[Misc] Electric Cars

[McTavish]

The biggest problem with getting an EV at the moment is that none are available. I test drove a handful early this year and ordered one in March and I have been told to expect it in November.

I am getting it as a lease through work where, similar to the ride to work scheme with bikes, the cost is taken from my wages before tax which reduces the cost considerably - a £40,000 car is going to cost me a touch over £200 a month on a three year lease.

 

[McTavish]

I had a bit of a chuckle myself. . . From an equivalence point of view there is a long way to go . . . .but we're a way off electric boy racer world.

Some of the electric variations loose their grille, traditionally one of the most identifiable features of an oncoming car . . .

Sound/noise is another one . . . . As someone who has raced I've heard the noisiest things on the planet which isn't pleasant. I've also heard the most beautiful mechanical noises . . . . Electric . . . R2D2 having a piss is a good one, the rest just annoy cats and run things own that don't look.

When someone comes up with the equivalent of an XR3i or a lotus Cortina, that kind of thing . . . Then the tide will turn . . . Something that appeals to car people, not hippies and religious freaks

So your problem with EVs is that you can't recognise them in your rear view mirror and they are too quiet?

 

[zefarelly]

Once they’ve got a 4th or 5th hand market going ..I MIGHT afford to be interested

Funny you say that, I've always thought every day cars are a monumental waste of money. The Alfa I had recently is the newest most expensive car I've ever had, 3rd owner, 5 years old . . . . Sold for a profit, thankfully/amazingly! Generally speaking I've always had old cars.

A classic, at least is an investment, even if it doesnt appreciate, it doesn't lose. Lemons aside. Now I'm working so close to home I'm in the realm of classic only, I 'need' to drive so infrequently I may well stick with a mk1 cortina, £100 a year to keep on the road

 

[zefarelly]

So your problem with EVs is that you can't recognise them in your rear view mirror and they are too quiet?

I have no problem with them at all . . . . But I understand why people are 'meh'

FWLIW i was never a boy racer, couldn't afford a car. . . Didn't have a car regularly until I was in my late 20's, did my yoof on 2 wheels, and later my 'speed' phase on track.

 

[wehatepalace]

fuel companies in partnership with most of the major car manufacturers are heavily investing in Efuel development, there will be a place for both, but let’s not forget no matter what happens electric cars are still far too expensive for a huge proportion of the population, and the major lack of infrastructure is a turn off for many. A combustion engined car running on a clean synthetic fuel will always be more popular than a electric car, if for no other reason that convenience.

I think the market has already dictated the next generation of drive train for the masses. And its electric.

Any new tech looking to usurp EV is already too late.

Too much has now been invested by the major car manufacturers, they ain't going to switch again any time soon.

With the phasing out of petrol car sales in 8 years, we're likely to see less and less investment in petrol cars and prices of electrics will begin to fall to similar levels of i.c.e. powered well before then.

Synthetic fuel will be sold at a premium for those with ice engined classics.

 

[dsr-burnley]

PCP
PCH
Lease
Loan to Buy

Can get an MG 5 for £2400 down, £253 a month.

Or Nissan Leaf for £2400 down, £250 a month

Vauxhall Corsa for £603 down, £300 a month.

Hyundai Ioniq for £3400 down, £265 a month

Given the shortages these deals are not even that good, but gives you an [emoji362]

How much to lease a second hand one? Do those lease prices include servicing?

I only wonder because I have a Corsa, and being a natural born accountant I keep fairly detailed records of finances, and in the first 3 years of owning the Corsa (pre-Covid) my total car expenses - petrol, servicing, repairs, insurance, RFL, AA, and the cost of buying the car - came to less than the £11,400 you're mentioning as lease costs. Have the second hand costs of Corsa dropped to £5k or so yet, and what's the reliability and service costs?

 

[GT49er]

The biggest problem with getting an EV at the moment is that none are available.

Actually, for a huge swathe of the population that is far from the biggest problem!

 

[zefarelly]

Classic car enthusiasts and hard-core petrol heads will be fuming.

Not in the slightest

people thought it was the end of the world when unleaded came out.

Some of us tune things up, then tune them down to accommodate the different fuels. all my classic fleet runs quite happily on eco piss. The race car requires special petrol, because that's the way I buit it . .. .it's readily available, at a price. A price that makes £2 a litre seem cheap!

synthetic fuels are an odd one, yes they work, but growing crops to produce them is not a viable option on a grand scale

 

[Greg Bobkin]

The biggest problem with getting an EV at the moment is that none are available. I test drove a handful early this year and ordered one in March and I have been told to expect it in November.

I am getting it as a lease through work where, similar to the ride to work scheme with bikes, the cost is taken from my wages before tax which reduces the cost considerably - a £40,000 car is going to cost me a touch over £200 a month on a three year lease.

That's not specific to just EVs. Land Rover freely admitted the other week that customers ordering a new Range Rover won't see it for at least a year.

 

[Audax]

Is going electric really that "good" for the environment ? We don't generate enough electric from non - nuclear renewables, I bet key components come from war torn bits of central Africa and the spent batteries will end up being dumped in Asia. Am I being cynical ?

