[Football] England squad announcement - Lewis Dunk RECALLED!

[Guinness Boy]

Firstly you've excluded Croatia, again, and Italy which you stated have "far better players" than England "and that's a fact" - your opinion is not a fact.

Secondly you've previously said Kane and Rice could get in, and I think that Walker and Bellingham could too.
Plus, Stones and possibly either Saka or Foden could be in that team so I would assume 4 to 6 players - are they really "far better" than us?

You haven’t read my post properly. I dealt with two different outcomes in two successive tournaments. Go back and read it again. At no point do I say Italy had better players. Also at no point did I mention Croatia. That was only you. I didn’t even cover that tournament. No Croatia didn’t have better players - just like Sweden and Columbia? What’s your point? We lost 5-1 to a terrible Everton team thanks to our tactics. Should De Zerbi go or should we celebrate the overall achievement of his season?

You’d play Foden instead of Mbappe or Dembele? You’ve just lost all credibility

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Bellingham would have got in, and possibly Kane for Giroud and Kyle walker at RB, but that's it. There was no doubt that man-for-man they had a better team than us that night.

Rice is better than Rabiot
Bellingham is better than Tchoumeni
Saka better than either wingers during that period
Kane is better than Gioud
Hugo was on a massive downward spiral so him and Pickford on par
Walker of course
Foden v Griezmann is pretty equal, prob side with Foden

We sat back, when we actually attacked they struggled to deal with us.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Rice is better than Rabiot
Bellingham is better than Tchoumeni
Saka better than either wingers during that period
Kane is better than Gioud
Hugo was on a massive downward spiral so him and Pickford on par
Walker of course
Foden v Griezmann is pretty equal, prob side with Foden

We sat back, when we actually attacked they struggled to deal with us.

Foden doesn’t play 10, Bellingham is playing further up, Pickford is awful, Saka isn’t better than Mbappe FFS, that’s laughable

 

[Krafty]

You haven’t read my post properly. I dealt with two different outcomes in two successive tournaments. Go back and read it again. At no point do I say Italy had better players...

...I’m making a factual point that we were (a penalty kick away from a trophy and) beaten by a side with far better players in our last two tournaments [Italy/France].

What’s your point?

Firstly, I don't agree with your opinion (once again, I reiterate it is NOT a fact) that Italy and France have far better players - you really discredit the talented individuals that this England squad have to offer, which is yet to shine through under Southgate.
Also, why would you want to keep Southgate and when does it reach the point that he'll must leave, if he doesn't succeed in the upcoming EUROs will his time be up? I would like to hear your view first.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Firstly, I don't agree with your opinion (once again, I reiterate it is NOT a fact) that Italy and France have far better players.
Also, why would you want to keep Southgate and when does it reach the point that he'll must leave, if he doesn't succeed in the upcoming EUROs will his time be up? I would like to hear your view first.

I never said Italy did. For the last time please try and understand clauses and sequences in writing. Did we lose on penalties to France? No, we didn’t.

I want to keep Southgate until the end of Euro 24 unless a far better candidate emerges. Currently there isn’t one

You’ve also edited my quote. Don’t do that again.

 

[S'hampton Seagull]

I never said Italy did. For the last time please try and understand clauses and sequences in writing. Did we lose on penalties to France? No, we didn’t.

I want to keep Southgate until the end of Euro 24 unless a far better candidate emerges. Currently there isn’t one

You’ve also edited my quote. Don’t do that again.

I would suggest anyone who doesn't think Maguire and Henderson should be in the starting XI

 

[Krafty]

I never said Italy did. For the last time please try and understand clauses and sequences in writing. Did we lose on penalties to France? No, we didn’t.

I want to keep Southgate until the end of Euro 24 unless a far better candidate emerges. Currently there isn’t one

I genuinely don't know what you mean by "we were beaten by a side with far better players in our last two tournaments" if you aren't saying that Italy and France had better players than us in those two games, maybe it's my tiredness.
Nevertheless, you don't think Potter would be an adequate replacement considering Southgate's inept coaching methods?
And plus, in your opinion, is there any English coach who is a better candidate than Southgate?

EDIT: I put the relevant phrases, of the quote, in BOLD to refer to the points I'm addressing and keep other parts of the quote in (brackets)

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

You can’t half tell you’re a teacher sometimes. Are you this precious with everyone or just on the internet?

Here we go again. Why do you get aggressive when people disagree with you ? Why do you criticize my job ? Do I now get the rest of the WhatsApp group one by one dropping in for a dig like last time ?

 

[Guinness Boy]

I genuinely don't know what you mean by "we were beaten by a side with far better players in our last two tournaments" if you aren't saying that Italy and France had better players than us in those two games, maybe it's my tiredness.
Nevertheless, you don't think Potter would be an adequate replacement considering Southgate's inept coaching methods?

I’m quite clearly saying we lost on penalties to Italy, making the point that we were one kick away from winning the tournament, the point to which I originally replied. In the next tournament we were beaten by a better side. Not on penalties.

No one’s offered Potter the job and he hasn’t put his name up for it. But no, I’ve no desire to see an England manager who isn’t respected by senior players, plays Raheem Sterling at wing back and can’t score.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Foden doesn’t play 10, Bellingham is playing further up, Pickford is awful, Saka isn’t better than Mbappe FFS, that’s laughable

Pickford is awful, yet made less mistake than Hugo last season?

Saka was absolutely on fire at that point of the season.

Foden isnt a 10 yet city do play him there

Bellingham spends most the game sitting for England.

Lets also not forget when chasing the game he brought on Mount before Grealish and Rasford, two massively in form players.

