EDL in Sheffield

[Soulman]

Then they vote for left wing socialist governments which would explain why their have been so many leftwing and socialist governments in the UK over the years......Oh hang on no what has actually happened is the opposite, even the Labour party had to drop most their left wing agenda to get voted in because sadly the public prefer the politics of the right (maybe not as far right as you fellas on this thread would prefer but right non the less)

So either your theory in nonsense and school teach students without political bias or those teachers you mention are the worst brainwashers ever. There is of course the other theory that most of the opinions on this thread are ignorant, reactionary bollocks and born from some right wing conspiracy theory of fear by people who just needs some minority to hate and it is no longer acceptable to hate the blacks or the pakis so they move on to the next target. Of course as is often pointed out, I don't live in the UK anymore so I am not allowed to have an opinion on this.

Out of interest though, why do you think that the majority of teachers have left wing/liberal views?

My guess (and own motivation) is that teachers become teachers out of a desire to help people and give something back to the communities in which they live. This kind of attitude is more prevalent in the philosophies of the left than the right who are motivated more by greed and self.

Fair enough, these are your opinions from afar. If you really think that the last labour government of roughly 13 years was right wing, then i beg to differ.
Helping people is not just a philosophy of the left, and greed, well let's just look at many of these left wing champagne socialists eh.
Nothing wrong with blacks or asian people, just the mindset of the extreme islam that is the problem here and worldwide.
You of course are welcome to your opinion, which like mine is all that it is.

 

[BadFish]

Fair enough, these are your opinions from afar. If you really think that the last labour government of roughly 13 years was right wing, then i beg to differ.
Helping people is not just a philosophy of the left, and greed, well let's just look at many of these left wing champagne socialists eh.
Nothing wrong with blacks or asian people, just the mindset of the extreme islam that is the problem here and worldwide.
You of course are welcome to your opinion, which like mine is all that it is.

Whilst I agree that their is a problem with extremest Islam this thread is littered with references and statistics to Muslims (without the 'extremest'). Someone even included a video explaining how all Muslims hold extremest views and are just laying dormant. This is the grey area that causes the issue with groups like the EDL and others that express concern about the issue.

The problem with lumping all Muslims into the same group (with the get out clause of "oh we are only talking about radical Islam") is that those moderate muslims become marginalised and feel persecuted by their fellow country men. The effect of this marginalisation is the they seek comfort and support in the arms of the radical and all of a sudden the stuff they are banging on about starts to make sense. The net effect of this is more radicals and more horror stories to feed the hate.

Maybe you chaps can go back and change your statistics to the % of radical mulsims in the population.

 

[Soulman]

Whilst I agree that their is a problem with extremest Islam this thread is littered with references and statistics to Muslims (without the 'extremest'). Someone even included a video explaining how all Muslims hold extremest views and are just laying dormant. This is the grey area that causes the issue with groups like the EDL and others that express concern about the issue.

The problem with lumping all Muslims into the same group (with the get out clause of "oh we are only talking about radical Islam") is that those moderate muslims become marginalised and feel persecuted by their fellow country men. The effect of this marginalisation is the they seek comfort and support in the arms of the radical and all of a sudden the stuff they are banging on about starts to make sense. The net effect of this is more radicals and more horror stories to feed the hate.

Maybe you chaps can go back and change your statistics to the % of radical mulsims in the population.

Maybe BF but the other religions and cultures in this country are causing no problems. These other faiths are not demanding changes like special treatment in jails, in schools that are non muslim, wanting all muslim crimes dealt with by sharia courts instead of the law of the land.
How does your percentage work when we see the countries mentioned with over 90% muslim at complete war, killing and murdering their own. They can't even behave when they are the almost full percentage.

 

[BadFish]

Maybe BF but the other religions and cultures in this country are causing no problems. These other faiths are not demanding changes like special treatment in jails, in schools that are non muslim, wanting all muslim crimes dealt with by sharia courts instead of the law of the land.
How does your percentage work when we see the countries mentioned with over 90% muslim at complete war, killing and murdering their own. They can't even behave when they are the almost full percentage.

