[Football] Eng-Ger-Land v Italy tonight

[A1X]

Rashford was in the squad?

I see him as more of a winger TBH, at least that's how he seems to be played by everyone.

 

[Mellotron]

I was/am mildly pro-VAR but it is being woefully misused. Shouldn’t be used at the World Cup as the refs haven’t got to grips with it at all. Not even close to ready.

 

[Easy 10]

I was/am mildly pro-VAR but it is being woefully misused. Shouldn’t be used at the World Cup as the refs haven’t got to grips with it at all. Not even close to ready.

Many of the referees at this upcoming World Cup have NEVER used VARS. Just let that sink in for a moment.

FIFA are pressing ahead though. And guess what - they've been in talks with technological businesses to have their brands sponsoring the VARS reviews. So expect to see Tag Heuer plastered all over the global feeds as we sit there watching the replays as they deliberate over something.

"This VARS review is brought to you in association with DHL, and Mastercard"

Yup. They're going to utterly kill the game as we know it.

 

[Simster]

I was/am mildly pro-VAR but it is being woefully misused. Shouldn’t be used at the World Cup as the refs haven’t got to grips with it at all. Not even close to ready.

This. The rules as to when it should be invoked are simply not clear enough, and I worry that too many people will shout it down rather than encourage the authorities to look to improve the way it is used. People grumbling about VAR are quick to forget just how many high profile mistakes have meant a game's outcome going completely the wrong way - internationally, England have suffered more than most. It is almost criminal at the highest level, where a goals are scarce and really ought to be decided upon FAIRLY.

As for yesterday, I don't think I'd have given a penalty, but can see that others would. It comes down to your interpretation of a defensive foul, but for me the striker's leg went unnaturally to his right so it wasn't a surprise his foot was trodden on. I don't think the defender had any chance of avoiding it. I still think the VAR mess could be cleared up fairly easily. At this point, they should be meeting governing bodies of other sports - rugby being the obvious one - to see how they implement it. Rugby VAR started out controversially, but now not so much.

 

[Brovion]

Blimey, I am completely the reverse!

At last we seem to have a team brave enough to retain possession in tight spots. At times I thought our full backs and Stones in particular worked some lovely moves. More than happy to take the risks over keep giving the ball away a.k.a every other tournament I can think of in the last 25 years or so.

Agreed. Ok we lack the class and ability of the top nations, but finally we're trying to play football. Gone are the three rigid lines of four, four and two with the ball being hoofed forward at every opportunity.

 

[Simster]

Many of the referees at this upcoming World Cup have NEVER used VARS. Just let that sink in for a moment.

Right, I've let that sink in and I can't help thinking you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
Some refs haven't used VAR before? So what? As long as the rules as to when it should be invoked are clear, there really ought not to be a problem.

Personally I'm fed up with top level games being decided by poor decisions. Maradona's hand of God, TWO Sol Campbell headers disallowed (Argentina, Portugal), Lampard's goal that was only five feet over the goal line - and that is just England. I'd much rather FIFA persevered with VAR but made an effort to get it working properly.

 

[clarkey]

I see him as more of a winger TBH, at least that's how he seems to be played by everyone.

He's so much better through the middle, he's just never going to get given that chance at United over Lukaku (and previously Zlatan) or England over Kane.

 

[Perry Milkins]

Damn right, along with the players form Massive clubs like Burnley,Swansea,Stoke and Bournemouth.

Or maybe as he was the best performing in the qualifying he has more than enough credit in the bank ?

Yup. Good slap for me Mr Spurs!

So Sturridge and Welbeck have credit in the bank? So did Rooney but hey-ho.

 

[beorhthelm]

Personally I'm fed up with top level games being decided by poor decisions. Maradona's hand of God, TWO Sol Campbell headers disallowed (Argentina, Portugal), Lampard's goal that was only five feet over the goal line - and that is just England. I'd much rather FIFA persevered with VAR but made an effort to get it working properly.

those goals incidents would be resolved with the much simpler goal line tech thats now in widespread use. VAR and importantly the rules around it, have not matured enough to be used in the showcase football event. so they should persevere with it to get it right, then bring it to the world cup. in all probability we are going to have games decided by poor application of VAR.

