[Football] England given one-match stadium ban

[Fat Boy Fat]

The irony of this decision of course is that UEFA themselves take control of the stadium and the organisational issues for every game - with a team of UEFA appointed people to control everything from brand protection, ambush marketing, broadcast access, security and match organisation.

Still, morons who stole access equipment for the disabled, in order to allow people to enter for nothing are dreadful individuals, and the punishment definitely fits their stupidity.

And do you think they will be bothered?

Nah!

 

[Springal]

The irony of this decision of course is that UEFA themselves take control of the stadium and the organisational issues for every game - with a team of UEFA appointed people to control everything from brand protection, ambush marketing, broadcast access, security and match organisation.

Still, morons who stole access equipment for the disabled, in order to allow people to enter for nothing are dreadful individuals, and the punishment definitely fits their stupidity.

I'm sorry but that is not true. They do 'control' the stadium, but it isn't a bunch of UEFA bods from Switzerland rocking in and setting it all up from scratch. The Stadium Manager and Security teams are the same ones that do all events at Wembley.

Using your theory how do you explain Hampden Park & Rome having external 'rings of steel' with ticket check points far back from the stadium, but not at Wembley?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I was there - and a regular following England home and away. I support this, because the stewarding, set up, planning for this major sporting final was an absolute disgrace. Sub par compared to any other major tournament I have been to.

Fans have been jibbing into Wembley at FA Cup finals for years, well known between Man City fans - so this is not a 'surprise'

Agree with that - I was there too.

Whilst ultimately the idiots who got in without tickets were responsible for their actions there were failure from a multitude of agencies that led to the scenes witnessed that day.

The FA, Wembley Stadium, the police, the Mayor, Brent Council - the list goes on.

We got to Wembley Park Tube Station FOUR HOURS before kick off - upon exiting the station were told there were close on 100,000 people on Wembley way.

Complete shambles.

 

[maltaseagull]

Seems reasonable.

It is provided Hungary are banned from the next Euros.

 

[el punal]

Presumably the ban includes the band? So there is a significant upside

Weren’t those naughty fans trying to get to the band? I mean there are only so many renditions of the Great Escape, Rule Britannia, God Save the Queen played ad nauseum, ad infinitum and in an inexorable fashion that any sane fan can take.

 

[maltaseagull]

Agree with that - I was there too.

Whilst ultimately the idiots who got in without tickets were responsible for their actions there were failure from a multitude of agencies that led to the scenes witnessed that day.

The FA, Wembley Stadium, the police, the Mayor, Brent Council - the list goes on.

We got to Wembley Park Tube Station FOUR HOURS before kick off - upon exiting the station were told there were close on 100,000 people on Wembley way.

Complete shambles.

You missed Boris!

 

[portlock seagull]

Definitely.

I was speaking to someone who's spent many years living in France, Spain and Italy, including a few weeks last month in France. He spoke of the no nonsense approach from their police, especially the paramilitary style Guardia Civil and similar. He witnessed law/rules breakers eg on Covid restrictions, being unceremoniously booted out and more of venues.

Imho we've lurched too far to a gentle touch when it comes to dealing with our morons.

With you all the way on this one. Our chav fans genuinely need a proper kick in from the riot police like they do on the continent. Not just until they’ve fallen over, but continued beating with batons as they lie in their spilt lager until it turns red. Then move onto the next clown and club him/her similarly. Any still lying there 5mins later get chucked in the meat wagon. Not an ambulance. Then more of the same down the station just for good measure. Basically, beat the message into ‘em!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Scummy chavs win.

Very naive of the FA/Met to rely on stewards, thugs simply ignore or beat the crap out of them. The nation has never kicked the mass violent and fck-rules tendancies of lowlifes in our midst.

I saw one of NSC's lowest goons on another thread today, defending any oafish behaviour at the football if it isn't illegal. It is a sliding scale of course, but if your agenda is to slide as far as you can get away with, expect punishment when you slide into a bit of the brown stuff.

Also, to be fair, the sort of dippy oafish jubilant coked up pissed tomfoolery you see with a minority of football clowns is enough for FIFA and related organizations to take great pleasure putting the boot in when the get the chance. I would.

Arrogance, lack of class and respect. Who knew?

 

[bhadebenhams]

Bring back the BIRCH that will learn them

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It is provided Hungary are banned from the next Euros.

Unfortunately we are in no position to negotiate conditions, let alone dictate them.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Agree with that - I was there too.