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electric-and-hybrid/sustainability/recycling-your-battery.html

Have a read

 

[Icy Gull]

That's not specific to just EVs. Land Rover freely admitted the other week that customers ordering a new Range Rover won't see it for at least a year.

It's hilarious that people want Range Rovers, who have a pretty appalling reliability rating whilst dismissing all Italian cars as being unreliable because they were 40 years ago

Is there an EV Range Rover on the horizon?

 

[RandyWanger]

I have a MHEV Land Rover, they do offer a PHEV and All-Electric.
Issue with Land/Range Rover is they're made in Liverpool and the QC is terrible. Looks good on the drive though and makes the neighbours jealous which is what it is all about really.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

It's hilarious that people want Range Rovers, who have a pretty appalling reliability rating whilst dismissing all Italian cars as being unreliable because they were 40 years ago

Is there an EV Range Rover on the horizon?

The market for that sort of car is huge – and the arrival of the likes of Bentley into it has only pushed things up a notch. Average spend on a new RR is now £125k!

Yes, there's an EV version coming next year, I think.

 

[Audax]

Yes, and what many people seem unable to get their heads round, Boris Johnson-like, is that for many of us mere plebs the £30K initial starter stake in the new shiney green uplands is something that hasn't been made avilable to us, hard working people and benefit scroungers alike.

Over to you, clever people!

As with ICE cars, once the second hand market kicks in properly it will help on that side. Also, as the first-hand market grows and the tech improves the upfront costs will come down. Today, we're absolutely in the realm of EV's being for those who can afford the higher up-front cost. It won't be long before that changes, though, as the gap between up-front costs of an ICE vs an EV shrinks. EVs are cheaper to own long term already, there will be a tipping point somewhere between now and 2030 (I'm confident it'll be closer to 2025 than 2030) where (for those who can afford to buy new) an EV will be the no-brained better choice from an economic view, then within a few years of that the second hand market will be filling out for those who can't afford to buy new. It doesn't take much future-thinking to see that it is going to happen. It's just a matter of when.

Vimes' Boots Theory of Economics very much at play here, though, you're dead right.

 

[Audax]

Hmmm, I've been covering this type of stuff and talking to people in the industry for more than 20 years and I'm not so sure. Yes, the market has picked up pace when it comes to development over that time, what I'm hearing is still a lot of the same promises. When it comes to cars/batteries, It's likely to be evolution, not revolution. IMO, like...

Sounds like you might be a bit closer to it than me, I'm going on press articles I've been seeing over the last 12-24 months. Plenty of ongoing R&D into battery tech that looks good on paper (IIRC at least one of which at the stage of being road tested). There's 2-3 or three that are supposedly expected to be ready between now and 2026/27. And it's well documented that the cost per kWh for battery storage has been coming down massively. We don't see it in the price tags for new EV's because they're using that cost reduction to increase range. Once range is good enough to alleviate range-anxiety in buyers' minds we'll then see a switch over to using the dropping cost per kWh storage being used to reduce the price tag.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Sounds like you might be a bit closer to it than me, I'm going on press articles I've been seeing over the last 12-24 months. Plenty of ongoing R&D into battery tech that looks good on paper (IIRC at least one of which at the stage of being road tested). There's 2-3 or three that are supposedly expected to be ready between now and 2026/27. And it's well documented that the cost per kWh for battery storage has been coming down massively. We don't see it in the price tags for new EV's because they're using that cost reduction to increase range. Once range is good enough to alleviate range-anxiety in buyers' minds we'll then see a switch over to using the dropping cost per kWh storage being used to reduce the price tag.

I deal predominantly with the tech/engineering side of things, so probably get a more 'honest' or less consumer-y view of things. You're right that there is massive resources being poured into R&D for the cars and the batteries, but I don't see huge changes from where we are now. For example, range anxiety can be alleviated by a change in mindset (as I said at the start) and an improved charging infrastructure. Then people shouldn't need to worry about where they will be able to fill up because the (public) options will be all over the place. It's already happening at supermarkets, big car parks and mobile charging stations.

What hasn't helped people who might have been thinking about going EV is that the Government has just scrapped the plug-in car grant: https://fleetworld.co.uk/government-closes-plug-in-car-grant-to-focus-on-improving-ev-charging/

 

[Audax]

What hasn't helped people who might have been thinking about going EV is that the Government has just scrapped the plug-in car grant: https://fleetworld.co.uk/government-closes-plug-in-car-grant-to-focus-on-improving-ev-charging/

Urrgh... Just another step in this Tory government's long-running degradation of pro-climate initiatives.

 

[happypig]

Is there an EV Range Rover on the horizon?

If there is, it's parked on the pavement.

 

[beorhthelm]

Urrgh... Just another step in this Tory government's long-running degradation of pro-climate initiatives.

or, its time we stopped subsidising those who can afford a new EV. moving funding to charging is benefical longer term Shirley?

 

[Icy Gull]

If there is, it's parked on the pavement.

or double yellows outside a school