[Football] England squad announcement - Lewis Dunk RECALLED!

[Cheshire Cat]

I don't recall anyone saying that there is no manager out there who would be prepared to take on the Brighton job who would be good enough to do it.

There were/are loads of great managers who could manage an EPL club, but they are largely not suitable to manage England because:

1. They are not English
2. They like day to day management
3. They don't relish being on a hiding to nothing.

4. They are not Alf Ramsey.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

This key England player said this about Southgate at the weekend, praising his leadership and his focus on winning

“We had a meeting the other day and the manager talked about winning the Euros and the whole squad is thinking about winning the Euros.
“Being around these top players, I can see why he is saying that and why England can win.”

He added: “I would say that’s the big change in mentality from when i was here a few years ago.

“It’s not ‘how far can we get in a tournament?’ It’s winning a tournament.

“So that is probably the biggest change I’ve seen coming back.

“It’s now, ‘We will win this tournament. We want to win this tournament’. That’s what we’re going there to do.”


(Lewis Dunk btw)

The question you have to ask yourself is what was the mentality prior to these games. Lewis is hardly going to say ‘he’s a useless palace wanker‘ is he.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

I don't disagree with a lot of this, with two glaring exceptions. Firstly, if we sack him today, who comes in? I've said it a few times, I don't see anyone waiting in the wings. You can forget about anyone currently doing well in the Premier League. That leaves someone doing badly - Gary O'Neill or Sean Dyche if you want an Englishman - or someone not involved at all - Potter. Or promoting Lee Carsley.

I don't see any of those options being great. Potter for the reasons I've put on here on a number of posts, GON because he's unproved, ditto Carsley, and Dyche because he's Dyche.

You might get Smeddie if Newcastle bin him off but I suspect he'd be the type to hang around for another Premier League gig. Like Potter he wouldn't exactly be poor.

This is why I said to @Krafty last night that he has to stay until there's a better option. IMO Potter isn't it.

BTW Southgate has the second best win ratio of all England managers since the war. The only higher is Capello who was in charge for exactly half the number of games and was horrible in major tournaments. He also didn't have to do the Nations League.

I agree with the replacement argument as ‘nature abhors a vacuum’, how ever that doesn’t detract from the fact that he isn’t up to the job. During the Euro’s, European football was in the shit house. Spain crap, Germany shocking, Portugal shit, the Dutch and Italy the worse they have ever been. We should have won … easily … but because of his inept management we didn’t. its Not so much about how good our players are, more about how appallingly bad everyone else was. That is my issue.
I like the bloke, I think the palace angle is bollocks but he is way to cautious and you don’t win tournaments with that approach.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Ok, that's a fair response but personally I don't ever particularly look forward to watching England play because at its best it's not as good as the worst Brighton performance under RDZ. We're far better to watch than anything Southgate will ever be able to serve up.

That game really cemented my belief that England are purely a results/highlights team. If you just look at the result, that one is fantastic. You do have to totally ignore the actual performance in the game to enjoy that result. A goal from a corner and a penalty won us that game. A win is a win, but let's not pretend it was a good performance or enjoyable to sit through. I watch most England games, including that one. But should I ever have a better option, I'd take it.

We’re far better to watch than almost any other club side. Maybe only Man City, sometimes Barca, Arsenal on good days? RDZ has changed how football is played here. Drink that in.

 

[Motogull]

Based on every managerial job he's had he's an awful coach. He's consistent certainly.

Not one PL team would want him, for good reason too. Unless it's for the U21s I guess

Beaky will have him at Palace in a heartbeat. When flirting with another yank (whose money he'll be after) it'll be all 'we're the oldest club in world football and we attract former England managers, now give me some ringfenced money please'.

All football managers have a shelf life. Southgate did really well for a while, particularly around removing cliques and bringing stronger togetherness,

He may have removed some old cliques but they still prosper there.

 

[GT49er]

....all the rest of your post, plus this......................“It’s now, ‘We will win this tournament. We want to win this tournament’. That’s what we’re going there to do.”


(Lewis Dunk btw)

...... a player who won't get a kick then?

