[Misc] Electric Cars

[Nobby Cybergoat]

This will be fascinating in the future, I must say. I'm starting to think about getting one: most of my journeys are 12 miles to work and back: certainly I don't often do journeys over 20 miles apart from football trips. I have the space at home for a charger, however. Would be very different if I lived in the middle of Brighton where all the parking is on-street. Where there are charging points, people with petrol or diesel cars often park in them (probably the same ones who park in disabled bays when they're not entitled to) and block them off for EV users

I also wonder how all this will work with areas of very high density accommodation, such as parts of London. I know not everyone has or needs a car in such places, but if you're on the fifteenth floor of a tower block, I suppose you might reasonably wonder how on earth the infrastructure will cope if so many people need charging points.

This bit is true, but to keep millions of petrol cars running around the roads also takes an incredible infrastructure, that, whilst we take it for granted now, would have seemed inconceivable when petrol cars were first becoming popular.

 

[mikeyjh]

Thinking about getting one, partly to do the right thing but also partly as I can't see any end to the fuel price inflation. Who already has one, who is thinking about getting one. What are the pros and cons of those that have one. Range and availability of power plugs seems to be the big gripes, what else?

This article always sticks in my head as a good gauge of what life is with an EV

I've often found that if someone is anti-EV, or at least a bit of a doubter, they'll throw anything to do them down. That means price, charging, driving range, the type of person who drives them, etc, etc. It's all a load of balls – they often don't like change.

I think that's a tad harsh - I'm a change agent and we've considered an EV but there are so many challenges if, as we do, you live in a rural environment. Firstly, the whole valley we're in, apparently, is single phase, (I am not an expert on this front but certainly there's not an abundance of power available, our light flicker when the kettle goes on) our spark says we couldn't have a super fast charger! Secondly, we regularly travel down to Swansea to see father in law. It's about 100 miles each way but it's changing speeds all the time, lots of twisty turny roads and very hilly. There are very very few fast chargers on the way and we're rarely able to park outside the house.

So, I am definitely a doubter - We will be keeping an eye on things but I think my concerns are reasonably well founded. You're absolutely right of course, the issue isn't the vehicles, it's the infrastructure....

 

[The Oldman]

I Leased a a Honda Jazz HEV September last year. Have done 3000 miles and mpg is around 69. . In 9 months I have topped up petrol 6 times usually when tank is down to a quarter full. Full tank range is over 500 miles. I do realise a Jazz is not everyone's car of choice but it does illustrate what a self charging hybrid. can do

 

[Greg Bobkin]

This article always sticks in my head as a good gauge of what life is with an EV



I think that's a tad harsh - I'm a change agent and we've considered an EV but there are so many challenges if, as we do, you live in a rural environment. Firstly, the whole valley we're in, apparently, is single phase, (I am not an expert on this front but certainly there's not an abundance of power available, our light flicker when the kettle goes on) our spark says we couldn't have a super fast charger! Secondly, we regularly travel down to Swansea to see father in law. It's about 100 miles each way but it's changing speeds all the time, lots of twisty turny roads and very hilly. There are very very few fast chargers on the way and we're rarely able to park outside the house.

So, I am definitely a doubter - We will be keeping an eye on things but I think my concerns are reasonably well founded. You're absolutely right of course, the issue isn't the vehicles, it's the infrastructure....

Fair comments. I don't think I'd put you in the category of people I'm talking about. I'm talking about people who are 100% against having anything to do with the cars. To the point where it's not worth pointing out that no, the car won't catch fire when there's a bit of lightning and yes, actually, things WILL be dramatically different by 2030. The EV infrastructure industry is going after the low-hanging fruit – urban areas, motorway networks, etc – so it (unfortunately) stands to reason that more rural areas will be the last to benefit. Doesn't make it right or fair for you guys, but I kinda get the approach.

I'm interested to see the article you mentioned...

 

[albionalbino]

I've got a BMWi3 and love it. It'g got great acceleration, fun to drive and 140 miles range plus another 60 if you use the range extender. I've had it 8 months now and no inclination to change back to petrol.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

My concern is that advances in technology could make an EV purchased today outdated in, say, 3 years time with the resultant impact on depreciation and ability to sell.

Yes. More expensive than old tech cars, but one suspects more swift to become obsolete. I want to go electric but not yet.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

I've got a BMWi3 and love it. It'g got great acceleration, fun to drive and 140 miles range plus another 60 if you use the range extender. I've had it 8 months now and no inclination to change back to petrol.

I've had the same car, with the Extender, for 3.5 years. One of my favourite ever cars. Waiting for the i4 now as my lease expires.

 

[schmunk]

Honda Jazz

Name checks out.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I've got an e-Golf (fully electric) and a hybrid Volvo. Getting an Audi E-tron (fully electric) once the Volvo lease is up next year. Can't really see why anyone who doesn't do regular 150 + mile journeys would want a petrol car.

Is this a wind-up? Do you genuinely not see any reason why someone with lack of spare cash and no driveway wouldn't want an electric car?

 

[Seecider]

Is going electric really that "good" for the environment ? We don't generate enough electric from non - nuclear renewables, I bet key components come from war torn bits of central Africa and the spent batteries will end up being dumped in Asia. Am I being cynical ?

 

[GT49er]

It's all those oiks running round in 10-15-20 year old Ford Focusses, Fiestas, Vauxhall Novas, Nissan Micras etc., etc. that's the problem. Some of them even drive diesels FFS - just because they do 60+ MPG! The Government is doing it's best of course - whacking up higher Road Tax charges (which they don't charge to wealthier owners of expensive vehicles) and allowing some local authorities to fleece them whenever they inadvertantly stray into a 'Clear Air Zone' (or similar) for a few yards/minutes. They even throw in scrappage schemes of a £thousand or two (with qualifications!) .......................