Again this is a little ambiguous, do you mean 'they' as in Muslims or 'they' as in extremist Muslims?

 

[Soulman]

Again this is a little ambiguous, do you mean 'they' as in Muslims or 'they' as in extremist Muslims?

I shall make sure that i write "extremist" in future then, because the act of killing/ murdering your own, stoning, demanding countries change their values to suit yours, making women very subservient etc.....is fairly "extreme" imo.

 

[Footsoldier]

Fair enough, these are your opinions from afar. If you really think that the last labour government of roughly 13 years was right wing, then i beg to differ.

Helping people is not just a philosophy of the left, and greed, well let's just look at many of these left wing champagne socialists eh.
Nothing wrong with blacks or asian people, just the mindset of the extreme islam that is the problem here and worldwide.
You of course are welcome to your opinion, which like mine is all that it is.

Students are taught/ indoctrinated by lefties ? Teaching should be neutral , and I thought that the whole point of a university/school education was to encourage students to question things and think for themselves and not to be brained washed by the liberal elite.

Under 13 years of Labour then left wing students were taught about multi culture and Islam and the EU and school children had it drummed into to them as Labour had an ideology and wanted to impose it on the youngest so they'll grow up with the mentality of a left wing fruitcake and it has worked to a certain extent but it hasn't worked out how they would of liked as they wanted power for at least 30 years to really brainwash kids and students into their ideology but it's failed

The Tories are trying to reverse it and make the kids learn English, our History and everything English which Labour and the Lib Dems are pulling their hair out over as they think it's rasict.

Typical lefties.

One party for me.

UKIP.

 

[Footsoldier]

I'm offended as well so shall leave and have a bottle of wine, is that ok?

[yt]cxlO7DLC6p8[/yt]

 

[brighton fella]

Whilst I agree that their is a problem with extremest Islam this thread is littered with references and statistics to Muslims (without the 'extremest'). Someone even included a video explaining how all Muslims hold extremest views and are just laying dormant. This is the grey area that causes the issue with groups like the EDL and others that express concern about the issue.

The problem with lumping all Muslims into the same group (with the get out clause of "oh we are only talking about radical Islam") is that those moderate muslims become marginalised and feel persecuted by their fellow country men. The effect of this marginalisation is the they seek comfort and support in the arms of the radical and all of a sudden the stuff they are banging on about starts to make sense. The net effect of this is more radicals and more horror stories to feed the hate.

Maybe you chaps can go back and change your statistics to the % of radical mulsims in the population.

so are we supposed to sit down and let them use "us" "the british citizen" who's ****ing country this is in the first place as nothing other than wet doormats simply because some of our unsensitive coments are seen as offensive and could have the potential to turn moderate muslims in to radicals?? f**king tough shit if it does!! they can **** off then!! we wouldn't go & set up shop in saudia Arabia demanding crap like this so why should they over here?
if he's threatening my liberty and shaming my country "inside my own country" I have every bleedin right to insult him.. end of.

"

 

[brighton fella]

I'm offended as well so shall leave and have a bottle of wine, is that ok?

[yt]cxlO7DLC6p8[/yt]

no offense priceless

 

[BadFish]

so are we supposed to sit down and let them use "us" "the british citizen" who's ****ing country this is in the first place as nothing other than wet doormats simply because some of our unsensitive coments are seen as offensive and could have the potential to turn moderate muslims in to radicals?? f**king tough shit if it does!! they can **** off then!! we wouldn't go & set up shop in saudia Arabia demanding crap like this so why should they over here?
if he's threatening my liberty and shaming my country "inside my own country" I have every bleedin right to insult him.. end of.

"

The point is that most Muslims are not doing any of the stuff you are suggesting, they are just trying to live their lives. Yet it seems that they are just as likely to bare the brunt of the anger of groups such as the EDL as the extremists who are causing the problems ( I may be wrong about this but it is certainly how it appears to me and the examples on this thread are many).

