[Travel] Electric cars

[beorhthelm]

hybrids are the future, not all-electric. the problems of range and recharging go away, benefits of lower emissions remain, albeit reduced. well tuned diesels powering indirect electric drive would probably best compromise, but diesel has got a dirty name now.

 

[marcos3263]

I am excited about electric and hope my next car will be one (4 years left of my current car loan) I have a driveway and daily short commute so no issues there.

The infrastructure needs to improve - I went to Ikea on Sunday and there were 3 electric bays in a car park of thousands. All three were full and charging.

I love the Teslas and the Jaguar ipace - so also just need the £60k to buy one.

If everyone can donate just £10 then I will be the guinea pig for NSC and let you know how I get on......

 

[wehatepalace]

Plug in hybrids are the future

 

[GT49er]

At the moment, because of the lack of infrastructure, I imagine most owners of electric cars own a second (petrol or diesel) car too. Can't afford to run two cars myself - couldn't afford even one electric one.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

hybrids are the future, not all-electric. the problems of range and recharging go away, benefits of lower emissions remain, albeit reduced. well tuned diesels powering indirect electric drive would probably best compromise, but diesel has got a dirty name now.

Hybrids are the short term future. All electric will be the norm once the infrastructure is in place.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

I've been thinking about converting one of my Lambrettas to electric, just for local zipping about. . . . . cars will get there but the cost, sustainability and carbon footprint are all highly questionable compared to a sensible modern petrol car.

I hope that was a joke, you'll miss the pop pop pop, sacrilege! ps how many do you have?

 

[nwgull]

Plug in hybrids are the future

I have a plug-in hybrid and love it for both the driving experience and economy. Government grant of £500 just about paid for the installation of a covenient charge point on my drive, and a full charge has a 25 mile range. This gets me to work 20 miles away, where I'm fortunate enough to have access to charge points in the office car park. It's not exagerating to say that I get over 2000 miles in between filling the tank up.

Cost of an electric mile is somewhere between 4-5p, so a saving of about 9-10p a mile. I estimate that I save about £100 a month on fuel alone, in addition to zero VED.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Have you got one? No
Are you thinking of getting one? Very much yes
Why do you want one? They have the potential to save me a lot of money and reduce greenhouse gas emissions
Why don't you want one? N/A

Been investigating EVs for a while now. When my ICE car died about 18 months ago I decided to wait before buying again until there was a suitable EV that met my requirements.

We're almost there, and with a slew of new EVs on the way soon, with denser and cheaper batteries and longer ranges I'll be taking the plunge within the next year.

The ideal setup would be home solar, powering a battery system during the day and then charge the car for free overnight, but even charging from the grid is cheaper than buying fuel for a gas car.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I have a plug-in hybrid and love it for both the driving experience and economy. Government grant of £500 just about paid for the installation of a covenient charge point on my drive, and a full charge has a 25 mile range. This gets me to work 20 miles away, where I'm fortunate enough to have access to charge points in the office car park. It's not exagerating to say that I get over 2000 miles in between filling the tank up.

Cost of an electric mile is somewhere between 4-5p, so a saving of about 9-10p a mile. I estimate that I save about £100 a month on fuel alone, in addition to zero VED.

My sister in law drives a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, and 99% of the time she never uses petrol and simply uses the 25 mile range on electric only.

 

[DavePage]

Had a Scalextric years ago, found the handling at speed around bends could be problematic

 

[Audax]

Also worth mentioning that a lot Think Tanks’ findings should be take with a pinch of salt. Who knows who funded the research...

Exactly this. I didn't read the whole article in detail, but from my quick skim read it looked like they weren't accounting for variables that they really should be:

* Electric vehicles *should* last a lot longer without needing replacement. Far easier to maintain overall, far fewer moving parts that can break, should mean that the average electric vehicle remains roadworthy for a lot longer than the average petrol or diesel. Yes, the batteries need replacement every 10-ish years, but their lifespans are getting better and better with every year that passes and so are the manufacturing processes. In theory, you should be looking at the engine and chassis lasting through 2-3 (if not more) batteries. By contrast, my wife's 6 year old Ecoboost Focus (roughly 45k miles, serviced by the book) is currently sitting at a Ford dealer awaiting major engine surgery. (Look up "Ecoboom" if you want to know why not to buy a Ford Eco-anything)

* It doesn't appear to take into account that electric vehicles move the source of the pollution. Looking at the whole carbon footprint is great, I get it, but it's also important to look at *where* the pollution is being generated. Step 1: get the pollution out of our cities and residential streets. Step 2: clean up the actual generation (already in progress around much of the world). (Steps 1 and 2 can be done side-by-side, but if Step 1 is easier to achieve in the short term than I'm all in favour of doing it).

