[Politics] Electoral fraud

[Swansman]

The level of electoral fraud, so far as postal votes are concerned, is ridiculous and I can't understand why the Electoral Commission haven't deployed more sophisticated methods to erradicate it. The process by which we elect our MPs seems to be very antiquated in so many ways.

I mean the whole purpose with democracy is that you are supposed to believe you have a say, not that you actually got it.

Nah seriously though no one would ever cheat in a Western election. The powers that be has told me this. "Others are bad, but we are good", they said.

 

[ManOfSussex]

When I lived abroad I took the decision not to vote in any UK elections, but that was a personal choice though. Therefore I didn't vote in either the 2010 General Election or the 2011 AV Referendum.

 

[Bakero]

Nobody said anything about citizenship . . . . If I go to Aus I can't immediately get involved and wouldn't expect to. clearly there is a grace period . . . 2-5 year seems to be normal . . . . .If you've lived lock stock in Spain or wherever for 5 years or more, I don't think you deserve the right to vote in a UK election, its none of your buisiness any more. . . . . clearly most people who do live abroad ( and I know a few ) keep a place here, and/or visit home ground just enough to be able to take advantage of all the unique UK offerings . . . . . I know someone who's lived and runs a business in the US for 20 years . . . .came back for an op on his hand on the NHS. despite being 60 he's still registered at his mums house. cheeky IMO. There must be thousands like him in Spain.

I've lived abroad for the last 10 years or so. I didn't return once during the first 3 years but for the last 6 I've been back every summer and worked in Brighton. I guess that my periods of work legitimise my right to vote in some eyes but even without that I'd be deeply uncomfortable if I was disenfranchised. Living overseas hasn't weakened my connection to the UK and I still feel I have a tangible stake in its present and future.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Nobody said anything about citizenship . . . . If I go to Aus I can't immediately get involved and wouldn't expect to. clearly there is a grace period . . . 2-5 year seems to be normal . . . . .If you've lived lock stock in Spain or wherever for 5 years or more, I don't think you deserve the right to vote in a UK election, its none of your buisiness any more. . . . . clearly most people who do live abroad ( and I know a few ) keep a place here, and/or visit home ground just enough to be able to take advantage of all the unique UK offerings . . . . . I know someone who's lived and runs a business in the US for 20 years . . . .came back for an op on his hand on the NHS. despite being 60 he's still registered at his mums house. cheeky IMO. There must be thousands like him in Spain.

You have completely swerved my point.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Nobody said anything about citizenship . . . . If I go to Aus I can't immediately get involved and wouldn't expect to. clearly there is a grace period . . . 2-5 year seems to be normal . . . . .If you've lived lock stock in Spain or wherever for 5 years or more, I don't think you deserve the right to vote in a UK election, its none of your buisiness any more. . . . . clearly most people who do live abroad ( and I know a few ) keep a place here, and/or visit home ground just enough to be able to take advantage of all the unique UK offerings . . . . . I know someone who's lived and runs a business in the US for 20 years . . . .came back for an op on his hand on the NHS. despite being 60 he's still registered at his mums house. cheeky IMO. There must be thousands like him in Spain.

And how do you know it’s “none of your business anymore”? You have no idea what most non-residents U.K. interests, personal, business or otherwise are.

 

[Brovion]

Overseas voters are allowed to vote using the last address they where registered at. I use an address I have not lives at for 7 years. I wonder if it’s related to this?

Blimey really? I'm not sure I'm 100% happy about that. I take your point about as a British national you should have a say in what government represents you (and I assume you still pay UK income or Corporation tax), but the UK political system is constituency-based, it's not a presidential election. Often local constituency matters are important, and people vote for candidates because of the work they've done locally even if they don't agree with their party politics (Caroline Lucas being a good case in point).

If you haven't lived in a constituency for five, ten, twenty years (is there a cut-off?), do you really think you should have a say in who represents those people? Maybe there should be a special 'constituency' for overseas voters? You all vote for a 'Foreign' MP to represent your interests.

