker now and again (e.g. Fulham) will have been noted on his one England camp, and I think the footage of him getting mugged off in training might be a kind of trail initiation.

In many ways our players suffer from Potter's tactical flexibility as Southgate uses specialist who can cover if needs be. Is March a better RWB than Walker or Trippier, a better LWB than Trippier or Chilwell, a better AM than Mount? No. But he can play in all those places. If England really need an attacking player who can drop into wingback we've got Saka. The 23 man squad thing means you can have two for every specialist position rather than resorting to Brighton's total football, which, when you get as little time with the squad as he does and when you (normally) get results playing 4-2-3-1 isn't surprising.

Great whoscored analysis as befits your user name but let's stop pretending we pick on form. We don't.

 

[AstroSloth]

Good to see Toney in. Well deserved and a better back up option to Kane than the others.

Maguire deserves to keep his place as never let England down but constantly baffled by the other defensive picks. Coady and Tomori not fit to lace Dunk or Websters boots.

At least Tyrone Mings has been left out I suppose.

Man City buying one of England's bestperformers in Phillips and Grealish and hardly playing them is either a scandal or a gift. They'll either be so off the pace by Qatar they will be useless or so fresh they are brilliant. Can't decide which!

Tomori is absolutely quality and 100% deserves to be in the squad, he should probably be starting too.

 

[Da Man Clay]

Tomori is absolutely quality and 100% deserves to be in the squad, he should probably be starting too.

This. He’s well ahead of Dunk and Webster.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The most ridiculous omission of all is surely Ben White.

Has been in decent form all season, in the side topping the league, and superb from a squad perspective, as he is effectively a first choice option at CB / RCB or RB, and an emergency option at DM.

 

[RandyWanger]

With this squad, Southgate will be getting sacked around the same time as Potter. Potter would have made about 3 million from cfc before landing his dream job. Genius.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

12 defenders. Seems a lot.

At this point I'm coming round to the idea (promulgated by no one but myself) that Southgate is an NSC lurker and is picking shed loads of defenders, none of whom have any connection to the albion, just to piss off a certain section of the NSC user base who still seem stunned when Dunk/Webster don't make the squad.

 

[Swansman]

Luke Shaw played two games, against Brighton and Brentford, then got put on the bench and United won their next four.

Not all his fault but he is a garbage. Solly March (who hasn't played a lot of LWB this season but still would be a better option) and Rico Henry both shit on him 8 days a week. Not to mention Matt Targett or Dan Burn.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The most ridiculous omission of all is surely Ben White.

Has been in decent form all season, in the side topping the league, and superb from a squad perspective, as he is effectively a first choice option at CB / RCB or RB, and an emergency option at DM.

Yep, I just had to look again. I'd kinda assumed he'd be in.

I do slightly go back to my point about March. Is White a better RCB / RB than James or Walker? No, not for me. Is he a better CDM than Phillips or Rice. Nope. So, in theory he loses on specialty. But having said that, I think he's a better centre back and better footballer than Maguire and a better option as a squad player for England than Guehi. Unlike Maguire he's been playing regular football too. He's probably better than Coady for me too.

You have to wonder......

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

He’s basically said ‘it doesn’t matter how well you play for your club you’re not getting picked. I’m sticking to what I know regardless of how shit their form is’. Incompetence of the highest order. Fast becoming footballs equivalent of ‘Tim, nice but dim’


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[Seagull58]

12 defenders. Seems a lot.

At this point I'm coming round to the idea (promulgated by no one but myself) that Southgate is an NSC lurker and is picking shed loads of defenders, none of whom have any connection to the albion, just to piss off a certain section of the NSC user base who still seem stunned when Dunk/Webster don't make the squad.

.
12 defenders isn't a lot when you have to play a back 5, and 2 DMs to protect the back 5 and the soft centre in particular. Still, many of the squad will be nice and fresh because they're getting little or no game time with their clubs.
The argument that you keep paying the same players because they haven't let you down is just hogwash. Pep has won the league in 4 of the past 5 seasons but he still brings in new players to improve the squad (or not, in the case of Grealish and Phillips)

 

[kentgully]

Not bovvered...

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

The "picks on form" is a total myth and I only see it repeated these days on here. He may have said it once but that's without getting to a semi final and final of a major tournament. He'll pick mostly the players he knows plus an odd one on form just to continue the myth (e.g. Toney). Guehi gets in because he's quick and can play LCB even though he's right footed. Dunk's lack of pace and propensity to have a real stinker now and again (e.g. Fulham) will have been noted on his one England camp, and I think the footage of him getting mugged off in training might be a kind of trail initiation.

In many ways our players suffer from Potter's tactical flexibility as Southgate uses specialist who can cover if needs be. Is March a better RWB than Walker or Trippier, a better LWB than Trippier or Chilwell, a better AM than Mount? No. But he can play in all those places. If England really need an attacking player who can drop into wingback we've got Saka. The 23 man squad thing means you can have two for every specialist position rather than resorting to Brighton's total football, which, when you get as little time with the squad as he does and when you (normally) get results playing 4-2-3-1 isn't surprising.

Great whoscored analysis as befits your user name but let's stop pretending we pick on form. We don't.

Got a semi and a final and failed due to his tactics

 

[dejavuatbtn]

I’m not sure if Southgate is a genius for making silk purses out of sows’ ears or he is just damn lucky. I think his luck is about to change because when I see the names of the squad that he’s picked they’d struggle in the PL, let alone win a World Cup.