I saw a different report from Europe a few months back that looked at it from a consumer point of view, where they were saying that over a given X years electric cars are already more cost effective than petrol or diesel. Yes, there's a higher up-front cost, but once you've seen out the typical 4-5 year lease or loan contract the electric will actually have cost significantly less per mile (and the more miles you do, the bigger the advantage to the electric becomes).

Not currently, need the market to mature more.

Currently there is little detail on the residual value of the car. Given that the battery is a huge cost and has a life of 7/8 years? Does the value of an electric car plummet the closer you get to the end of the battery life. Or will pricing models from manufacturers develop where you buy the car but lease the battery or similar,

Theoretically, the buyer of an electric car should be keeping that car a lot longer. They have far fewer long term maintenance problems to be worried about. If we assume a £5000 replacement battery outlay at 10 years, it's likely that an ICE vehicle has already required several expensive repairs before then, especially if it's a manual, and from what I see on the roads there aren't that many ICE vehicles being kept much longer than 10 years. So the comparison could be a £5000 battery at 10 years vs a whole new car at 10 years (or before).

My worry with electric cars is how much it will cost to replace the batteries when they go

Again, the overall lifespan of the vehicle as a whole should more than compensate.

----------------------

I'm currently ending year 3 of a 4 year company car lease on a Prius. Love the car, and we might buy it out next year to replace the Focus (assuming the Focus survives that long). I'll almost certainly be replacing it with full electric. The office is 65 miles each way commute, and has electric charging in the underground carpark. I'll probably be able to do that switch without it costing me any extra in terms of the lease, so I'm probably looking at being at least £40 per week better off (if not more if petrol prices continue to go up - I'm currently spending nearly £45 a week).

 

[Audax]

The ideal setup would be home solar, powering a battery system during the day and then charge the car for free overnight, but even charging from the grid is cheaper than buying fuel for a gas car.

I've got the solar panels already, absolutely solid investment. Not gone for home battery yet, as last I looked they weren't cost effective. We went for a diverting any excess power into our hot water system instead, and that's cut our gas bills down a lot. Full EV car is hopefully happening this time next year. The tech is just about there now, especially for folks like me where the company I work for provides electric charge points.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I've got the solar panels already, absolutely solid investment. Not gone for home battery yet, as last I looked they weren't cost effective. We went for a diverting any excess power into our hot water system instead, and that's cut our gas bills down a lot. Full EV car is hopefully happening this time next year. The tech is just about there now, especially for folks like me where the company I work for provides electric charge points.

That's a massive bonus for you as you (I assume) get free charging whilst you work. This obviously reduces the need to charge at home overnight as well.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Exactly this. I didn't read the whole article in detail, but from my quick skim read it looked like they weren't accounting for variables that they really should be:

* Electric vehicles *should* last a lot longer without needing replacement. Far easier to maintain overall, far fewer moving parts that can break, should mean that the average electric vehicle remains roadworthy for a lot longer than the average petrol or diesel. Yes, the batteries need replacement every 10-ish years, but their lifespans are getting better and better with every year that passes and so are the manufacturing processes. In theory, you should be looking at the engine and chassis lasting through 2-3 (if not more) batteries. By contrast, my wife's 6 year old Ecoboost Focus (roughly 45k miles, serviced by the book) is currently sitting at a Ford dealer awaiting major engine surgery. (Look up "Ecoboom" if you want to know why not to buy a Ford Eco-anything)

* It doesn't appear to take into account that electric vehicles move the source of the pollution. Looking at the whole carbon footprint is great, I get it, but it's also important to look at *where* the pollution is being generated. Step 1: get the pollution out of our cities and residential streets. Step 2: clean up the actual generation (already in progress around much of the world). (Steps 1 and 2 can be done side-by-side, but if Step 1 is easier to achieve in the short term than I'm all in favour of doing it).

