[Albion] Elite Coaches/Managers

[Super Sub]

After listening to Pep making his excuses for dropping points post match, it got me thinking... just how good are the so called elite? I have no doubt that the likes of Pep, Klopp, Poch, Arteta and Ancelotti etc are very good at what they do but they are all doing it with eye watering budgets.
I wonder how they would get on with our budget for players? Ancelotti hardly set the world alight at Everton. Poch was sacked by Spurs and Pep, Klopp and Arteta seem to constantly be whining about the need to buy in more superstars.
For me, i am delighted with what we have and think if there was a world manager of the year then RDZ would be head and shoulders above the rest all things considered.

 

[beorhthelm]

Potter is the counter example, all those riches and fluffed it. you do need to be good as well as having the players.

 

[Super Sub]

Potter is the counter example, all those riches and fluffed it. you do need to be good as well as having the players.

Is Potter an elite coach though? I completely agree as mentioned re the mangers still needing to be very good. I guess i just wonder if any of them would have got anymore out of what we have to offer in terms of players, budget and league position. IMHO i think RDZ has done as well as any of the others would have done

 

[Commander]

Potter is the counter example, all those riches and fluffed it. you do need to be good as well as having the players.

I don't think there is a manager in the world that could have made that job work, to be fair to him. The riches made it harder, not easier.

 

[GJN1]

I don't think there is a manager in the world that could have made that job work, to be fair to him. The riches made it harder, not easier.

And he didn't sign the players.

 

[Sepulveda]

Different coaches are good for different jobs/circumstances (which present different problems to solve and manage.)

There are excellent second-division/smaller-club coaches who don't have the right method or skillset to coach a top club, and there are top club coaches who don't have the right method or skillset to coach at a slightly lower level with limited resources.

Then for example there are even more "specialized" coaches like Conte who try to coach top clubs as if they were always second division clubs struggling desperately for promotion - and it works short term as long as they have to climb up from a very low point, but as soon as they retain their normal level he gets naturally rejected.

It's technically impossible to say who the universal "best" coach is; what you can objectively judge is whether he reached the club's targets for the season, whether he did his job. Or, like many you can judge by trophies and results but those obviously aren't won by a coach on his own but rather by his team of players and the club etc.

 

[GallodiMare]

After listening to Pep making his excuses for dropping points post match, it got me thinking... just how good are the so called elite? I have no doubt that the likes of Pep, Klopp, Poch, Arteta and Ancelotti etc are very good at what they do but they are all doing it with eye watering budgets.
I wonder how they would get on with our budget for players? Ancelotti hardly set the world alight at Everton. Poch was sacked by Spurs and Pep, Klopp and Arteta seem to constantly be whining about the need to buy in more superstars.
For me, i am delighted with what we have and think if there was a world manager of the year then RDZ would be head and shoulders above the rest all things considered.

Completely agree.
Ancelotti won championships and many trophies in Europe as a coach when he had teams with powerful financial means: Juventus, Milan, Chelsea, PSG, Real Madrid, Bayern.
When he was in Everton and Napoli he didn't win so much, to say nothing.
I never thought he had a game system to offer.
I think he's good at managing a locker room.
His record as a player and as a coach helps him in that aspect.
I think he knows how to apply the famous emotional and motivational intelligence: all qualities that a modern manager should have.
(This discussion could still be very long but I don't think it interests many, even if I think they are crucial differences when it comes to judging a coach)

 

[BluesRockDJ]

Listened to TalkSport, for my sins, on the way back to Dorset last night and in a roundabout way this subject came up. A City supporter came on and said how fantastic Guardiola had done coming into City, compared to Fergie at Utd. The presenter made the point that when Guardiola came into City, he already had a squad of "superstar" £m signings that had already won the Prem, whereas Fergie came in relying on blooding the infamous "Class of '92" to bring on.
I have no infinity with either Manchester club !! Seagulls supporter for at least 60 years when we were called the Shrimps !!

 

[GallodiMare]

Different coaches are good for different jobs/circumstances (which present different problems to solve and manage.)

There are excellent second-division/smaller-club coaches who don't have the right method or skillset to coach a top club, and there are top club coaches who don't have the right method or skillset to coach at a slightly lower level with limited resources.

Then for example there are even more "specialized" coaches like Conte who try to coach top clubs as if they were always second division clubs struggling desperately for promotion - and it works short term as long as they have to climb up from a very low point, but as soon as they retain their normal level he gets naturally rejected.

It's technically impossible to say who the universal "best" coach is; what you can objectively judge is whether he reached the club's targets for the season, whether he did his job. Or, like many you can judge by trophies and results but those obviously aren't won by a coach on his own but rather by his team of players and the club etc.

You are right about Conte.

Yet he won with Juventus, Chelsea and Inter.
His first season at Spurs wasn't bad.
His problem is that he was always drastic and too loud (an admission of weakness) when players were out on the pitch battling it out.
The same problem that I think De Zerbi has. Ok, you've been a player, you've explained the tactics in the dressing room, now just let them play.
If you continue like this, your players will end up hating you.
No need to whistle with your fingers in your mouth to get attention.
They know what they have to do, they are not children, you educated them properly.
Sometimes when one man still feels like a player it can be a boomerang.
Claudio Ranieri, a gentleman, has never argued with anyone.
He won an EPL with a handful of players no one had previously judged as champions.
However, for the cohesion of the team, for the sense of belonging, he organized convivial lunches or dinners every week with all the Leicester players, including their wives, children and girlfriends, just to have or imagine other human ties that could cement a team.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

After listening to Pep making his excuses for dropping points post match, it got me thinking... just how good are the so called elite? I have no doubt that the likes of Pep, Klopp, Poch, Arteta and Ancelotti etc are very good at what they do but they are all doing it with eye watering budgets.
I wonder how they would get on with our budget for players? Ancelotti hardly set the world alight at Everton. Poch was sacked by Spurs and Pep, Klopp and Arteta seem to constantly be whining about the need to buy in more superstars.
For me, i am delighted with what we have and think if there was a world manager of the year then RDZ would be head and shoulders above the rest all things considered.

