Egypt...oh no.

[Tyrone Biggums]

I think the natural response to someone taking your land would be to fight. When your aggressors are as powerful as Israel then it is a hard fight and not one you will win toe to toe.

So the Irish were always justified in their actions?

 

[BadFish]

And yet still active UN resolutions demand that all the parties involve retreat to the 1967 borders. The destruction and theft of Arab owned olive groves to build the dividing walls seems to have been forgotten as well.

http://monabaker.com/quotes.htm

This is what the Israeli government has thought of Palestinians throughout the years. This coupled with the UN resolutions that Israel continues to ignore and the wall, chekpoints, cutting off of water supplies to Palestinian makes it very hard for me to see the Palestinians as the aggressors in this conflict.

I await some evidence to contradict this though.

 

[BadFish]

The same persecution that the Palestinians suffer in Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon who all have regions within their borders that the Palestinians claim is theirs by right and ancestry.

Do the UN agree?

 

[BadFish]

So the Irish were always justified in their actions?

If someone takes your land then a natural response will be to fight. When your aggressors are as powerful as the British then it is a hard fight and not one you will win toes to toe.

Do you think the Irish and the Palestinians should take a more Tibetan stance on having their land taken?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

So the Irish were always justified in their actions?

Always justified in their actions ? No
Had a justifiable cause ? Yes

 

[somerset]

And yet still active UN resolutions demand that all the parties involve retreat to the 1967 borders. The destruction and theft of Arab owned olive groves to build the dividing walls seems to have been forgotten as well.

The West Bank is still a moot point yes,... Jordan signed it over, Israel now says it stays within its sphere of influence and control, BUT, it is by treaty still Israel, ceded to them by Jordan. That's not to say there isn't room for negotiation, Israel has moved some distance by making it in theory a Palestinian territory, like Gaza, but of course they wont stand still and allow waves of rockets and suicide bombers to continue to slaughter men women and children at will,... so then came their idea of a solution, the wall, and the security checkpoints,....

 

[somerset]

Do the UN agree?

I don't expect they have a view on the other nations, I suspect mainly because the UN didn't create those other nations, they did of course create Israel after WWII, so will feel more involved in that particular aspect of the Palestinian cause.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The West Bank is still a moot point yes,... Jordan signed it over, Israel now says it stays within its sphere of influence and control, BUT, it is by treaty still Israel, ceded to them by Jordan. That's not to say there isn't room for negotiation, Israel has moved some distance by making it in theory a Palestinian territory, like Gaza, but of course they wont stand still and allow waves of rockets and suicide bombers to continue to slaughter men women and children at will,... so then came their idea of a solution, the wall, and the security checkpoints,....

I think you're somewhat forgetting that Britain and co took Palestinian lands to carve out the state of Israel. A state that hadn't existed for centries. If Italy suddenly came knocking on my door and reclaiming the land the Romans had here I'd be a little more than annoyed - I'd fight back.

 

[BadFish]

I don't expect they have a view on the other nations, I suspect mainly because the UN didn't create those other nations, they did of course create Israel after WWII, so will feel more involved in that particular aspect of the Palestinian cause.

especially for the fact that the Zionists have largely ignored the agreement that they put in place in 1947.

 

[bernster]

Why do you ignore the catastrophic policy decisions made by the nations of the middle east themselves? Two nations only in that immediate region are stable and economically prosperous, 1) Israel, a democracy, and economically attached to most of the enlightened world in one way or another, 2) Jordan, another democracy, constitutional monarchy like us, economically booming, secular ( they ban any religiously aligned political parties ), good relations with most nations in the region and beyond.

a good point,i dont ignore them at all but just point out that outside interference has,on the whole,been to the detriment of the region.in no way do i seek to lessen the responsibility of the nations in the region for many of the terrible events.

 

[somerset]

especially for the fact that the Zionists have largely ignored the agreement that they put in place in 1947.

No they havnt,... what they have ignored are some of the agreements that emerged in the wake of the FOUR Arab-Israeli wars that have taken place since that time.

 

[BadFish]

No they havnt,... what they have ignored are some of the agreements that emerged in the wake of the FOUR Arab-Israeli wars that have taken place since that time.

go on...

 

[Buzzer]

So the Irish were always justified in their actions?

Nothing justifies blowing up 4 year old boys in shopping centres.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Nothing justifies blowing up 4 year old boys in shopping centres.

I think it does.

If you were a French Partisan fighter and you had Germans all through out your city are you saying you should not bomb the shit out of the Germans incase you blew up one of their 4 year old kids?

 

[somerset]

I think you're somewhat forgetting that Britain and co took Palestinian lands to carve out the state of Israel. A state that hadn't existed for centries. If Italy suddenly came knocking on my door and reclaiming the land the Romans had here I'd be a little more than annoyed - I'd fight back.

Actually to continue this discussion with some historical accuracy I must contradict you. The UN decided the borders, this was a three state solution of Arab land, Jewish land and an international control of Jerusalem all agreed and voted on in the UN. Britain actually aggressively intercepted and returned Jewish immigrants from post war Europe, stopped them in their thousands in the hope of keeping the peace with the Arabs, Britain had absolutely no interest in maintaining an interest in the region ( post war exhaustion), and certainly had no interest in supporting the jewish/Zionist movement who had caused them so much trouble in the preceding years. Britain left for good in 1948 and within 'minutes' the Jews declared themselves the state of Israel and the rest they say, is history.

 

[daveinprague]

When youre an insurgency of any sort, you cant fight a 'normal' war against people who have well equipped armies, tanks, helicopters, jet fighters and bombers..you will use what you have to hand...
The jews settled there after the war...the British did try to stop them doing it for a while...
As for the way they fight their wars in the area, well, the Jewish stern gang murdered British soldiers, and a British consul (Lord Caenarvon?) or something..they also routinely bombed, and attacked Palestinian villages etc. Palestinians learned from the Jewish settlers how to fight guerilla war.
I did see somebody say that the Israelis have the finest combat troops in the world... yet, Hezbollah fought them to a standstill toe to toe in Lebanon last time didnt they?

 

[Buzzer]

I think it does.

If you were a French Partisan fighter and you had Germans all through out your city are you saying you should not bomb the shit out of the Germans incase you blew up one of their 4 year old kids?

Since when was Warrington on Irish soil? And since when did shopping centres house military barracks?

Your analogy is completely wrong, it's also downright offensive.

 

[knocky1]

Nope, wrong again, but you keep the red flag flying mate,...... see ya. ..... PS: did you know we were at war with Germany not that long ago too? .... and we kicked France and Spain around at various times .... history is interesting isn't it?

You have misquoted my post as I had a quantifier that you have deleted. I am rarely wrong when arguing with numbskulls. As to flying a flag I have no flag at all. Only knowledge. The war with Germany was against a Fascist workers party opposed to Communism. Hence the name National SOCIALIST party. America had no qualms with Hitler until the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour forced them to take sides and stop selling to everyone. Fascism can be to the extreme Left or Right.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Since when was Warrington on Irish soil? And since when did shopping centres house military barracks?

Your analogy is completely wrong, it's also downright offensive.

Hang on. So one set of troops can kill a person on foreign soil, but when someone else does it to their people it's a completely different scenario?

That's the crux of your point.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I think it does.

If you were a French Partisan fighter and you had Germans all through out your city are you saying you should not bomb the shit out of the Germans incase you blew up one of their 4 year old kids?

there is a huge difference between attacking foreign occupying forces in your own territory and indiscriminately bombing the civilian population in another country