..... and still the selfisn b*st*rds on, or just above, minimum wage won't go out and buy a decent environmentally friendly electric car (environmentally friendly until the batteries need to be scrapped anyway). It's unbelievable, inexpliccable - it's beyond me to guess why, so inevitably it's way beyond our pathetic Tory Government to even get close to working out why........................

Surely, if they weren't spendtrift and irresponsible. always buying takeaways, smartphones and 50 inch TVs, all decent chaps should have the odd £30K knocking around spare somewhere, shouldn't they?




So - to give a short, succinct and serious arguement against electric cars: most of us can't afford them.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

If only Nikolai Tesla had been able to realise his belief that electricity could be generated wirelessly, over long distances, for free.

 

[Audax]

True, but it's cost.

£30k+ for a new car, or approx £500 p/m for a lease

Even with the crazy petrol prices the economics still point in that direction

It's already been shown that the total cost of ownership for an EV across multiple years of ownership is better with an EV than an ICE. You pay more for the EV up-front (although that differential is dropping all the time), but you then pay a lot less in running costs.

What sort of EV are you looking at that costs £500 p/m? My Zoe is £294 and I'm paying massively over the odds at the moment as I massively over-estimated how many miles I'd need. Will be getting a contract variation soon to reduce the miles, which will reduce the cost. That also includes maintenance and tyres.

What sort of advances? Battery technology isn't moving that fast to the point of the current packs being obsolete and cars haven't fundamentally changed that much – it's only the power source. Plus there will naturally be a strong used market in a few years, so I couldn't see any issues with selling one when you're done with it.

There is the prospect of some quite big shifts in battery tech in the next few years. The cost per kWh of storage capacity has been coming down rapidly, and there's several battery R&D projects ongoing that, if successful, could revolutionise EV's.

Having said that, you're right that the second hand market will be just fine. We're not talking about first gen Zoe's and Leaf's where the battery is knackered and only gives 50 miles of range as second hand options anymore. We're talking about Tesla's and latest gen Zoe's, Leaf's, VW ID3's etc that'll be landing on a second hand market in 2-3 years that (if the government does it's blinking job right) will have been primed for people looking to switch.



I've got a Zoe. Will have had it 2 years in September. Got it on a 4 year lease, with a *huge* mileage allowance as I was expecting to use it for work commuting ... I'll be getting a contract variation soon to reduce the mileage (for a second time...) as I'm now almost fully WFH.

Anyway, the car itself:

- Roomier interior than you might expect for a small EV. Can get almost as much in its boot as I could in a larger Prius.
- Summer range is great at around 240 miles. Winter not so much, bottoms out around 160 miles. *However* - big caveat on that: doing lots of short trips in winter will damage your mileage far more than doing longer trips. 5 trips of 20 miles each will hurt your mileage far more than doing a single trip of 100 miles.
- Works great with solar panels to charge it when the sun's out. I should really be tracking how much I actually spend per mile, but this time of year with the sun out it's not much. eg just today I've had a little over 5kWh of charge for free so far, and today's not been a good day with lengthy periods behind cloud. I'm getting around 4.4 miles per kWh for the short trips I'm doing currently, so I've had a little over 22 miles of range topped up for free.
- When the sun isn't doing the job, I've got Octopus Go for my electricity supply. That gives me 4 hours over night charging at 7.5p per kWh (vs the 35.66 regular rate) - that'll help massively come winter, as my home charger can be scheduled to make use of that.

 

[wehatepalace]

Synthetic Efuel is just around the corner, that will be another option and a much greener option than fossil fuels, but I absolutely dread to think what they’ll charge us for that !!!!!

 

[southstandandy]

My neighbour has one and for his short journeys swears by it. The only issue he says is that if you use other electrics at the same time, eg air con, cd player, wipers lights etc then the range drops quite a bit. But as he only does shortish journeys he reckons they are worth the initial expense.

 

[Icy Gull]

I've got a BMWi3 and love it. It'g got great acceleration, fun to drive and 140 miles range plus another 60 if you use the range extender. I've had it 8 months now and no inclination to change back to petrol.

All true but as an old petrol head the soundtrack is Singer sewing machine, I struggle with having a car like that, but that's just me

My neighbour has a VW ID3 (?) and can't turn off the lane keeping assistance permanently and has to switch it off every time he drives it. That would drive me nuts

 

[Commander]

Is this a wind-up? Do you genuinely not see any reason why someone with lack of spare cash and no driveway wouldn't want an electric car?

Sorry, I should have worded it 'I can't see why anybody who could have an electric car would opt for a petrol car unless they are doing regular 100+ mile journeys.'

 

[Greg Bobkin]

There is the prospect of some quite big shifts in battery tech in the next few years. The cost per kWh of storage capacity has been coming down rapidly, and there's several battery R&D projects ongoing that, if successful, could revolutionise EV's.

Hmmm, I've been covering this type of stuff and talking to people in the industry for more than 20 years and I'm not so sure. Yes, the market has picked up pace when it comes to development over that time, what I'm hearing is still a lot of the same promises. When it comes to cars/batteries, It's likely to be evolution, not revolution. IMO, like...

 

[banjo]

Leased a a Honda Jazz

 

[beorhthelm]

Is going electric really that "good" for the environment ? We don't generate enough electric from non - nuclear renewables, I bet key components come from war torn bits of central Africa and the spent batteries will end up being dumped in Asia. Am I being cynical ?

partially. battery recycling is quite advanced, built into thinking of EV and can be done relativly cleanly. however we need near double present electric generating capacity to replace oil. while also moving that capacity green.