Economy question

[Chicken Runner61]

You say austerity. I would say slowly, very slowly, getting your house in order. Its hardly austerity lol. Look at Greece, Ireland and others. They have faced austerity. We continue to bloat ourselves with expectations and services we cant afford.

Hampster - Osborne's austerity measures are only JUST starting - the effects will start to hit home after the next election in the next year. It took 3 years to get them through and in place.

 

[Hampster Gull]

By referring to a WORLD economic crash you are defending New Labour. The cause was not global there is no doubt the effects were, albeit this is largely because of the implications of what happens when the U.S. falls into recession.

It was not a global phenomenon that financial institutions leant out more money that they should, and not least to people that they shouldn't have (sub prime). The U.S. and the UK were at the very forefront of this economic death spiral, both countries leveraging growth from their housing markets.

Both countries governments gave free rein to their financial institutions, so that Banks like Northern Rock offered 125% mortgages and Bradford and Bingley had 60% of their mortgage book self certified, both catastrophic policies that were decided on in the UK.

When the crunch came as it inevitably would, as oppose to some "people" who though they had abolished the cycle of boom and bust Banks were left holding debts with no source of liquidity, and then they were effectively bust.

Balls and Miliband were at the epicentre of the UK's financial strategy when Brown was in power, they would have supported the knighthood of people like Fred Goodwin.........they should be pariahs, it's an insult to the sane electorate that they stand for PM and Chancellor.

They have apologised for their record of failing to regulate the banks, however the global financial crisis is a lie, and as Joseph Geoebals stated........

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Wake up.

This. Spot on

 

[Hampster Gull]

Hampster - Osborne's austerity measures are only JUST starting - the effects will start to hit home after the next election in the next year. It took 3 years to get them through and in place.

I think you find they are way off austerity in the sense of greece and ireland. Scaremongering

 

[cunning fergus]

I'm not saying what they did was in any way sensible but like I said, how many mortgages were 125% and how many of those actually went into arrears and were repossessed. Between 1992 and 1997 there were and average of 10,386,000 outstanding mortgages each year and over that period there were just over 300,000 repossessions and over the 6 year period from 2008 there were an average of 11,368,000 O/S mortgages and over that period there were only 227,500 repossessions.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/live-tables-on-repossession-activity

As for blaming the labour party, yes it happened on their watch and nothing will change that however can you provide links to what the Tory party were proposing or warning of at the time. Let's not forget that Osborne was shadow chancellor during this time so I presume that he was shouting from the roof tops about the impending financial disaster!

Finally, you seem quite dismissive of the situation in the states!

There were plenty of ways that Banks employed to ensure people could access the housing market, Northern Rock's 125% mortgage arrangement is merely symptomatic. The overall effect was a housing market over heating and the general belief that "property" was the road to riches...........as with all booms it had to come to an end and at that point there would be plenty left holding the baby.

There still are, the victims no-one really cares about are the savers, those who didn't engage in financial largesse, but tried to put money aside for (say) retirement. They will be stuffed for years to come all the while the BoE have to protect millions of people in property that they cannot afford...........which is now a whole new financial services industry in itself.

As for the politics, deal with the facts, I am no tory, but Labour were at the wheel, Miliband and Balls were right there, signing off Brown's end of boom and bust speech..........if Labour were serious about change those 2 would be working in McDonalds now.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Not sure why you've highlighted that part. I believe the whole sentence deserves repeating



The single most stupid sentence i have seen/heard this election. It appears the whole credit crunch was due to tax credits

If you think thats what I inferred you need to read the thread again. The point was that One of the most stupid things New Labour did was to introduce tax credits - that was a big part of the over spending they did, people were getting thousands of pounds the country couldn't afford

 

[Chicken Runner61]

By referring to a WORLD economic crash you are defending New Labour. The cause was not global there is no doubt the effects were, albeit this is largely because of the implications of what happens when the U.S. falls into recession.

It was not a global phenomenon that financial institutions leant out more money that they should, and not least to people that they shouldn't have (sub prime). The U.S. and the UK were at the very forefront of this economic death spiral, both countries leveraging growth from their housing markets.

Both countries governments gave free rein to their financial institutions, so that Banks like Northern Rock offered 125% mortgages and Bradford and Bingley had 60% of their mortgage book self certified, both catastrophic policies that were decided on in the UK.

When the crunch came as it inevitably would, as oppose to some "people" who though they had abolished the cycle of boom and bust Banks were left holding debts with no source of liquidity, and then they were effectively bust.

Balls and Miliband were at the epicentre of the UK's financial strategy when Brown was in power, they would have supported the knighthood of people like Fred Goodwin.........they should be pariahs, it's an insult to the sane electorate that they stand for PM and Chancellor.

They have apologised for their record of failing to regulate the banks, however the global financial crisis is a lie, and as Joseph Geoebals stated........

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Wake up.

