[Football] Ellen White Retires

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Oh great one of the fossils has derailed the thread. Can't we just celebrate the career of a remarkable footballer?

If that's me you are so wrong read what I've written not once have I put her achievements down.

Fossil am I?

I used to sponsor a girls team, I watch women's football I'm criticising the reporting of her retirement not her you fool.

 

[Easy 10]

She's had a fantastic career in womens football and has done her country proud.

Her stats are nothing to do with the mens game though, just as the stats between men/women golfers, tennis players, weighlifters etc are kept entirely separate. That doesn't trivialise her achievements one iota, but this mixing of the goalscoring records is for the birds.

Celebrate her career for what it is. She's the greatest England womens striker in history, and has earned that accolade within the field of her own sport.

 

[Simster]

She's had a fantastic career in womens football and has done her country proud.

Her stats are nothing to do with the mens game though, just as the stats between men/women golfers, tennis players, weighlifters etc are kept entirely separate. That doesn't trivialise her achievements one iota, but this mixing of the goalscoring records is for the birds.

Celebrate her career for what it is. She's the greatest England womens striker in history, and has earned that accolade within the field of her own sport.

We call them women these days.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

You've made a very insightful point there.

Sloppy journalism and lazy too with so much info freely available in the public domain.

It would've been more far more useful to have compared White with someone like the phenomenon of Canada's Christine Sinclair.

Having made her international debut in 2000, she's currently on 315 caps and has scored 190 goals for the Olympic champions.

An astonishing level of longevity even within women's football where international cap collection is generally more plentiful.

If the 39 year old plays in both fixtures against AUS in a fortnight, she'll go 2nd in the list of all time women's international caps.

For England, Fara Williams won 172 caps, but Jill Scott's currently on 161 and is likely to go past her in the next 12 months.

But all are still dwarfed by the USA's Kristine Lilly who sits alone on an incredible 354 caps over a 23 year international career.

Ellen White's 52 goals in 113 games (0.46) was impressive, but not as high as Sinclair's current strike rate of 0.60 goals/game.

So if the media must make comparisons between players, they should at least try and make them valid on the same playing field.

Thank you, that was the only point I made, yet some posters on here have attempted to turn it on me. Amazing that some feel the need to jump on someone when they are too thick or blind to actually take in what's being written. It's the rush to make things appear equal between the sexes instead of celebrating the person in the context of their own career.

 

[Easy 10]

We call them women these days.

Freudian slip

 

[Tom Bombadil]

If that's me you are so wrong read what I've written not once have I put her achievements down.

Fossil am I?

I used to sponsor a girls team, I watch women's football I'm criticising the reporting of her retirement not her you fool.

And i'm sure some of your best friends are women too

 

[Beanstalk]

You've made a very insightful point there.

You agree with the previous poster that "Not one report I've seen has her achievements been compared to any other women within the game." but the article you literally posted does as per below.

England's top goalscorers
53 - Wayne Rooney
52 - Ellen White
50 - Harry Kane
49 - Sir Bobby Charlton
48 - Gary Lineker
46 - Kelly Smith

And on top of that, that is the only comparison in the whole article. You've decided to cherry pick 15/1000 words in an article because it doesn't include a caveat and that fuels your argument. Maybe just read something like that and think "what a pointless stat, oh well" rather than going on a thinly veiled rant on the internet.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

And i'm sure some of your best friends are women too

Yes my best friend, my wife. Who died in January so **** off prick

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/27/womens-football-is-not-just-a-spin-off-of-the-mens-game-its-great-in-its-own-right

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Yes my best friend, my wife. Who died in January so **** off prick

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/27/womens-football-is-not-just-a-spin-off-of-the-mens-game-its-great-in-its-own-right

Oh dear, someone doesn't like their opinions challenged

 

[hart's shirt]

You agree with the previous poster that "Not one report I've seen has her achievements been compared to any other women within the game." but the article you literally posted does as per below.

England's top goalscorers
53 - Wayne Rooney
52 - Ellen White
50 - Harry Kane
49 - Sir Bobby Charlton
48 - Gary Lineker
46 - Kelly Smith

And on top of that, that is the only comparison in the whole article. You've decided to cherry pick 15/1000 words in an article because it doesn't include a caveat and that fuels your argument. Maybe just read something like that and think "what a pointless stat, oh well" rather than going on a thinly veiled rant on the internet.

Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't noticed Kelly Smith's name mentioned at the bottom of that list. I'll happily concede that one.

Nevertheless, I think the point of media responsibility in growing the women's game by avoiding unhelpful comparisons still stands. I've tried to back up my position in further posts with valid comparisons with other women's strikers like Christine Sinclair that negates the need to bring male players into the discussion. That was the crux of my response to PM's insightful point earlier. If we're going to compare, let's compare like with like.

There's nothing wrong with quoting from articles about football to support a position about football on a football message board. I did think "what a pointless stat" (and I've thought that for several months and posted the same as it usually got at least one mention on TV and on BBC Sport match reports in every Lionesses game leading up to the Euros), but that pointless stat even got a mention on both the 6pm and 10pm BBC evening news. I thought they could've done better and have always thought it did Ellen White a disservice. I still do. Yes, I could've ignored it, but if they hadn't kept mentioning it, I wouldn't have needed to!

None of the above should deflect away from applauding Ellen White's career which was fantastic. 113 caps and 52 goals, a great servant to club and country. Being just 33, I had hoped that she might've made it through to next year's WWC in AUS/NZ and bow out at the very top. Despite a below-par Euros, she might well have been good enough to be in the England squad that has a great chance of succeeding the USA as World Champions. And I'd have happily listened to all the comparisons about her breaking England records in the next 2 weeks if she'd have helped England to World Cup glory in 12 months time. But sadly, it wasn't to be.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Oh dear, someone doesn't like their opinions challenged

You haven't challenged my opinion at all you decided to insult me. That's just confirms your ignorance.

Argue the other way by all means but frankly I couldn't be bothered.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't noticed Kelly Smith's name mentioned at the bottom of that list. I'll happily concede that one.

Nevertheless, I think the point of media responsibility in growing the women's game by avoiding unhelpful comparisons still stands. I've tried to back up my position in further posts with valid comparisons with other women's strikers like Christine Sinclair that negates the need to bring male players into the discussion. That was the crux of my response to PM's insightful point earlier. If we're going to compare, let's compare like with like.

There's nothing wrong with quoting from articles about football to support a position about football on a football message board. I did think "what a pointless stat" (and I've thought that for several months and posted the same as it usually got at least one mention on TV and on BBC Sport match reports in every Lionesses game leading up to the Euros), but that pointless stat even got a mention on both the 6pm and 10pm BBC evening news. I thought they could've done better and have always thought it did Ellen White a disservice. I still do. Yes, I could've ignored it, but if they hadn't kept mentioning it, I wouldn't have needed to!

None of the above should deflect away from applauding Ellen White's career which was fantastic. 113 caps and 52 goals, a great servant to club and country. Being just 33, I had hoped that she might've made it through to next year's WWC in AUS/NZ and bow out at the very top. Despite a below-par Euros, she might well have been good enough to be in the England squad that has a great chance of succeeding the USA as World Champions. And I'd have happily listened to all the comparisons about her breaking England records in the next 2 weeks if she'd have helped England to World Cup glory in 12 months time. But sadly, it wasn't to be.

I totally agree. I was expecting a better report on her career especially relating to the later years and the progression of women's football in this country. I just get insulted though. Ho hum

 

[Durlston]

What a great servant to the England Lionesses. She didn't have the best Euros but came mighty close in a few games to scoring more than the two goals she got. I like her. I remember her for those tears against the USA in the last World Cup, semi-final. But ultimately she has been England's best ever female striker.

I expect she might want to start a family before she leaves it too late. Thanks Ellen for all your efforts. May you have a very happy retirement.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

Yes my best friend, my wife. Who died in January so **** off prick

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/27/womens-football-is-not-just-a-spin-off-of-the-mens-game-its-great-in-its-own-right

Sorry to hear of your loss. There really are some horrible people about. Looks like there’s another dipstick for my ignore list.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I applaud Ellen White for making this decision now. It is clear that although she is still a great player she is on the decline, other England players have overtaken her and deserve to start ahead of her.

She will always be England's first household name female striker, she raised the bar and I'm sure she'll go on to be a great ambassador for the women's game too. Bravo Ellen!

 

[chrisg]

Same goal celebration as Trossard.
No idea who did it first ?

 

[hart's shirt]

For England, Fara Williams won 172 caps, but Jill Scott's currently on 161 and is likely to go past her in the next 12 months.

What a difference a few hours make.

Jill Scott's just announced her retirement.