 

[Petunia]

Blimey really? I'm not sure I'm 100% happy about that. I take your point about as a British national you should have a say in what government represents you (and I assume you still pay UK income or Corporation tax), but the UK political system is constituency-based, it's not a presidential election. Often local constituency matters are important, and people vote for candidates because of the work they've done locally even if they don't agree with their party politics (Caroline Lucas being a good case in point).

If you haven't lived in a constituency for five, ten, twenty years (is there a cut-off?), do you really think you should have a say in who represents those people? Maybe there should be a special 'constituency' for overseas voters? You all vote for a 'Foreign' MP to represent your interests.

You aren’t registered at an address, you are registered as an overseas voter at the authority where you were last registered to vote.

You are eligible to vote for 15 years.

 

[Brovion]

You aren’t registered at an address, you are registered as an overseas voter at the authority where you were last registered to vote.

You are eligible to vote for 15 years.

Thanks for the info. Tubby says he's registered at an address, is that irrelevant then? It's just the Authority where he lived? (But still he votes in a constituency?)

Pleased about the cut-off. All those perma-tanned expats in Spain can't vote for ever then.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

The level of electoral fraud, so far as postal votes are concerned, is ridiculous and I can't understand why the Electoral Commission haven't deployed more sophisticated methods to erradicate it. The process by which we elect our MPs seems to be very antiquated in so many ways.

Electoral fraud via postal votes in Tower Hamlets at the past few elections has been absolutely rampant. People have been prosecuted yet nothing substantial appears to be done to prevent it from being possible in the first place.

In this day and age you'd think we could have some sort of digital passport for the right to work, NHS number, voting, NI Number, ID .... I know many will bang on about a Police State but there's so much fraud going on something needs to give.

 

[Petunia]

Thanks for the info. Tubby says he's registered at an address, is that irrelevant then? It's just the Authority where he lived? (But still he votes in a constituency?)

Pleased about the cut-off. All those perma-tanned expats in Spain can't vote for ever then.

https://www.gov.uk/voting-when-abroad

When completing the application to be an overseas voter you have to put the address you were last registered at but you aren’t actually registered at that address. But yes, you still vote in the constituency where you last lived before leaving the UK.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You aren’t registered at an address, you are registered as an overseas voter at the authority where you were last registered to vote.

You are eligible to vote for 15 years.

Fair point.

 

[McTavish]

So how do housebound disabled people vote under your system of no postal votes

Proxy vote.

 

[BensGrandad]

So how do housebound disabled people vote under your system of no postal votes

My post was tongue in cheek but in this instance, to continue, the council could send somebody around to collect the vote in a presealed packet. Which could be supplied on request on production of the polling card details

 

[zefarelly]

And how do you know it’s “none of your business anymore”? You have no idea what most non-residents U.K. interests, personal, business or otherwise are.

I wasn't deliberately swerving, and I agree, you don't give up your right to citizenship, its a birth right . . . . I've worked overseas reasonably extensively in the past, but only as a temporary thing ( 6 months max in 1 month bites) Most people I know of move over seas to work for more money and/or tax free or to retire. . . some completely emigrate and leave nothing behind ( although seen a few crawl back!). . . . 5 years seems like a sensible time to say, of course you keep your citizenship, but you waiver the right to vote due to not being a contributor or having any vested interest in the country. equally if a ROmanian/Italian/Polish mechanic/nurse whatever has been here for the same amount of time as a pukka resident, why shouldn't they be allowed a say . .. in the next government. 5 years is a std duration of a governement. . . .

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I wasn't deliberately swerving, and I agree, you don't give up your right to citizenship, its a birth right . . . . I've worked overseas reasonably extensively in the past, but only as a temporary thing ( 6 months max in 1 month bites) Most people I know of move over seas to work for more money and/or tax free or to retire. . . some completely emigrate and leave nothing behind ( although seen a few crawl back!). . . . 5 years seems like a sensible time to say, of course you keep your citizenship, but you waiver the right to vote due to not being a contributor or having any vested interest in the country. equally if a ROmanian/Italian/Polish mechanic/nurse whatever has been here for the same amount of time as a pukka resident, why shouldn't they be allowed a say . .. in the next government. 5 years is a std duration of a governement. . . .