 

[Pavilionaire]

Victims ? Bellingham has started pretty much every England game for the last two years. Foden has missed - apart from a couple of injuries- hardly any games in the last 2 years starting many . He's picked him more than Pep does. . Dunk - correct. Overlooked by Southgate in favour of Maguire and Stones . Dunk will start tomorrow almost certainly. (otherwise - why give him a call up).

The point made in the article, and one that is evident to anyone who regularly watches England, is that there is no point starting the match if you are either being played out of position or being starved of the ball. Yes, Bellingham has been picked and he is one of the best players in the world, but we've only seen it in a handful of matches because he is half of a double pivot that has to go deep to get the ball off the centre backs, reducing his threat and potency.

Similarly, Foden is so good Pep was willing to let Mahrez and Cole Palmer go, such is his potency cutting in from the right and playing in and around the No. 10 role. Yet - again - he has been a bit part player for England for 2 years, and it wouldn't surprise me if that is partly down to his antics with Mason Greenwood in Iceland that Southgate holds a grudge for.

Southgate has been given a template by Spurs with the Kane and Son partnership, yet he has failed to find an equivalent partner for Kane with England despite having Rashford and Foden available and both more than capable of replicating Son's role.

Rashford has 16 goals in 54 matches, and when he has played Kane has been on the field almost every minute. Yet contrast that record with Danny Welbeck, who also had 16 goals for England, but in only 42 matches and without a partner and creator like Kane.

Indeed, Foden himself has a pitiful 3 goals in 26 matches. Again, same amount of matches as Daniel Sturridge who managed 8 goals. I think Rashford and Foden are superior players to what Welbeck and Sturridge were in their pomp and yet there is a criminal lack of England goal production from them because Southgate doesn't have a clue how to integrate them into his team and maximise their effectiveness.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I agree with the replacement argument as ‘nature abhors a vacuum’, how ever that doesn’t detract from the fact that he isn’t up to the job. During the Euro’s, European football was in the shit house. Spain crap, Germany shocking, Portugal shit, the Dutch and Italy the worse they have ever been. We should have won … easily … but because of his inept management we didn’t. its Not so much about how good our players are, more about how appallingly bad everyone else was. That is my issue.
I like the bloke, I think the palace angle is bollocks but he is way to cautious and you don’t win tournaments with that approach.

But until penalty kicks he was on target to do just that. By your standards he’s had 45 bad minutes.

Should Serena Wiegman resign from the ladies? We were reigning European champions with Lauren James “as good as a Premier League player” in the team. The all powerful USA at the end of a cycle, their own best player too old. And yet we absolutely bottled the final. Not on penalties. In 90 mins.

 

[OzMike]

He will get game time against the jocks.

 

[Weststander]

Just found this ‘authentic’ Scottish commentary clip from the 1966 WCF

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The point made in the article, and one that is evident to anyone who regularly watches England, is that there is no point starting the match if you are either being played out of position or being starved of the ball. Yes, Bellingham has been picked and he is one of the best players in the world, but we've only seen it in a handful of matches because he is half of a double pivot that has to go deep to get the ball off the centre backs, reducing his threat and potency.

Similarly, Foden is so good Pep was willing to let Mahrez and Cole Palmer go, such is his potency cutting in from the right and playing in and around the No. 10 role. Yet - again - he has been a bit part player for England for 2 years, and it wouldn't surprise me if that is partly down to his antics with Mason Greenwood in Iceland that Southgate holds a grudge for.

Southgate has been given a template by Spurs with the Kane and Son partnership, yet he has failed to find an equivalent partner for Kane with England despite having Rashford and Foden available and both more than capable of replicating Son's role.

Rashford has 16 goals in 54 matches, and when he has played Kane has been on the field almost every minute. Yet contrast that record with Danny Welbeck, who also had 16 goals for England, but in only 42 matches and without a partner and creator like Kane.

Indeed, Foden himself has a pitiful 3 goals in 26 matches. Again, same amount of matches as Daniel Sturridge who managed 8 goals. I think Rashford and Foden are superior players to what Welbeck and Sturridge were in their pomp and yet there is a criminal lack of England goal production from them because Southgate doesn't have a clue how to integrate them into his team and maximise their effectiveness.

