[Football] England being overrated again

[Yes Chef]

10-12 years ago we had an unbelievable squad of players with only the left of midfield being a weakness with Joe Cole being played out of position. Every other footballer was playing in their favored position for a top side and some potentially in the top 5 for that position. We didn't even make the semi-finals and lost everytime we played a decent side.

Now we are a shadow of the side who between them had several premier league winners medals as well as a few champions league winners. Now we have no real stand out talents but expect to win against lesser, better organised and disciplined opposition. We have no chance of winning and will probably be knocked out in the group stages as there are no world-class players in our side and they don't have the capacity to battle against the best

With respect, I disagree. The squad assembled weren't half as good as they thought. We stank out Germany 2006, and failed to make the 2008 euros.

We've been gash for a long long time

 

[Stat Brother]

You can, but be warned, almost all German online bookmakers are unlicensed. All betting shops in Germany are state controlled and offer less attractive odds.

Just wondering, I can't afford to bet in this country let alone anywhere else.
My question being surely less attractive odds on England from a Germany bookie would still be considerably more attractive than those offered down the road?

 

[LlcoolJ]

Just wondering, I can't afford to bet in this country let alone anywhere else.
My question being surely less attractive odds on England from a Germany bookie would still be considerably more attractive than those offered down the road?

Doubt it. It's a global market now.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

10-12 years ago we had an unbelievable squad of players with only the left of midfield being a weakness with Joe Cole being played out of position. Every other footballer was playing in their favored position for a top side and some potentially in the top 5 for that position. We didn't even make the semi-finals and lost everytime we played a decent side.

Now we are a shadow of the side who between them had several premier league winners medals as well as a few champions league winners. Now we have no real stand out talents but expect to win against lesser, better organised and disciplined opposition. We have no chance of winning and will probably be knocked out in the group stages as there are no world-class players in our side and they don't have the capacity to battle against the best

Was that unbelievable squad, as you say, really that talented?
They were a generation of very good club players and solid internationals but there wasn't a single member of that squad that could be described as world class. Everything changed when a very young Rooney burst on the scene, fearless and talented and he looked like ripping up the 2004 Euro's, until injury derailed him. He could have won that tournament off his own back had he not got injured. No other member of the ' golden generation ' was capable of that.
The other factor that worked against us was the longevity of Sven. A very clever, financially motivated individual, who built up a mystique around himself and it ended up with many people believing that he was a highly talented, deep thinking student of the game. The FA ( completely taken in by him ) kept extending his contract, at ever increasing money, even though he kept failing to get us past the quarters in a succession of tournaments. That generation of players was wasted by Sven, who lacked discipline and real strategy. Even though we lacked the truly world class players, the sum of the parts was pretty good and a better manager than Sven could well have taken them deeper into tournaments.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Just wondering, I can't afford to bet in this country let alone anywhere else.
My question being surely less attractive odds on England from a Germany bookie would still be considerably more attractive than those offered down the road?

Between 15-20% of the total betting market in Germany is with BET365.

 

[Stat Brother]

Between 15-20% of the total betting market in Germany is with BET365.

So no then, thanks (and ll) for answering.
The Germans must look at our odds and wonder what the hell is going on!!!

 

[LlcoolJ]

Was that unbelievable squad, as you say, really that talented?
They were a generation of very good club players and solid internationals but there wasn't a single member of that squad that could be described as world class. Everything changed when a very young Rooney burst on the scene, fearless and talented and he looked like ripping up the 2004 Euro's, until injury derailed him. He could have won that tournament off his own back had he not got injured. No other member of the ' golden generation ' was capable of that.
The other factor that worked against us was the longevity of Sven. A very clever, financially motivated individual, who built up a mystique around himself and it ended up with many people believing that he was a highly talented, deep thinking student of the game. The FA ( completely taken in by him ) kept extending his contract, at ever increasing money, even though he kept failing to get us past the quarters in a succession of tournaments. That generation of players was wasted by Sven, who lacked discipline and real strategy. Even though we lacked the truly world class players, the sum of the parts was pretty good and a better manager than Sven could well have taken them deeper into tournaments.

Completely agree re Sven. A snake oil salesman who should have done SO much better with that squad.

We kept hearing "he got us to the quarter finals" from the media and the FA. So ****ing what? With the players he had, to not make a semi final was criminal. He basically played the same team in the same formation in every game and we paid him millions for it.

That quarter final v Brazil springs to mind when we were 2-1 down and they were down to ten men. No subs, no change of shape, no clue.

