[Football] Duffy

[The Fits]

Jesus Christ guys. I’m sure there are plenty of forums to argue the nuances of the Northern Irish issue but is this really the place?

Back to the football- Duffy wouldn’t let us down, I’m certain of that. But do suspect a move would be best for both parties at this stage in his career.

 

[Wardy's twin]

To be clear - the republican paramilitaries had minority support in the Catholic community in the North during the Troubles (and very little support in the South). A large section of the Catholic community understood that the tactics of urban guerillaism was a dead end politically in terms of changing the landscape in the North and generally the IRA only saw significant support and recruitment when the British forces carried out atrocities (e.g. the murder of 11 people in Ballymurphy or the murder of 14 people on Bloody Sunday). At any one time the IRA probably had at most 400/500 in 'active service units' and 'military actions' were hit and miss in terms of organisation and impact. Indeed - it is worth noting that the IRA's biggest military successes were also actually their biggest political failures (e.g. the Enniskillen bombing, the Brighton bombing, the Shankill bombing) and their biggest military failures were their biggest political propaganda successes (e.g. the SAS murder in Gibraltar of the three members of an unarmed IRA unit who were planning a bomb attack on British troops in the town). It wasn't until the republican movement called a ceasefire for their paramilitary wing that they started gaining political support (assisted by the sectarian nature of the Good Friday Agreement) - and unfortunately, the wheel is now starting to come full circle with an increase potential for a return of paramilitary violence in the North.

I can empathise with people who were there of all groups , the front line squaddies were put in a terrible place but let's not forget the history of the troubles and effect on all populations.

In 1969 People wanted equal rights not union with the south this provoked attacks on catholic areas. There was graffiti on the walsl IRA = I Ran Away and people forget that the British Army was put into NI to protect the Catholic population , problem was no one told the military commanders and things certainly took a twist when the Conservative and Unionist got into power in the UK. The IRA saw the developments and the opportunity and exploited it by intimidating catholics who had previously welcomed the army and the polarisation and violence spiralled upwards including attacks on soldiers .

It should be noted that protestant paramilitaries also killed British soldiers.

Not sure if anyone knows Duffy's family history so before blaming him maybe that could or should be reviewed.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Each to their own.
I had history with republicans on a ‘professional’ basis in the late 70s.
I don’t want anything to do with anyone of that persuasion and find it offensive that he can be so disrespectful to the country (and city) where he earns his living.

Having served and lived with Royal Marines in the early to mid 80’s I’ve heard some of the stories about tours over the water. I can fully understand why he’s taken the stance that he has. I suspect a great many haven’t or can’t move on …..


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I know.

But l guess unless he was there, he couldn't possibly understand.

Whilst most of us have moved on, want to move on and should move on, I fully agree that we should respect what people have gone through, or what people close to them have gone through. It works both ways though, so if it's close to his heart I'll respect Duffys views as much as the posters on here, whilst accepting those involved find it hard to do the same. It was a horrible conflict that destroyed lives on both sides and I'm thankful it's in the rear mirror. Hope it stays there.

 

[b.w.2.]

Jesus Christ guys. I’m sure there are plenty of forums to argue the nuances of the Northern Irish issue but is this really the place?

Back to the football- Duffy wouldn’t let us down, I’m certain of that. But do suspect a move would be best for both parties at this stage in his career.

I agree with all of this, and apologise for getting sucked into the NI thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

OK, so let's consider NSC's response if the Albion sign a player who openly supports Tommy Robinson (someone I'd genuinely never heard of until NSC featured him in some threads) and Brexit (the same thing as Tommy Robinson in some people's minds). Well yes, his personal beliefs and politics are his business - he's entitled to them - but hey, he's a 20 goal a seaon in the PL striker for the Albion ...................... I think I could safely predict some degree of meltdown. One way or the other! You choose!

For clarification - I do not support Irish republicanism and opposed their military campaign throughout the Troubles - but it is an utterly false narrative to compare Irish republicanism with fascism.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

I can empathise with people who were there of all groups , the front line squaddies were put in a terrible place but let's not forget the history of the troubles and effect on all populations.

In 1969 People wanted equal rights not union with the south this provoked attacks on catholic areas. There was graffiti on the walsl IRA = I Ran Away and people forget that the British Army was put into NI to protect the Catholic population , problem was no one told the military commanders and things certainly took a twist when the Conservative and Unionist got into power in the UK. The IRA saw the developments and the opportunity and exploited it by intimidating catholics who had previously welcomed the army and the polarisation and violence spiralled upwards including attacks on soldiers .