The lie bit works both ways - if you don't think that most of the globe didn't get involved in the crash they you need to wake up. The crash was caused by financial institutions and world banks across the globe, Yes New labour did some stupid things but it was following on from what Thatcher did in the eighties and nineties. And do you think Osbourne and Cameron or even Miliband and Balls are going to change much of whats wrong now?

The Banks are being rebuilt using high charges and interest rates on small loans and mortgages at the expense of the tax payer. When they have covered up the past as much as they can they will be given free reign to repeat the mistakes and crash again.

If the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result then how dumb is voting for the same policies and expecting change or a better system?

 

[drew]

There were plenty of ways that Banks employed to ensure people could access the housing market, Northern Rock's 125% mortgage arrangement is merely symptomatic. The overall effect was a housing market over heating and the general belief that "property" was the road to riches...........as with all booms it had to come to an end and at that point there would be plenty left holding the baby.

There still are, the victims no-one really cares about are the savers, those who didn't engage in financial largesse, but tried to put money aside for (say) retirement. They will be stuffed for years to come all the while the BoE have to protect millions of people in property that they cannot afford...........which is now a whole new financial services industry in itself.

As for the politics, deal with the facts, I am no tory, but Labour were at the wheel, Miliband and Balls were right there, signing off Brown's end of boom and bust speech..........if Labour were serious about change those 2 would be working in McDonalds now.

Doesn't matter whether you're a tory or not but do you think it would have been any different under Michael Howard?

 

[Hampster Gull]

The lie bit works both ways - if you don't think that most of the globe didn't get involved in the crash they you need to wake up. The crash was caused by financial institutions and world banks across the globe, Yes New labour did some stupid things but it was following on from what Thatcher did in the eighties and nineties. And do you think Osbourne and Cameron or even Miliband and Balls are going to change much of whats wrong now?

The Banks are being rebuilt using high charges and interest rates on small loans and mortgages at the expense of the tax payer. When they have covered up the past as much as they can they will be given free reign to repeat the mistakes and crash again.

If the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result then how dumb is voting for the same policies and expecting change or a better system?

Ah, another one along the lines its not to do with Labour. Thatcher started the deregulation of the city so its must be the tories fault that after 11 years of Labours governance over regulation that it all fell apart. I think brown and blair were toobusy infighting, woowing the city and inviting the socialites to number 10 tonotice much a out regulation

 

[Chicken Runner61]

There were plenty of ways that Banks employed to ensure people could access the housing market, Northern Rock's 125% mortgage arrangement is merely symptomatic. The overall effect was a housing market over heating and the general belief that "property" was the road to riches...........as with all booms it had to come to an end and at that point there would be plenty left holding the baby.

There still are, the victims no-one really cares about are the savers, those who didn't engage in financial largesse, but tried to put money aside for (say) retirement. They will be stuffed for years to come all the while the BoE have to protect millions of people in property that they cannot afford...........which is now a whole new financial services industry in itself.

As for the politics, deal with the facts, I am no tory, but Labour were at the wheel, Miliband and Balls were right there, signing off Brown's end of boom and bust speech..........if Labour were serious about change those 2 would be working in McDonalds now.

I'm with you on pretty much all of this - Brown was dopey, he wanted to be PM so much he completely lost the plot on what was going on (but I would add globally you won't agree)

You wait for the pensions mess to hit home in a few years - The housing market is soaked in what would have been pension money already and the economy is going to be grown using over 55 pension funds just as they did in the eighties and nineties with the uk's utilities.

People need homes and they need to own them not rent them - When people own their own homes they care more about them and they build families and social roots around them and they areas they live in. We need a stable housing market, a stable education system and health service and stable employment. What we have now is zero hour contracts, job insecurity, and a housing market that is is based on moving and making money rather than a home. Young people can't buy a home to renovate and start from because there is a queue of developers or Buy to let investors that will take that property out of their reach. This has all come about because of a political system based on finance rather than what people need.

There isn't a party to vote for that is doing anything to sort out the mess.

 

[drew]

Ah, another one along the lines it's not to do with Labour. Thatcher started the deregulation of the city so its must be the tories fault that after 11 years of Labours governance over regulation that it all fell apart. I think brown and blair were toobusy infighting, woowing the city and inviting the socialites to number 10 tonotice much a out regulation

I'm not sure anyone is saying it is nothing to do with Labour, more that both parties were complicit, both in their actions when they were in power and their opposition when they weren't!

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Ah, another one along the lines its not to do with Labour. Thatcher started the deregulation of the city so its must be the tories fault that after 11 years of Labours governance over regulation that it all fell apart. I think brown and blair were toobusy infighting, woowing the city and inviting the socialites to number 10 tonotice much a out regulation

Thats because you actually think New Labour is totally different to the tories - they are not - which is why Blair and Brown in the end actually had thatcher round to no 10 for tea and cake!