This is were the problem lies, it has nothing to do with being a bleeding heart or wet doormat. It is about directing hate and blame to those people who are doing nothing wrong but share the same religion as others. The net result of this is that we will end up with more radicals and groups like the EDL will continue to be called racists. Tough shit is maybe but whose tough shit it is debatable. I would say that it is a bit daft to continue with a solution that actually causes your problem to get worse.

 

[brighton fella]

The point is that most Muslims are not doing any of the stuff you are suggesting, they are just trying to live their lives. Yet it seems that they are just as likely to bare the brunt of the anger of groups such as the EDL as the extremists who are causing the problems ( I may be wrong about this but it is certainly how it appears to me and the examples on this thread are many).

This is were the problem lies, it has nothing to do with being a bleeding heart or wet doormat. It is about directing hate and blame to those people who are doing nothing wrong but share the same religion as others. The net result of this is that we will end up with more radicals and groups like the EDL will continue to be called racists. Tough shit is maybe but whose tough shit it is debatable. I would say that it is a bit daft to continue with a solution that actually causes your problem to get worse.

and should this not apply also to those muslims chanelling their hatred towards us & labelling us as white infidels? i find that offensive don't you? im sure they would if the shoe were on the other foot.
any normal moderate muslim with an ounce of savvy should be big enough to understand the blame isn't being directed at them in particular therefore they should be trying their upmost to combat it instead of turning a convenient blind eye to it. they know dam well extremist muslims are operating inside their mosques and communitys so why not do something constructive about it for a change and take the fight to the extremists instead of us & then they might just get the respect they are looking for.
you have to ask yourself who is the real aggresser is.. & it seems to me the muslim extremists are the ones fueling it, they are the ones calling all of the shots and the edl are just responding back. it cant be helped if other innocent muslims feel that they are being caught in the crossfire because as said before they should be big enough and ugly enough to accept it.. for **** sake we accept all sorts of shit from them. it works both ways.

 

[BadFish]

and should this not apply also to those muslims chanelling their hatred towards us & labelling us as white infidels? i find that offensive don't you? im sure they would if the shoe were on the other foot.
any normal moderate muslim with an ounce of savvy should be big enough to understand the blame isn't being directed at them in particular therefore they should be trying their upmost to combat it instead of turning a convenient blind eye to it. they know dam well extremist muslims are operating inside their mosques and communitys so why not do something constructive about it for a change and take the fight to the extremists instead of us & then they might just get the respect they are looking for.
you have to ask yourself who is the real aggresser is.. & it seems to me the muslim extremists are the ones fueling it, they are the ones calling all of the shots and the edl are just responding back. it cant be helped if other innocent muslims feel that they are being caught in the crossfire because as said before they should be big enough and ugly enough to accept it.. for **** sake we accept all sorts of shit from them. it works both ways.

You think that other Muslims should be held accountable for the.beliefs and actions of others who share their faith? Does this work both ways? Are you responsible for others who share your beliefs? Am I responsible for the actions of other atheists?

The problem with lumping everyone together is that eventually this is exactly what you end up with.

The Muslims I have met feel the same about radical Islam data as everyone else. Possibly they dislike it more because it causes them to be criticised and harassed for merely sharing the same beliefs.

The idea that I should tell them that they should be doing something to stop the radicals is an interesting one. Maybe I should suggest they join the ADL

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

You think that other Muslims should be held accountable for the.beliefs and actions of others who share their faith? Does this work both ways? Are you responsible for others who share your beliefs? Am I responsible for the actions of other atheists?

The problem with lumping everyone together is that eventually this is exactly what you end up with.

The Muslims I have met feel the same about radical Islam data as everyone else. Possibly they dislike it more because it causes them to be criticised and harassed for merely sharing the same beliefs.