I saw a different report from Europe a few months back that looked at it from a consumer point of view, where they were saying that over a given X years electric cars are already more cost effective than petrol or diesel. Yes, there's a higher up-front cost, but once you've seen out the typical 4-5 year lease or loan contract the electric will actually have cost significantly less per mile (and the more miles you do, the bigger the advantage to the electric becomes).



Theoretically, the buyer of an electric car should be keeping that car a lot longer. They have far fewer long term maintenance problems to be worried about. If we assume a £5000 replacement battery outlay at 10 years, it's likely that an ICE vehicle has already required several expensive repairs before then, especially if it's a manual, and from what I see on the roads there aren't that many ICE vehicles being kept much longer than 10 years. So the comparison could be a £5000 battery at 10 years vs a whole new car at 10 years (or before).




Again, the overall lifespan of the vehicle as a whole should more than compensate.

----------------------

I'm currently ending year 3 of a 4 year company car lease on a Prius. Love the car, and we might buy it out next year to replace the Focus (assuming the Focus survives that long). I'll almost certainly be replacing it with full electric. The office is 65 miles each way commute, and has electric charging in the underground carpark. I'll probably be able to do that switch without it costing me any extra in terms of the lease, so I'm probably looking at being at least £40 per week better off (if not more if petrol prices continue to go up - I'm currently spending nearly £45 a week).

On the battery front Nissan data is suggesting that batteries are lasting considerably longer than 10 years, and in fact out living the vehicle.

There is now a secondary market for used EV batteries where they are being used for energy storage solutions for homes.

 

[Nibbler]

We have a three year old Zoe and it's a great car. We get about 180 miles from a single charge on the driveway about every 7-10 days. The battery is hired from Renault for £70 per month so obviously this is the main cost, but it means that when the efficiency falls below a certain threshold it is replaced for free. It's perfect for local journeys but we also have a large diesel car for long family trips. Not ideal but at least the majority of our journeys are emission free.

The drive itself is wonderfully smooth and quiet. Electric cars are the future so I'm baffled as to why the government are not doing more to encourage their use.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

http://ow.ly/37ZG50vsgA5?fbclid=IwAR3pN556zDSIwY2fL9aFDUApEvA8E_rQjADJAVLsCrAxQUCwijok1RXqUPA[/url]

Long way to go IMO.

So is no one worried that the electric car at the moment is polluting our atmosphere worse than the so-called planet wrecker diesel

 

[Greg Bobkin]

We have a three year old Zoe and it's a great car. We get about 180 miles from a single charge on the driveway about every 7-10 days. The battery is hired from Renault for £70 per month so obviously this is the main cost, but it means that when the efficiency falls below a certain threshold it is replaced for free. It's perfect for local journeys but we also have a large diesel car for long family trips. Not ideal but at least the majority of our journeys are emission free.

The drive itself is wonderfully smooth and quiet. Electric cars are the future so I'm baffled as to why the government are not doing more to encourage their use.

Probably because they haven't figured out how to get as much revenue from them as they do from ICE-vehicles...

 

[Papa Lazarou]

So is no one worried that the electric car at the moment is polluting our atmosphere worse than the so-called planet wrecker diesel

Not worried, because that's clearly bollox.

 

[Dick Swiveller]

Even with the government grant (which has been reduced in the last few years).

Not a problem for the OP as I am sure they will waive him being a bit late and give him the old grant anyway.

 

[GOM]

I looked at getting an EV this year but they’re just too expensive. Even with the government grant (which has been reduced in the last few years) a brand new EV was still costing upwards of 23k. Second hand models are obviously cheaper but the battery deterioration on models pre 2015 is frankly appalling meaning that some of the cars we looked at had a range of 80 miles and under. I like the idea, I like the eco friendly side but not enough resources are being put into pure EVs to make them cost effective at the moment.

Also worth mentioning that a lot Think Tanks’ findings should be take with a pinch of salt. Who knows who funded the research...

Not currently, need the market to mature more.

Currently there is little detail on the residual value of the car. Given that the battery is a huge cost and has a life of 7/8 years? Does the value of an electric car plummet the closer you get to the end of the battery life. Or will pricing models from manufacturers develop where you buy the car but lease the battery or similar,

So is no one worried that the electric car at the moment is polluting our atmosphere worse than the so-called planet wrecker diesel

Nope