Whilst ultimately the idiots who got in without tickets were responsible for their actions there were failure from a multitude of agencies that led to the scenes witnessed that day.

The FA, Wembley Stadium, the police, the Mayor, Brent Council - the list goes on.

We got to Wembley Park Tube Station FOUR HOURS before kick off - upon exiting the station were told there were close on 100,000 people on Wembley way.

Complete shambles.

I fear that this is a 'contributory negligence' argument.

Fan misbehaviour, jumping barrocades with no ticket, being dicks in the bars, storming fire doors etc is the fault of nobody other than the pillocks doing the misbehaving.

I could provide an analogy but I can't think of one that someone wouldn't find offensive. Use your imagination.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I fear that this is a 'contributory negligence' argument.

Fan misbehaviour, jumping barrocades with no ticket, being dicks in the bars, storming fire doors etc is the fault of nobody other than the pillocks doing the misbehaving.

I could provide an analogy but I can't think of one that someone wouldn't find offensive. Use your imagination.

Not sure about that. Heysal and Hillsborough show the importance of the authorities doing their job properly. There were plenty of warnings early in the tournament and the stadium authorities had no counter. The individuals breaking the law should be dealt with as individuals but the FA and police need to also be accountable. A one game stadium ban is a good start but anyone involved in the organization of that shambles also needs to demonstrate they are up to the job going forwards.

 

[Weststander]

I saw one of NSC's lowest goons on another thread today, defending any oafish behaviour at the football if it isn't illegal. It is a sliding scale of course, but if your agenda is to slide as far as you can get away with, expect punishment when you slide into a bit of the brown stuff.

Also, to be fair, the sort of dippy oafish jubilant coked up pissed tomfoolery you see with a minority of football clowns is enough for FIFA and related organizations to take great pleasure putting the boot in when the get the chance. I would.

Arrogance, lack of class and respect. Who knew?

Possibly the same poster who a couple years ago thought I was a nasty piece of work because I disagreed with Amex attendees racially abusing visiting players (it wasn’t Zaha btw). His arguments were:
a) Just football stadia bantz; and
b) The police are better deployed catching “real criminals”.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Not sure about that. Heysal and Hillsborough show the importance of the authorities doing their job properly. There were plenty of warnings early in the tournament and the stadium authorities had no counter. The individuals breaking the law should be dealt with as individuals but the FA and police need to also be accountable. A one game stadium ban is a good start but anyone involved in the organization of that shambles also needs to demonstrate they are up to the job going forwards.

I agree that the organizers and authorities must do better. But if it is about blame then the blame lies with the people who 'did it'. Full stop.

At Heysal, nut jobs knocked down a wall crushing people on the other side. You can argue that there should have been hundreds of armed police and a barrier set up....but this is a football match not a war, and that kind of argument assumes that football supporters are murderous animals and legitimises the whole shambles, the rioting, and the would-be heavy handedness by the security had they put an armour protected police mob out (like they do in Italy). I blame the supporters (of both teams) for Heysal. And if memory serves me correctly it was mostly the Liverpool supporters at fault. No matter. The wall could have fallen in either direction....

However I also agree that the punishment should be directed at the organization who failed to take steps, since with England fans extreme dickery can be expected. And at Heysal, extreme dickery was expected. Thatcher was right at the time and too many' supporters' were scum. Yes, let us accept that there is an active element of pricks at football, and let's make sure they get hoiked and punished. There was a massive fail at Wembley. In that I think we agree.

And yet.....I still maintain that the contributory negligence argument has no place in this, since it gives the cretins an escape clause. Yes 'we' failed to take steps, and dicks took advantage. So it is 'our' fault, not the fault of those who did it? No, I don't like that. I won't accept that.

And....OK I will give the analogy. Had the guy whose ethnicity was visibly different (white or black, it matters not) not gone in the racist pub he wouldn't have been stabbed. His fault, then? No way. Never.

A black person has a right to drink in my pub, and I have a right to drink in a pub in Brixton. I don't care if that doesn't map to the 'real world'. Actually, today, in general it does map. In the 1970s it wouldn't, though.

So where does contributory negligence begin to be a legitimate argument? In my view, never.

Apologies if I'm not understanding something and making a huge error of reasoning here.

 

[Hamilton]

The additional punishment was the World Cup bid form being sent back with a smiley face and 'LOL' written across it in large letters.

Probably for the best after that embarrassment.