The idea that I should tell them that they should be doing something to stop the radicals is an interesting one. Maybe I should suggest they join the ADL

exactly what brighton fella said the latest "CHARACTER " WALKED INTO A MOSQUE IN HIS OWN CLOTHES AND LEFT IN A BURKA calls himself mr Ben now
regards
DR

 

[brighton fella]

You think that other Muslims should be held accountable for the.beliefs and actions of others who share their faith? Does this work both ways? Are you responsible for others who share your beliefs? Am I responsible for the actions of other atheists?

The problem with lumping everyone together is that eventually this is exactly what you end up with.

The Muslims I have met feel the same about radical Islam data as everyone else. Possibly they dislike it more because it causes them to be criticised and harassed for merely sharing the same beliefs.

The idea that I should tell them that they should be doing something to stop the radicals is an interesting one. Maybe I should suggest they join the ADL

im not sure you mean ADL but netherless I know what you mean.
what exactly are the musim councils doing about radicalisation in their faith schools & mosques etc, exactly what are they doing when they have the power to rid the problem forever yet they choose not to, ask yourself why? & again if the muslim councils don't wish to do **** all about the problem because quite simply they haven't got the bollocks to do so then why not let the rest of their fellow muslims step in and have a go why because none of them have the bollocks either... or am I closer to the point by saying they all agree with radicals but just aint prepared to admit it. and you expect us to dilly dally around a bunch like this because none of them have the bollocks to oppose extremist muslims themselves? you've got to be on another planet if you do.

 

[BadFish]

im not sure you mean ADL but netherless I know what you mean.
what exactly are the musim councils doing about radicalisation in their faith schools & mosques etc, exactly what are they doing when they have the power to rid the problem forever yet they choose not to, ask yourself why? & again if the muslim councils don't wish to do **** all about the problem because quite simply they haven't got the bollocks to do so then why not let the rest of their fellow muslims step in and have a go why because none of them have the bollocks either... or am I closer to the point by saying they all agree with radicals but just aint prepared to admit it. and you expect us to dilly dally around a bunch like this because none of them have the bollocks to oppose extremist muslims themselves? you've got to be on another planet if you do.

It would be fantastic to see moderate muslims stand up and say they disagree with the radicals, I agree entirely with this and the ones I have spoken to do disagree. But I get the impression it is difficult for them to do this. The question is as you say why? You seem to have made an assumption about this (i would be interested to hear it). I don't know because i haven't asked the question but many it is because they don't feel it is their responsibility to solve the problem of radical islam (see the questions in my last post). Or maybe it is because they fear for what will happen id they do, maybe the look at the situation and wonder where they will get support from, they see the radicals on one side and the EDL and other such groups (The ADL are the Australian Defense League) on the other side. So to take on the radicals they have to side with a group who have blamed them for the action of the radicals who share their faith.

 

[BadFish]

It would be fantastic to see moderate muslims stand up and say they disagree with the radicals, I agree entirely with this and the ones I have spoken to do disagree. But I get the impression it is difficult for them to do this. The question is as you say why? You seem to have made an assumption about this (i would be interested to hear it). I don't know because i haven't asked the question but many it is because they don't feel it is their responsibility to solve the problem of radical islam (see the questions in my last post). Or maybe it is because they fear for what will happen id they do, maybe the look at the situation and wonder where they will get support from, they see the radicals on one side and the EDL and other such groups (The ADL are the Australian Defense League) on the other side. So to take on the radicals they have to side with a group who have blamed them for the action of the radicals who share their faith.

I have found an article written by Muslim which attempts to answer the question: It is American but I think the points still stand.

http://www.globalpolitician.com/print.asp?id=3422

I have quoted a couple of paragraphs which I think explain it quite well.

Americans tend to think that fighting terrorism is a black or white issue and keep saying, “either you are with us or against us”, as if moderate Muslims don’t want to help. They express resentment that moderate Muslims do not speak out or stand up to help the American government. Truth be told, any moderate Muslim who speaks up publicly against the terrorists is placing her or his life in danger. The overwhelming majority of American Muslims are like the good white people of the early 20th century who knew prejudice against blacks was wrong but couldn’t stand up to the social policies of the powerful and ignorant.