 

[Simster]

those goals incidents would be resolved with the much simpler goal line tech thats now in widespread use. VAR and importantly the rules around it, have not matured enough to be used in the showcase football event. so they should persevere with it to get it right, then bring it to the world cup. in all probability we are going to have games decided by poor application of VAR.

No they wouldn't. Only ONE of them would, and that's the Lampard example. None of the others would be resolved by technology currently in use.

In my view, you're absolutely right with the rest of your post though. It's way too early, and consequently we're going to end up with poor VAR decisions and bellyaching from people who want it binned off completely, as if there was never a problem that needed fixing.

 

[Easy 10]

Right, I've let that sink in and I can't help thinking you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
Some refs haven't used VAR before? So what? As long as the rules as to when it should be invoked are clear, there really ought not to be a problem.

Personally I'm fed up with top level games being decided by poor decisions. Maradona's hand of God, TWO Sol Campbell headers disallowed (Argentina, Portugal), Lampard's goal that was only five feet over the goal line - and that is just England. I'd much rather FIFA persevered with VAR but made an effort to get it working properly.

The price to pay to try to correct these (very rare) clear and obvious errors is too great a one IMO. We can all cite examples of some absolute howlers that have proved costly, but they ARE extremely rare, they're not commonplace at all - they're just more memorable because of the stage they occurred on. You've given 3 examples over 30-odd years that are each about 10 years apart, one of which will never happen again btw, thanks to goalline technology (which works perfectly).

Referee's do get it right the vast, vast majority of the time, but there is always going to be an element of human error in the game. Even VARS won't fix that, because you've still ultimately got humans reviewing and interpreting decisions.

The game wasn't broke. It doesn't need fixing. All you're doing with VARS is shipping in a whole NEW batch of arguments and controversies to replace the old ones.

 

[Simster]

The price to pay to try to correct these (very rare) clear and obvious errors is too great a one IMO. We can all cite examples of some absolute howlers that have proved costly, but they ARE extremely rare, they're not commonplace at all - they're just more memorable because of the stage they occurred on. You've given 3 examples over 30-odd years that are each about 10 years apart, one of which will never happen again btw, thanks to goalline technology (which works perfectly).

Let me stop you there because this is absolute rubbish from start to finish.

I cited FOUR examples between 1986 and 2010 - 24 years, and in those 13 tournaments I think we qualified in 11. So when you say 30 odd years, you mean 24 years and over a THIRD of the times we got knocked out were down to poor refereeing decisions. That is an absolute farce. And of the four examples I cited, only ONE of them would be resolved by goal line technology as it is now.

These are facts.

I'm sorry but the game IS broken at the highest level.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Personally I'm fed up with top level games being decided by poor decisions. Maradona's hand of God, TWO Sol Campbell headers disallowed (Argentina, Portugal), Lampard's goal that was only five feet over the goal line - and that is just England. I'd much rather FIFA persevered with VAR but made an effort to get it working properly.

But isn't that exactly what continues our interest in the game? All those years later and you can still remember every second of those incidents and the anger and disappointment still lingers, Will you really feel the same about us getting a consolation goal in a 3-1 defeat in the round of 16 because VAR correctly picked up a little shirt pull and goal line technology proved the resulting free kick was a foot over the line?

Or, to explain further, right now if the decision goes against you and you don't believe it's correct you're straight up out of your seat with an "OI REF" or worse even if you've seen it from Row Z wearing blue and white specs and through the lens of five pints of lager. Now you're just going to have to sit there while some other referee, who might not even be in the ground, watches ever more super slo-mo, logo infested images of the same incident and gives the same decision five minutes later. Whoopee.