Yep. Perhaps the Neanderthals will manage to engage their brains for long enough to realise the impact of their actions (as well as frightening the shit out of innocent people.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lawros left foot]

Who is going to booooooo the opposition’s national anthem?

Will we all have to stand on our doorsteps and do it?

 

[Eddiespearritt]

I'm sorry but that is not true. They do 'control' the stadium, but it isn't a bunch of UEFA bods from Switzerland rocking in and setting it all up from scratch. The Stadium Manager and Security teams are the same ones that do all events at Wembley.

Using your theory how do you explain Hampden Park & Rome having external 'rings of steel' with ticket check points far back from the stadium, but not at Wembley?

Not correct. UEFA has an army of people with absolute power to overrule the local organiser - and even more so for the Final - plus the UEFA HQ for the tournament (with real numbers of proper hierarchy) was physically based at Wembley. I'm very well aware of the dynamics of the organisation - and if UEFA saw the need for greater security after the previous games (and levels of improper behaviour) they should and could have ordered it. They didn't - but they do throw the book at the English FA - their live counterparts during the tournament.

As I said, in the end, still some morons felt the need to abuse the system in a dreadful way - and for that the "English" should indeed feel some heat and are rightfully punished.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I agree that the organizers and authorities must do better. But if it is about blame then the blame lies with the people who 'did it'. Full stop.

At Heysal, nut jobs knocked down a wall crushing people on the other side. You can argue that there should have been hundreds of armed police and a barrier set up....but this is a football match not a war, and that kind of argument assumes that football supporters are murderous animals and legitimises the whole shambles, the rioting, and the would-be heavy handedness by the security had they put an armour protected police mob out (like they do in Italy). I blame the supporters (of both teams) for Heysal. And if memory serves me correctly it was mostly the Liverpool supporters at fault. No matter. The wall could have fallen in either direction....

However I also agree that the punishment should be directed at the organization who failed to take steps, since with England fans extreme dickery can be expected. And at Heysal, extreme dickery was expected. Thatcher was right at the time and too many' supporters' were scum. Yes, let us accept that there is an active element of pricks at football, and let's make sure they get hoiked and punished. There was a massive fail at Wembley. In that I think we agree.

And yet.....I still maintain that the contributory negligence argument has no place in this, since it gives the cretins an escape clause. Yes 'we' failed to take steps, and dicks took advantage. So it is 'our' fault, not the fault of those who did it? No, I don't like that. I won't accept that.

And....OK I will give the analogy. Had the guy whose ethnicity was visibly different (white or black, it matters not) not gone in the racist pub he wouldn't have been stabbed. His fault, then? No way. Never.

A black person has a right to drink in my pub, and I have a right to drink in a pub in Brixton. I don't care if that doesn't map to the 'real world'. Actually, today, in general it does map. In the 1970s it wouldn't, though.

So where does contributory negligence begin to be a legitimate argument? In my view, never.

Apologies if I'm not understanding something and making a huge error of reasoning here.

Not at all. I understand and agree with your argument about where blame lies. There should have been massive penalties handed down to the people involved. I have no idea if that happened or not. I would imagine not because there were so many misbehaving and so few police. There was no visible deterrent, no perimeter ticket checks like at other grounds and too much reliance on low paid, poorly trained stewards. That stuff is organizational. I don’t think it is assuming fans to be animals to get these things right. I could buy your argument about the organization only if exactly the same thing hadn’t happened at the SF. But it had.

 

[Springal]

Not correct. UEFA has an army of people with absolute power to overrule the local organiser - and even more so for the Final - plus the UEFA HQ for the tournament (with real numbers of proper hierarchy) was physically based at Wembley. I'm very well aware of the dynamics of the organisation - and if UEFA saw the need for greater security after the previous games (and levels of improper behaviour) they should and could have ordered it. They didn't - but they do throw the book at the English FA - their live counterparts during the tournament.

As I said, in the end, still some morons felt the need to abuse the system in a dreadful way - and for that the "English" should indeed feel some heat and are rightfully punished.

Explain why they would inconsistently apply security measures, check points etc? Like I say ever major tournament I’ve been to since 2006 the stadiums have much stricter security around the permiter than Wembley had this summer. Even the nations league in Guimarães!! Something is not right.

Or why legally they English FA haven’t been able to go against UEFA and say your organised it, your problem?

 

[Codner's Wallop]

Can’t they just play it at Portman Road on a normal Saturday. No-one will know the difference…