It doesn’t help that Americans indiscriminately bash Muslims and use ethnic profiling to search for terrorists.. This outdated method is alienating many Muslims who could help fight terrorism. Typical is my own experience when I, a Canadian citizen, crossed the US/Canadian border for the first time some six years ago. The border officer called me a “Muslim Terrorist.” I have done nothing but try to help the American people understand terrorism and fight alongside them to defeat it. If I were like many other Muslims, I would have simply closed my eyes and mind to the victims of 9/11 and decided that I will judge 300 million people in the United States of America based on the comments of one ignorant man, who, instead of looking at my actions, looked at the color of my skin, hair and eyes and my religion and decided, in his words, “ you could be a terrorist for all I know.”

Case in point: A mullah friend of mine who spoke against terrorism at a mosque in Vancouver, Canada received death threats from hardliners in Canada. If he had not stopped speaking up, he would have been killed.

I receive hate e-mail from radical Muslims threatening physical harm and telling me I am serving Satan and going to Hell. The government of Iran has been hacking and repeatedly shutting down my website for the past year. I have reported these threats to authorities, senators and members of parliament in Canada and the United States. No protection from any authority has been granted. When I attended BookExpo America in New York City last year, I had to have a bodyguard. These are just a few examples of my daily struggles to stay alive.

 

[Soulman]

It would be fantastic to see moderate muslims stand up and say they disagree with the radicals, I agree entirely with this and the ones I have spoken to do disagree. But I get the impression it is difficult for them to do this. The question is as you say why? You seem to have made an assumption about this (i would be interested to hear it). I don't know because i haven't asked the question but many it is because they don't feel it is their responsibility to solve the problem of radical islam (see the questions in my last post). Or maybe it is because they fear for what will happen id they do, maybe the look at the situation and wonder where they will get support from, they see the radicals on one side and the EDL and other such groups (The ADL are the Australian Defense League) on the other side. So to take on the radicals they have to side with a group who have blamed them for the action of the radicals who share their faith.

BF, i have to say this view is at best body swerving, or a very very poor excuse.
We are told time and time and time again that these extreme muslims are a minority, indeed a tiny minority apparently, so how come the so called vast majority are scared eh. Maybe scared in a country that is 90% muslim and killing willy nilly, but not in England surely.
But then it just goes to prove that even with tv footage of what is going on in some mosques, and the teaching in muslim schools, these decent muslims do not seem to have seen it......the Arsene Wenger's of the religious world me thinks.
By the way, do the ADL get kettled and caged etc when they march in OZ?

 

[BadFish]

BF, i have to say this view is at best body swerving, or a very very poor excuse.
We are told time and time and time again that these extreme muslims are a minority, indeed a tiny minority apparently, so how come the so called vast majority are scared eh. Maybe scared in a country that is 90% muslim and killing willy nilly, but not in England surely.
But then it just goes to prove that even with tv footage of what is going on in some mosques, and the teaching in muslim schools, these decent muslims do not seem to have seen it......the Arsene Wenger's of the religious world me thinks.
By the way, do the ADL get kettled and caged etc when they march in OZ?

Have a look at my post again, I edited it to include blog post written by a moderate Muslim who explains the answer to the question.

Not sure How the ADL get treated when they march or even if the do march, I just noticed they have a facebook page.

 

[Soulman]

Have a look at my post again, I edited it to include blog post written by a moderate Muslim who explains the answer to the question.

Not sure How the ADL get treated when they march or even if the do march, I just noticed they have a facebook page.

I realise that BF. As i stated, body swerving and excuses as well imo.

 

[BadFish]

I realise that BF. As i stated, body swerving and excuses as well imo.

Fair enough. the way i see it though is that Brighton Fella asked a decent question which can only really be answered by a moderate Muslim. I provided an answer to his question from a moderate Muslim. That you accuse him of body swerving and making excuses speaks volumes about your mindset on this subject IMO.