[Football] England squad announcement - Lewis Dunk RECALLED!

[um bongo molongo]

I want to defend Southgate for the reasons many on here are. His results have been (relatively) good and he’s clearly good at the emotional side of it. But there’s no doubt he’s tactically limited. A better tactical manager might have beaten both Croatia and Italy. Foden must start, and Henderson should be nowhere near the starting eleven.

 

[GT49er]

Potter will not make a good national coach. He thrives on bringing through and developing youth. If he was good with developed world class talent he would have succeeded at Chelsea and we know how that went.

"He thrives on bringing through and developing youth" ........................... who, exactly? A few games for Alzate, a few less for Zeqiri (usually out of position at LWB), and rather too many for Connolly when it was glaringly obvious he needed to go out on loan (there are records of me saying this at the time on NSC if you know how to do searches better than me!). ...................so, who did he he actually bring through and develop? At Brighton anyway.

Also his tactical style takes a lot of drilling of players which isn't possible with the limited time afforded to a national manager.

You might have a point there. Might be the same difficuty for, say, RDZ, Pep, Klopp and a few others too.

 

[hart's shirt]

Yeah that's what we do every tournament with Southgate. Generally beat teams we're supposed to and lose convincingly against teams equal or slightly better than us.

Italy in the Euros Final was probably the most disappointing of all. And not the outcome of the penalties themselves for me.

Despite being 1-0 up after 2 minutes, England finished extra-time with 35% possession and 2 shots total on target including the goal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51198762

Southgate learned nothing from the 2018 WC Semi-Final where having gone a goal up, we tried to protect the lead and lost control.

With an abundance of riches in attacking midfield, a defensively-minded approach isn't going to get the best from what we have.

 

[WhingForPresident]

Italy in the Euros Final was probably the most disappointing of all. And not the penalties themselves for me.

Despite being 1-0 up after 2 minutes, England finished extra-time with 35% possession and 2 shots total on target including the goal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51198762

Southgate learned nothing from the 2018 Croatia WC Semi-Final where having gone a goal up, we sat back and lost control.

With an abundance of riches in attacking midfield, a defensively-minded approach isn't going to get the best from what we have.

He should've walked after that game, and most would have given him credit for the achievement etc and he might have even got a PL job eventually.

We have regressed so much in the following two years, it's actually painful to watch. We are at risk of losing another 'golden generation' of talent with nothing to show for it, and it's all down to his godawful tactics. I wouldn't even say the cohesiveness that he initially brought into the team is still there anymore- most of our players look like they despise playing for England again, and those performing well for their clubs put in absolute stinkers tonight (Saka, Bellingham and Rice for example. Rashford was also appalling when he came on but not sure he really counts as 'in-form').

He offers absolutely nothing anymore. Slow, dull, caveman football with no identity or strategy. If he had any decency he would just step aside.

 

[Triggaaar]

One man's negative and odd is another's realistic and understandable. But it's always been a game of opinions.

With a FIFA ranking at the time of 5, England beat Iran (20) and Wales (19), but failed to beat the United States (16).

We could easily have been a goal or two down against Senegal (18), but turned it round after a nervy first 25-30 minutes.

France (4) were the first and only side we played ranked above us as well as being the holders. And England lost.

So I'm still sticking with the view that it wasn't really good. It wasn't a disaster and certainly no disgrace, but no more than predicted.

We didn't lose to lower ranked teams, but didn't beat the only team we played that was higher. Par for the course.

That's a decent summary, although I'd say getting to the quarter final was easy, and France was a 50:50 game - par for the course would be winning half of those, but we lost, so I see it as worse than par.

That said, I thought we were a bit unlucky to lose to France, who should have had one of their goals disallowed. Kane's second penalty wouldn't have then had the same pressure.

 

[Triggaaar]

Yeah that's what we do every tournament with Southgate. Generally beat teams we're supposed to and lose convincingly against teams equal or slightly better than us.

To be fair, that's what we've done since 66 (although we don't usually lose convincingly, it's normally a close game)

 

[hart's shirt]

I wouldn't even say the cohesiveness that he initially brought into the team is still there anymore- most of our players look like they despise playing for England again, and those performing well for their clubs put in absolute stinkers tonight (Saka, Bellingham and Rice for example. Rashford was also appalling when he came on but not sure he really counts as 'in-form').

I agree with everything you've written, but the quoted bit did make me especially think.

Even the very best managers have sell-by dates when what they bring to the team has been absorbed. It's either then reinvention and/or refining the existing, or repetition and decline. Familiarity breeds contempt. Southgate may well be liked by the players as being someone that will always have their best interests at heart on and off the pitch - a welcome holistic approach that should be both appreciated and applauded.

But do they respect him as a tactician with formations suited to the players and as a manager that can improve both them and the national side? How does he compare with the best club managers in the game at the moment? Would his managerial expertise be highly prized by Premier League chairmen who are looking for a great coach and not just a safe pair of hands that can be relied upon to say the right things and present a good image? I'm really not so sure there.

All speculation of course, but for me he should've gone after Qatar. He's already brought everything he's got to the table and his man-management skills have been implemented. Time for that new broom to sweep clean.

 

[SUIYHP]

I agree with everything you've written, but the quoted bit did make me especially think.

Even the very best managers have sell-by dates when what they bring to the team has been absorbed. It's either then reinvention and/or refining the existing, or repetition and decline. Familiarity breeds contempt. Southgate may well be liked by the players as being someone that will always have their best interests at heart on and off the pitch - a welcome holistic approach that should be both appreciated and applauded.