There's about as much difference between the two as there is between mild and mature Cheddar! You give me one fundamental policy that shows a major difference between them

 

[Hampster Gull]

I'm not sure anyone is saying it is nothing to do with Labour, more that both parties were complicit, both in their actions when they were in power and their opposition when they weren't!

That is one big fat cop out

 

[Hampster Gull]

Thats because you actually think New Labour is totally different to the tories - they are not - which is why Blair and Brown in the end actually had thatcher round to no 10 for tea and cake!

There's about as much difference between the two as there is between mild and mature Cheddar! You give me one fundamental policy that shows a major difference between them

They were and are the Labour party. I love this Labour argument, anything that went wrong had nothing to do with them and if it did the tories would have done the same and anyway the last Labour government was really a tory one but they forgot to tell their voters so dupped them for 13 years. This just keeps giving.

 

[drew]

That is one big fat cop out

You must be that contortionist that Pearson was on about the other day.

 

[Hampster Gull]

You must be that contortionist that Pearson was on about the other day.

Missed hat but will check it out

 

[Lincoln Imp]

If you think thats what I inferred you need to read the thread again. The point was that One of the most stupid things New Labour did was to introduce tax credits - that was a big part of the over spending they did, people were getting thousands of pounds the country couldn't afford

If you think 'inferred' means what I think you think it means you need to read the dictionary again.

 

[cunning fergus]

The lie bit works both ways - if you don't think that most of the globe didn't get involved in the crash they you need to wake up. The crash was caused by financial institutions and world banks across the globe, Yes New labour did some stupid things but it was following on from what Thatcher did in the eighties and nineties. And do you think Osbourne and Cameron or even Miliband and Balls are going to change much of whats wrong now?

The Banks are being rebuilt using high charges and interest rates on small loans and mortgages at the expense of the tax payer. When they have covered up the past as much as they can they will be given free reign to repeat the mistakes and crash again.

If the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result then how dumb is voting for the same policies and expecting change or a better system?

Let's be absolutely clear, plenty of institutions and countries got caught up in the consequences of the crisis, they were not all involved in the cause.

Take HBOS, they had massive exposure to the UK housing market, because they had instituted mortgage products and policies that were not sensible; which was in direct contrast to its more conservative lending policies historically.

The same can be said of Bradford and Bingley and RBS, albeit RBS sought to increase its size due to a massive acquisition programme which included the purchase of US sub prime lenders, then ABN AMRO which itself had exposure to the US sub prime market. All these institutions crashed and required taxpayer bailout..........they are UK registered and regulated institutions.

Thatcher's economic policies may well have created the environment for aggressive capitalist practices, but that was not the environment in banking when they left office in 1997. Labour on the other hand created the FSA with the Financial Services and Markets Act, and so they created the light touch regulatory system that they patted themselves on the back with all the while that the financial services industry was booming and delivering record levels of tax and growth. I don't care that the tories may well have been worse, that is conflating conjecture with fact.

What's more two of the idiots who were at the centre of power at that time are now standing for office again............anyone advocating their election in 2015 is a ****ing ****.

 

[cunning fergus]

Doesn't matter whether you're a tory or not but do you think it would have been any different under Michael Howard?

Your own political prejudice and lack of objectivity mean you can easily reconcile the realms of reality and fantasy, like a schizophrenic.........you need treatment, stop posting and get down to the hospital.

 

[cunning fergus]

I'm with you on pretty much all of this - Brown was dopey, he wanted to be PM so much he completely lost the plot on what was going on (but I would add globally you won't agree)

You wait for the pensions mess to hit home in a few years - The housing market is soaked in what would have been pension money already and the economy is going to be grown using over 55 pension funds just as they did in the eighties and nineties with the uk's utilities.

People need homes and they need to own them not rent them - When people own their own homes they care more about them and they build families and social roots around them and they areas they live in. We need a stable housing market, a stable education system and health service and stable employment. What we have now is zero hour contracts, job insecurity, and a housing market that is is based on moving and making money rather than a home. Young people can't buy a home to renovate and start from because there is a queue of developers or Buy to let investors that will take that property out of their reach. This has all come about because of a political system based on finance rather than what people need.

There isn't a party to vote for that is doing anything to sort out the mess.

I agree with you on this too, the recent policy to allow people to access their pensions means that the housing market is being stoked again. Generally those that access it will be handing it down to family for deposits, good for those with responsible parents and grandparents.

Then again, it was Brown that taxed pension dividends in his first budget which meant housing became a more attractive option than pensions..........this generated billions of tax income Which could have been used to help protect the economy from shocks........who knows where that went.

I'm sure Balls and Miliband know.

 

[drew]

Your own political prejudice and lack of objectivity mean you can easily reconcile the realms of reality and fantasy, like a schizophrenic.........you need treatment, stop posting and get down to the hospital.

Think you need to take a chill pill before you burst a blood vessel. Voting on Thursday will be based on what people think each party will do over the next five years which, correct me if I'm wrong, is conjecture. As for lack of objectivity, give me a break.