Interesting point you make about contributing. Would you prohibit anyone in the UK who doesn’t “contribute”? What and how would you measure this? Taxes isn’t a good barometer as I believe a significant chunk people are life-time takers when you consider things like their education, health and all other services the government provide. And how would you measure contributions like the insightful education and instruction I offer my U.K. based compatriots through my considered posts?

 

[zefarelly]

Interesting point you make about contributing. Would you prohibit anyone in the UK who doesn’t “contribute”? What and how would you measure this? Taxes isn’t a good barometer as I believe a significant chunk people are life-time takers when you consider things like their education, health and all other services the government provide. And how would you measure contributions like the insightful education and instruction I offer my U.K. based compatriots through my considered posts?

Aww it's getting complicated now! it's impossible to please all, and some people probably shouldn't vote, but that's not fair either.

As far as contribution is concerned, anything is good, being part of the community is,good. Pissing off for,your own good, arguably at the expense of your compatriots is not. An example . . . . My cousin and his wife, middle class teachers in London, doing ok. . . Go to Bahrain for a few years, big money, no tax, rent out property here, all gain no pain, and no contribution here. They'll be back. I don't blame them, I understand they're doing it 'for the family' but it's not quite right to my mind.

 

[Worthing exile]

The staff won’t have changed as they are there for the duration. I doubt they would notice you had been in earlier, especially on a busy day, but what about your neighbour when he turned up to vote and was told he had already voted?

I have worked at Poling Stations a number of times and while staff are there for the day they can leave the desk (but not the station) for breaks and regularly rotate jobs to alleviate boredom so you could go a second time and give your name to someone else. Of course a pretty young woman would always be remembered by a male clerk lol.

 

[Hastings gull]

You are blatantly wrong that progress has been made. Just look at the data! We are getting worse! All you are saying is "ah we did some things which had a small impact to marginally slow the rate at which we are getting worse". I call that NOTHING. Given the facts does not carry people with you otherwise we would not have climate change would we! How can you possibly say that?

As to the impact of what has been done, that would be extremely hard to measure, if impossible, as we don't know what would have happened otherwise. I am with you in that more can be and should have been done, but to say that NOTHING has been done is just wrong. I am sorry but I have looked at your last sentence and cannot fathom it out.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Aww it's getting complicated now! it's impossible to please all, and some people probably shouldn't vote, but that's not fair either.

As far as contribution is concerned, anything is good, being part of the community is,good. Pissing off for,your own good, arguably at the expense of your compatriots is not. An example . . . . My cousin and his wife, middle class teachers in London, doing ok. . . Go to Bahrain for a few years, big money, no tax, rent out property here, all gain no pain, and no contribution here. They'll be back. I don't blame them, I understand they're doing it 'for the family' but it's not quite right to my mind.

They would argue, I suppose, that they take nothing in services whilst they are living overseas. Like you, I'd disagree - I think there is a middle ground, and they should still contribute something - the state is still policing and maintaining the street on which their UK house stands, still (barely) maintaining the skills and capabilities of the NHS so it is there for them when they might need it, still maintaining armed forces and the foreign office, etc, etc, etc.

It wouldn't be unique - the USA of course, obliges all US citizens to pay US taxes on their income regardless of where in the world they earn it. It is of course the primary reason that Boris Johnson renounced his US citizenship.

 

[Hastings gull]

No. Nothing has been done. Greenhouse gasses are UP again this year. Countries are failing to meet targets. You think that is doing something!?

You don't even properly read what is put to you, such is your fanaticism. I know that countries are failing to meet their targets etc. The point I was making is that without what has been done ( and yes, it is clearly not enough) the situation would be even worse. I have often put on here that I favour a car-free Sunday per month for starters, with the exception of public transport and emergency vehicles. I do share your frustration but unlike yourself, accept that we have to go carefully, as the plain brutal fact is that your average punter at present is not willing to give up that much to make life easier for those alive in, say, a 100 years time.