‘Speak to Pep’: Gareth Southgate fires back over Phil Foden’s best position

The England manager rejects the idea that the 23-year-old is playing more centrally for Manchester City this season

www.theguardian.com

Would not hold out hope for Southgate to get the best out of Foden

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Beaky will have him at Palace in a heartbeat. When flirting with another yank (whose money he'll be after) it'll be all 'we're the oldest club in world football and we attract former England managers, now give me some ringfenced money please'.

He may have removed some old cliques but they still prosper there.

Evidence?

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

But until penalty kicks he was on target to do just that. By your standards he’s had 45 bad minutes.

Should Serena Wiegman resign from the ladies? We were reigning European champions with Lauren James “as good as a Premier League player” in the team. The all powerful USA at the end of a cycle, their own best player too old. And yet we absolutely bottled the final. Not on penalties. In 90 mins.

The discussion is about Southgate not Wiegman.
As soon as we scored early in the euro final we were doomed. His approach against any ‘good’ team is to score and then hold on for dear life and that played into the Italians hands. That is not just my opinion but also of italian colleagues at the time. It’s very similar to CH in that approach. It will only get you so far and is very, very predictable. Any experienced coach will pick us apart due to the predictable nature of how we play. He needs to have a plan b and a plan c, until then he’ll not win a final because the teams we come up against know how we‘ll play and set up to beat us.

 

[Bakero]

‘Speak to Pep’: Gareth Southgate fires back over Phil Foden’s best position

The England manager rejects the idea that the 23-year-old is playing more centrally for Manchester City this season

www.theguardian.com

Would not hold out hope for Southgate to get the best out of Foden

I notice he says that experimenting in a friendly would be "ridiculous".

If you can't try things out in a friendly, when can you?

Does this mean no Dunk this evening then?

 

[Horses Arse]

The discussion is about Southgate not Wiegman.
As soon as we scored early in the euro final we were doomed. His approach against any ‘good’ team is to score and then hold on for dear life and that played into the Italians hands. That is not just my opinion but also of italian colleagues at the time. It’s very similar to CH in that approach. It will only get you so far and is very, very predictable. Any experienced coach will pick us apart due to the predictable nature of how we play. He needs to have a plan b and a plan c, until then he’ll not win a final because the teams we come up against know how we‘ll play and set up to beat us.

I have no belief in Southgate, want him to go. Tactically inept and generating the cliques, un droppable payers - the sort of problems that screwed it up previously. He also seems to exclude players who haven't progressed through the age groups with England.

However, I've historically seen criticism of England teams being naive, failing to shut up shop. Need to learn how to close games out, not pretty but it's how to win tournaments etc.

Problem with Southgate is he's no idea how to achieve it because he's tactically inept and plays shit players that can't, e.g. maguire, mings etc.

In short, he's a throw back to the bad old days. Good egg, play for the team/shirt, etc. Kevin Keegan on valium.

 

[Springal]

I have no belief in Southgate, want him to go. Tactically inept and generating the cliques, un droppable payers - the sort of problems that screwed it up previously. He also seems to exclude players who haven't progressed through the age groups with England.

However, I've historically seen criticism of England teams being naive, failing to shut up shop. Need to learn how to close games out, not pretty but it's how to win tournaments etc.

Problem with Southgate is he's no idea how to achieve it because he's tactically inept and plays shit players that can't, e.g. maguire, mings etc.

In short, he's a throw back to the bad old days. Good egg, play for the team/shirt, etc. Kevin Keegan on valium.

You’re obsessed man.

 

[Horses Arse]

You’re obsessed man.

I'm trying to catch you up! Some way to go but I'm no quitter

 

[Springal]

I'm trying to catch you up! Some way to go but I'm no quitter

What am I obsessed about ?

 

[Javeaseagull]

I have just heard him say that we can’t make too many changes for the friendly with Scotland! I despair, honestly. If you can’t try things now when can you? People have accused him of being cautious but this is a whole new level. How on earth does anybody else get experience if you don’t make changes? We are doomed I tells yah.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The discussion is about Southgate not Wiegman.

I gave you a directly comparable example with a yes/no answer possibility. I can only assume you don't want to compare the two because it would either expose a contradiction in your opinion or you don't really care about the women.