Almost like Southgate is wasting the talent we have

 

[Krafty]

I’m quite clearly saying we lost on penalties to Italy, making the point that we were one kick away from winning the tournament, the point to which I originally replied. In the next tournament we were beaten by a better side. Not on penalties.

Fair enough, the structure of the sentence can be interpreted in different ways so I was initially surprised by that statement - even so, I still think that France don't have far better players than England but we can agree to disagree.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Pickford is awful, yet made less mistake than Hugo last season?

Saka was absolutely on fire at that point of the season.

Foden isnt a 10 yet city do play him there

Bellingham spends most the game sitting for England.

Lets also not forget when chasing the game he brought on Mount before Grealish and Rasford, two massively in form players.

Almost like Southgate is wasting the talent we have

Most of that is subjective, some of it I agree with.

But offer 100 club coaches Mbappe or Saka and 99 of them are starting Mbappe, even Spurs.

 

[Krafty]

What’s your point?

My point is that Southgate is the problem.
If we want to win any international tournament then we must sack the manager because he is simply inept at coaching.
We have an amazing array of creative players but many fans have decided not to watch them because the tactics on display are always predictable and utterly depressing.
The selection of players is typically wrong, and his influence on the pitch does not have that "killer instinct" that the top managers have.
I feel like change is needed, it may not work at first, but I want to be entertained by England because we have such an amazing generation of talent which is currently being wasted.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I genuinely don't know what you mean by "we were beaten by a side with far better players in our last two tournaments" if you aren't saying that Italy and France had better players than us in those two games, maybe it's my tiredness.
Nevertheless, you don't think Potter would be an adequate replacement considering Southgate's inept coaching methods?
And plus, in your opinion, is there any English coach who is a better candidate than Southgate?

EDIT: I put the relevant phrases, of the quote, in BOLD to refer to the points I'm addressing and keep other parts of the quote in (brackets)

What are Southgate's coaching methods and why are they inept?

Or are you backfilling what you think of them based on your disapproval of England's matchday performances?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

My point is that Southgate is the problem.
If we want to win any international tournament then we must sack the manager because he is simply inept at coaching.
We have an amazing array of creative players but many fans have decided not to watch them because the tactics on display are always predictable and utterly depressing.
The selection of players is typically wrong, and his influence on the pitch does not have that "killer instinct" that the top managers have.
I feel like change is needed, it may not work at first, but I want to be entertained by England because we have such an amazing generation of talent which is currently being wasted.

Whether you assessment is correct or not, who do you replace him with (that wouldn't be a glorious punt, or someone who would laugh at the offer of the job)?

 

[Guinness Boy]

My point is that Southgate is the problem.
If we want to win any international tournament then we must sack the manager because he is simply inept at coaching.
We have an amazing array of creative players but many fans have decided not to watch them because the tactics on display are always predictable and utterly depressing.
The selection of players is typically wrong, and his influence on the pitch does not have that "killer instinct" that the top managers have.
I feel like change is needed, it may not work at first, but I want to be entertained by England because we have such an amazing generation of talent which is currently being wasted.

I respectfully disagree with your first paragraph, but you know that. I agree that many fans are turning off. Many aren’t. We’re still selling out away allocations and tournaments so it depends on whether you put weight on bums on seats in grounds or social media posts.

What’s your starting XI? As I said in the thread somewhere else, all our good players play in the same position. We have one good centre back and no good keepers, which is why we play conservatively. You certainly can’t play all of Bellingham, Saka, Rashford, Grealish, Foden, Mount and Sterling, nor can you play Walker, James, Trippier and TAA - you have to chose one.

That’s not to say I agree with him all the time. Selecting Henderson yesterday was criminal, so are a lot of his substitutions, so was his Mings love in, But I don’t see Potter as any better.

 

[Horses Arse]

Southgate's record is second only to Sir Alf Ramsey's. That's fact.

People's arguments against him would be much better served if they acknowledged and accepted that. They would be even better served if they didn't try and beat him with the we should be winning trophies with the squad he has and he's only beaten weak teams, he loses to every good team he plays.

Guess what? We never win trophies and we've failed miserably with better players, better teams and better squads. And beating weak teams and losing to better ones is also what we've done for as long as I can remember. Apart from 2006 - 2016 where we couldn't even beat the shit teams.

Yes, southgate has his failings - strange squad selections, conservative team selections, tactically limited - and yes, if he was more tactically astute and brave he might have achieved more than he has but what he has achieved is something that no one else other than Ramsey has so he's doing something right.

Admit that, acknowledge it and then talk about his failings and what he could do better. Or, alternatively, just talk embarrassing bollocks.

There are statics and then there's reality. Reality is that Southgate has had great draws and has not suffered the terrible luck and horrendous ref decisions that the likes of venebles and Robson suffered. Southgate had a fantastic set of players, extraordinarily kind draws and all the luck we've missed out on sine 66. What's he done with it? Failed. He's an incompetent manager, hopeless, out of his depth. Nice man, but shit at his job. Get rid.

If you are happy with that then good for you. I hope that acceptance of mediocrity serves you well.

 

[Horses Arse]

Wise words

Words certainly.

 

[Horses Arse]

What are Southgate's coaching methods and why are they inept?

Or are you backfilling what you think of them based on your disapproval of England's matchday performances?

Based on every managerial job he's had he's an awful coach. He's consistent certainly.

Not one PL team would want him, for good reason too. Unless it's for the U21s I guess

 

[BadFish]

Southgate has got his team deeper into tournaments that his more qualified predecessors.

For me, the quarters are par for an England team and he is doing better than that. This means he has been a success (unless you foolishly only define success as winning).

Done enough for another crack at it in 2024. IMHO like.