But do they respect him as a tactician with formations suited to the players and as a manager that can improve both them and the national side? How does he compare with the best club managers in the game at the moment? Would his managerial expertise be highly prized by Premier League chairmen who are looking for a great coach and not just a safe pair of hands that can be relied upon to say the right things and present a good image? I'm really not so sure there.

All speculation of course, but for me he should've gone after Qatar. He's already brought everything he's got to the table and his man-management skills have been implemented. Time for that new broom to sweep clean.

Southgate’s biggest achievement has been turning an absolutely depressingly shit side into a more competent but wholly mediocre one. Tactically the team needs progression and evolution, but unfortunately I have zero confidence that the FA have thought about Southgate’s succession carefully.

Potter will probably end up being the next manager because he is the obvious choice. I can write the script of how that will go already. It’s boring, it’s predictable and worst of all its safe.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Italy in the Euros Final was probably the most disappointing of all. And not the outcome of the penalties themselves for me.

Despite being 1-0 up after 2 minutes, England finished extra-time with 35% possession and 2 shots total on target including the goal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51198762

Southgate learned nothing from the 2018 WC Semi-Final where having gone a goal up, we tried to protect the lead and lost control.

With an abundance of riches in attacking midfield, a defensively-minded approach isn't going to get the best from what we have.

Southgate isn't as good as RDZ, and England are not as good as any of the EPL top 8. That includes us. Fact.

 

[spence]

I fully expect him to play in the following pointless friendly coming up. Like the testimonial

 

[Hamilton]

Stones will be fit again next time round. Then he and Maguire will fill the slots.

Lewis will never get another call up. It’s disgraceful, but there you go.

 

[BN41Albion]

Assuming that multi-multi millionaire PL managers wouldn’t touch the job, instead loving their £15m a year and weekly fame, who would they recruit? The FA might not trust an overseas coach again.

Potter doesn’t deserve it imho.

Fair point, and totally agree that Potter doesn't deserve it. Southgate's strangling of what could/should be a very exciting team and system is so frustrating, though. But I wouldnt trust any of the English managers currently in the game to get the best out of this squad. Possibly Howe?

 

[BN41Albion]

It’s a good question but it’s not comparing apples and apples. RDZ gets every day with us. Southgate gets 10 days every 2-3 months

How do other national teams manage to play a more progressive, dynamic style of football then?

 

[Icy Gull]

Most of the top teams now play systems that are similar to how GP sets up, so I don’t see a problem with the lack of time he’d get with them on International duty. I’d love to see him replace waistcoat man.

 

[CHAPPERS]

And perhaps, who knows, Real Madrid’s outstanding attacking midfielder deserves a little better than this, better than making do to accommodate a 33 year-old managerial favourite from the Saudi Pro League.

Henderson makes gilded England midfield less than the sum of its parts | Barney Ronay

Saudi politics aside, former Liverpool captain is not the right man to combine best with Rice and Bellingham

www.theguardian.com

 

[Guinness Boy]

How do other national teams manage to play a more progressive, dynamic style of football then?

Which ones? Brazil and Spain have always played a certain way (Spain are actually more boring to watch than us), Italy are so all over the place that they didn’t qualify for the tournament after the one they won and France have played the same way for decades and have a way better group of players than us.

That’s not to say Southgate is a particularly innovative coach. He obviously isn’t. It’s all safety first quite clearly and I’ve said that on here before. But it gets results. His qualifying and major tournament results are better than any of his predecessors going back to Alf Ramsay. Given our world ranking is normally outside the top four that’s about right.

That doesn’t mean he’s beyond criticism. Selecting Henderson yesterday was mental and while Maguire knows the system he was poor too. Pickford is awful with his feet. I just see it as a bit more balanced than most of NSC. I see a coach who got us to a final, not a bloke in a Palace shirt.

 

[Bridcutt]

Italy in the Euros Final was probably the most disappointing of all. And not the outcome of the penalties themselves for me.

Despite being 1-0 up after 2 minutes, England finished extra-time with 35% possession and 2 shots total on target including the goal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51198762

Southgate learned nothing from the 2018 WC Semi-Final where having gone a goal up, we tried to protect the lead and lost control.

With an abundance of riches in attacking midfield, a defensively-minded approach isn't going to get the best from what we have.

And the match against Croatia in the semi final. We had to watch Dele Alli and I forgot who the other was run around and try to cover the wings for 60 minutes because Southgate couldn't see that we were getting tactically exposed.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Which ones? Brazil and Spain have always played a certain way (Spain are actually more boring to watch than us), Italy are so all over the place that they didn’t qualify for the tournament after the one they won and France have played the same way for decades and have a way better group of players than us.

That’s not to say Southgate is a particularly innovative coach. He obviously isn’t. It’s all safety first quite clearly and I’ve said that on here before. But it gets results. His qualifying and major tournament results are better than any of his predecessors going back to Alf Ramsay. Given our world ranking is normally outside the top four that’s about right.

That doesn’t mean he’s beyond criticism. Selecting Henderson yesterday was mental and while Maguire knows the system he was poor too. Pickford is awful with his feet. I just see it as a bit more balanced than most of NSC. I see a coach who got us to a final, not a bloke in a Palace shirt.

Japan for example?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I want to defend Southgate for the reasons many on here are. His results have been (relatively) good and he’s clearly good at the emotional side of it. But there’s no doubt he’s tactically limited. A better tactical manager might have beaten both Croatia and Italy. Foden must start, and Henderson should be nowhere near the starting eleven.

Southgate would be a very good person to have around, just nowhere near the footballing side of things

 

[Guinness Boy]

Japan for example?

Not a bad shout from what I remember of the World Cup. Smashed Germany yesterday but with 32% possession did they mostly play on the break?