And let's not even start on the effect this will have on the quality of decisions in the lower leagues. Who, exactly, is going to be the VAR for big games? Won't it need to be other qualified referees. So, you're going to need a ref, two assistants, a fourth official and a VAR for every designated game. We already know some PL refs are not quite up to the standard. Roll this out to each of the 10 PL games per weekend and you're going to need 50 top level officials. That's ten fewer to do Championship games, and so on and so on.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The price to pay to try to correct these (very rare) clear and obvious errors is too great a one IMO. We can all cite examples of some absolute howlers that have proved costly, but they ARE extremely rare, they're not commonplace at all - they're just more memorable because of the stage they occurred on. You've given 3 examples over 30-odd years that are each about 10 years apart, one of which will never happen again btw, thanks to goalline technology (which works perfectly).

Referee's do get it right the vast, vast majority of the time, but there is always going to be an element of human error in the game. Even VARS won't fix that, because you've still ultimately got humans reviewing and interpreting decisions.

The game wasn't broke. It doesn't need fixing. All you're doing with VARS is shipping in a whole NEW batch of arguments and controversies to replace the old ones.

Exactamundo

 

[Renegade1]

Take 100 games.Var used for 50.Would you expect the ones used with Var to have a fairer outcome?Obviously you would.

What's the problem then?there is no problem.

I think in this country we just hate change.We are just so stuck in the good ole days.

Move on.Get with it.

 

[AmexRuislip]

I see from the traffic on the site today about this, that everyone is BUZZING for this game.

As ever a little WAGER offers at least some interest in proceedings. Couldn't see any value in the betting mind, so limited to a little treble myself:

ENG-ITA draw
GER-BRA draw
ESP-ARG draw at a combined 35/1

The Germany Brazil game is on BT Sport. Might well end watching that one, when the England game inevitably disappoints

No one saw that coming

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Who, exactly, is going to be the VAR for big games? Won't it need to be other qualified referees.

Presumably, once VAR is into widespread (eg PL) use, they will recruit from the large pool of fully qualified referees barred from the middle through age restrictions?

 

[Renegade1]

The price to pay to try to correct these (very rare) clear and obvious errors is too great a one IMO. We can all cite examples of some absolute howlers that have proved costly, but they ARE extremely rare, they're not commonplace at all - they're just more memorable because of the stage they occurred on. You've given 3 examples over 30-odd years that are each about 10 years apart, one of which will never happen again btw, thanks to goalline technology (which works perfectly).

Referee's do get it right the vast, vast majority of the time, but there is always going to be an element of human error in the game. Even VARS won't fix that, because you've still ultimately got humans reviewing and interpreting decisions.

The game wasn't broke. It doesn't need fixing. All you're doing with VARS is shipping in a whole NEW batch of arguments and controversies to replace the old ones.

More decisions than not are correct however those mistakes can be howlers.Then of course you have to bring linesmen into it
and the fact is often they get offsides wrong.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

No one saw that coming

Messi being rested, wasn't the best start.

 

[Easy 10]

Let me stop you there because this is absolute rubbish from start to finish.

I cited FOUR examples between 1986 and 2010 - 24 years, and in those 13 tournaments I think we qualified in 11. So when you say 30 odd years, you mean 24 years and over a THIRD of the times we got knocked out were down to poor refereeing decisions. That is an absolute farce. And of the four examples I cited, only ONE of them would be resolved by goal line technology as it is now.

These are facts.

I'm sorry but the game IS broken at the highest level.

1986 to 2018 IS 30-odd years - you just didn't have any more howlers that have put us out of tournaments since 2010 (which was the Lampard one which has already been resolved now anyway), so that kind of reinforces my point. You've got to go all the way back to 1998 and Sol Campbell - would VARS have resulted in either of those headers being allowed ? Nobody can say, so that's not a "fact" at all. It would still just boil down to someones interpretation.

I just love the game, warts and all. Perfection does not exist, as we saw again last night. So there's no point trampling over what we have to reach for it. Ultimately, VARS will end up doing more harm than good IMO.