We had Sheringham on the bench and just needed a bit of nous and creativity to unlock them as they were on the back foot. Sven did nothing. Remember the entire pub screaming at the TV " just do something you ****!!!" etc.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Completely agree re Sven. A snake oil salesman who should have done SO much better with that squad.

We kept hearing "he got us to the quarter finals" from the media and the FA. So ****ing what? With the players he had, to not make a semi final was criminal. He basically played the same team in the same formation in every game and we paid him millions for it.

That quarter final v Brazil springs to mind when we were 2-1 down and they were down to ten men. No subs, no change of shape, no clue.

We had Sheringham on the bench and just needed a bit of nous and creativity to unlock them as they were on the back foot. Sven did nothing. Remember the entire pub screaming at the TV " just do something you ****!!!" etc.

I seem to recall I was already on my 3rd pint at 7am when the pub we were in was officially licensed to serve from that morning.

We were screaming for Joe Cole to be thrown on. A crocked Beckham and Paul Scholes had dreadful games that morning I recall and with Neville and Gerrard not at the tournament we had Danny Mills and Trevor Sinclair starting too - It wasn't quite the golden opportunity that Euro2004 was, with-or-without Rooney getting injured - We should have won that - We did have all the players then.

 

[Sheebo]

Anyone betting against their country winning can literally **** off!

 

[LlcoolJ]

Qualifying for the World Cup from Africa as reason alone means Tunisia deserves somerespect.

But if you look at their squad, and even with a relatively poor England squad at our disposal, it is unlikely that we will come away with anything other than a victory against them. It would take a very poor performance from us and an exceptional performance from them to get even a draw.

Exceptionally poor performances at the World Cup are what we're great at though. I really, really hope I'm wrong but my expectations are for us to be total shit, get knocked out early on and then I can enjoy the rest of the tournament. As per.

 

[Weststander]

No seasoned football fan thinks we'll get far, expectations have never been so 'modest'.

IF we manage to win 2 or 3 games, that'll be a massive improvement on tournaments over the last 20 years.

I'm looking forward to it and the WC in general.

 

[Eeyore]

There is never any value in a bet on England at the major tournaments. Never has been, never will be. Odds are warped by the sheer number of patriotic bets made in this country.

All the value is on the draw, IMO. I don't think 9 or 10/1 on Tunisia is bad value, but I just don't think they'll win. I reckon the chances of a draw are MUCH lower than 1 in 5 though!

Interestingly not. Our odds tend to run similar with international bookies (maybe slightly longer). We are around 16/1 in Oz at present.

 

[Statto]

Exceptionally poor performances at the World Cup are what we're great at though.

Really? Yes we always seem to disappoint, and we never come close, but apart form a couple of times in 2010 (Germany and Algeria) when have we put in an exceptionally poor performance at a recent word cup? Most of the time we don't play well, but exceptionally poor? Come on!

 

[West Upper Seagull]

As with every tournament we go into, I have zero expectation which then minimises the eventual disappointment !

 

[knocky1]

I see England at 18-1 to win WC as very attractive. Bet options if, or when we get, through group should be enough to play with without losing.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I think the main issue that puts me off the draw/Tunisia win is that England have better footballers....

that only counts if they turn up....

 

[piersa]

We are absolutely bang average. If we get past the last 16 it will be a big achievement

 

[Napper]

10-12 years ago we had an unbelievable squad of players with only the left of midfield being a weakness with Joe Cole being played out of position. Every other footballer was playing in their favored position for a top side and some potentially in the top 5 for that position. We didn't even make the semi-finals and lost everytime we played a decent side.

Now we are a shadow of the side who between them had several premier league winners medals as well as a few champions league winners. Now we have no real stand out talents but expect to win against lesser, better organised and disciplined opposition. We have no chance of winning and will probably be knocked out in the group stages as there are no world-class players in our side and they don't have the capacity to battle against the best

Teams do well without having a team of world beaters.

If we get a bit of momentum and Southgate continues the progress and we play as a team . I can see us getting gto the 1/4s . That would be a big success for where we are at the moment.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Teams do well without having a team of world beaters.

If we get a bit of momentum and Southgate continues the progress and we play as a team . I can see us getting gto the 1/4s . That would be a big success for where we are at the moment.

This did make me smile, I thought here we go, someone bigging us up all the way.......to the 1/4s!

I agree, if they suddenly believe in themselves a bit, a 1/4 final place would have to be considered a big success. My big fear is so many of our players lose the ball too much. Rashford, Stirling, Alli, Lingard, Welbeck – all effective in the PL, but ball retention is generally poor. I think we'll play okay, but find it very tough.

 

[A1X]

Who uses the FIFA rankings as a serious measure of a team's ability? That's your first problem right there.