I don't know the details of Klopp's time at Mainz and Dortmund, but I assume he didn't have the budget to go out and buy whoever he wanted at those clubs.

 

[Whoislloydy]

Potter is the counter example, all those riches and fluffed it. you do need to be good as well as having the players.

I think his situation is difficult to judge as Chelsea are such a mess and none of those signings are his signings, Boehly far too involved and just buying anyone and everyone.

 

[Sepulveda]

You are right about Conte.

Yet he won with Juventus, Chelsea and Inter.
His first season at Spurs wasn't bad.
His problem is that he was always drastic and too loud (an admission of weakness) when players were out on the pitch battling it out.
The same problem that I think De Zerbi has. Ok, you've been a player, you've explained the tactics in the dressing room, now just let them play.
If you continue like this, your players will end up hating you.
No need to whistle with your fingers in your mouth to get attention.
They know what they have to do, they are not children, you educated them properly.
Sometimes when one man still feels like a player it can be a boomerang.
Claudio Ranieri, a gentleman, has never argued with anyone.
He won an EPL with a handful of players no one had previously judged as champions.
However, for the cohesion of the team, for the sense of belonging, he organized convivial lunches or dinners every week with all the Leicester players, including their wives, children and girlfriends, just to have or imagine other human ties that could cement a team.

There are many "shouty" managers who have done well and lasted long - Simeone is just one example that comes to mind, but Guardiola also isn't exactly always still. To be fair RDZ seems a bit less agitated than Conte on the touchline; but I think the most important aspect for players is how you as a coach behave in training during the week and in the dressing room, not whether you stay still or raise your voice on the touchline. And I think it's not a rational desire for control but more of an instinctive emotional reaction on some coaches' part, like they can't sit still and they instinctively want to intervene and react to the distressing spectacle that's happening in front of them. RDZ himself said that he doesn't control his players with a joystick and he wants them to make their own mistakes and take their own decisions during the match.

 

[GallodiMare]

There are many "shouty" managers who have done well and lasted long - Simeone is just one example that comes to mind, but Guardiola also isn't exactly always still. To be fair RDZ seems a bit less agitated than Conte on the touchline; but I think the most important aspect for players is how you as a coach behave in training during the week and in the dressing room, not whether you stay still or raise your voice on the touchline. And I think it's not a rational desire for control but more of an instinctive emotional reaction on some coaches' part, like they can't sit still and they instinctively want to intervene and react to the distressing spectacle that's happening in front of them. RDZ himself said that he doesn't control his players with a joystick and he wants them to make their own mistakes and take their own decisions during the match.

Could you tell me instead how Allegri behaves, given that you are a fan from Juventus?

 

[ozzygull]

I think his situation is difficult to judge as Chelsea are such a mess and none of those signings are his signings, Boehly far too involved and just buying anyone and everyone.

They were doing fine with Potter, I think he had won his previous nine games until they played us and then it turned to poo and just kept getting worse, Boehly then made it even worse by buying every player that he thought someone else wanted with no cohesive plan. By the time Potter was sacked he had started to get them playing again, but the thicko Chelsea fans along with the baying media wanted him replaced with Super Frank Lampard. That has gone well for them.

 

[Justice]

And he didn't sign the players.

RDZ didn’t sign any of our players either. The excuses for that man are outstanding on here. Reece James, J Felix, Enzo, Chilwell, Kante, Sterling to name a few are all quality players he couldn’t get a tune out of. There is no way Chelsea would be in the mess they are in if Tuchel hadn’t been sacked.

 

[Sepulveda]

Could you tell me instead how Allegri behaves, given that you are a fan from Juventus?

On the touchline? He's calm for the most part, aside from some moments where he goes nuclear but those are usually mostly reactions. When he has to communicate stuff to the players he obviously shouts in order to be heard.

But that's neither here nor there, Allegri has been both a good and a bad coach in different periods so it's not like he's a flawless example for coaches

 

[Sirnormangall]

Just trying to think if anyone called Frank has been a successful top level manager / coach?

 

[Rambo]

Just trying to think if anyone called Frank has been a successful top level manager / coach?

Frank Clark

 

[Perkino]

Managers each have their own philosophies, some instantly install a back 5 and hope to keep clean sheets whilst others look for a more possession based approach which brings greater player development. However every manager seems to have their own clear focus no matter which side they step into, that's why some have made careers out of battling relegation whilst others have only attracted title competing sides.

Very few are like Mourinho who build an almost water tight defence and a side who attack together however he rarely wins by more than 2 goals. Guardiola's sides always dominate possession and usually outscore but he would probably struggle in the Italian league. Ferguson was the master and knowing when to develop the next player and let a star go.

At Brighton we will only appoint managers who will be willing to develop young players and play a passing game. That's why CH left and Potter was approached and why RDZ was our priority target. The club is set up to maximise the academy and that approach will remain the focus, additionally when any manager leaves finding a replacement is simple because we know exactly what we want from the manager as well as how we support them to make progress.

Ironically many clubs are falling apart because of a lack of such an in depth plan and they subsequently jump around different managers unsuccessfully. It's worth noting the sides involved in a relegation battle have all opted to sack their managers this season and similarly many Arsenal fans wanted rid of Arteta during his first season but the board backed him

 

[WATFORD zero]

You forgot Fat Sam.

Although it is noticeable that while he claimed to be better than Pep, Klopp and Arteta, he didn't dare to claim he was anywhere near RDZ