It should be noted that protestant paramilitaries also killed British soldiers.

Not sure if anyone knows Duffy's family history so before blaming him maybe that could or should be reviewed.

You are correct - the NI civil rights movement was a campaign for equal rights for Catholics as UK citizens - a campaign supported by a large section of the Protestant community as well. The sectarian attacks against the Bogside in Derry and other Catholic communities were not driven by the prospect of equal rights for Catholics, but by the fear that granting civil rights could/would radicalise both the Catholic and Protestant working class (socialist organisations were growing rapidly at the time) and lead to further demands for economic and social emancipation.

There is a bit of a myth about the 'I Ran Away' stuff - the IRA was largely defunct as a paramilitary force by 1969 (despite loyalist paramilitaries carrying out sectarian gun attacks throughout the late 1960s) and its political wing had shifted significantly to the left. Indeed the SF/IRA split in late 1969 was a right-wing split that later went on to become the Provos and PSF (when then shifted dramatically to the left in the early 1970s).

The British Army were not sent into the North to protect the Catholic community (that was a side effect) - but to prevent the North spiraling into a sectarian civil war that would have spilled over into the South and into Britain. While the troops were initially welcomed in the Bogside and in Belfast, within days it became perfectly clear to the Catholic community that the British Army were there to impose repression at the point of a gun wielded by a different uniform. There was no anti-troops intimidation by the IRA, they didn't need to do it. Where the IRA (and loyalist paramilitaries) did act was to suppress local anti-sectarian cross community defence committees which sprang up in the North in late 1969 (and the British Army and the RIC stood by and let them do it). Violence spiraled out of control because of atrocities carried out by loyalist paramilitaries and the British Army which sent Catholic youths flooding into the arms of the PIRA (and to a lesser degree the Official IRA).

As for Duffy - his mother is from Derry and his father is from Letterkenny in Donegal. The Catholic population of Derry were the most discriminated community throughout the North with political cronyism, police (and later army) repression and loyalist sectarian attacks an almost daily occurrence even before the Troubles broke out. It was also the home of the sectarian bigots of the Apprentice Boys and a constant reminder of the discrimination faced by Catholics. It is no surprise that the birthplace of the civil rights movement was in Derry and that hundreds of working class youth were active in the Derry Young Socialists. It should also be noted that Derry saw some of the worst sectarian attacks during the Troubles and the worst atrocities by the British Army (Bloody Sunday) so it is hardly a surprise that the Troubles have left and indelible mark on the psyche of Catholics in the city. The fact that Duffy mildly (in comparison to James McClean for example) reflects this history is some of his comments should be expected (and understood).

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

OK, so let's consider NSC's response if the Albion sign a player who openly supports Tommy Robinson (someone I'd genuinely never heard of until NSC featured him in some threads) and Brexit (the same thing as Tommy Robinson in some people's minds). Well yes, his personal beliefs and politics are his business - he's entitled to them - but hey, he's a 20 goal a seaon in the PL striker for the Albion ...................... I think I could safely predict some degree of meltdown. One way or the other! You choose!

I think it would depend how vociferous and outspoken he (or she) was about it. If a player were suddenly to start spouting obnoxious opinions, then they should expect to get it in the neck.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

It was a horrible conflict that destroyed lives on both sides and I'm thankful it's in the rear mirror. Hope it stays there.

Unfortunately that is unlikely to be the case - the Good Friday Agreement institutionalised sectarianism in the Northern Irish state. It did nothing more than kick the problem of British intervention and sectarianism down the road while holding out a carrot for possible (and unfulfilled) improvement in the lot of the Catholic population. In reality it stored up a growing mountain of problems for the future and the chickens are starting to come home to roost. Sectarianism is now more deeply embedded in NI society than at any time since the early 1920s - and with demographic changes, republicanism is now more emboldened to make increasing demands on the British government. Unfortunately their demand for a border poll (a referendum on Irish unification) opens up the prospect of a re-ignited sectarian conflict. Sectarian riots are now commonplace in interface areas between the Catholic and Protestant communities and this is only likely to escalate. Just as the Catholic working class in the North resisted sectarian British and Unionist rule for nearly 100 years - the Protestant working class will resist being forced into a United Ireland.

This is a problem of British Imperialism's making - the imperialists in Downing Street and Whitehall stoked the fire of sectarianism for nearly 200 years because it served their imperialist interests and they have no solution to the problem they created. In reality the only way out of the conflict is through the united action of Catholic and Protestant working class people in a struggle for economic, social and political emancipation for all against the rule of British imperialism and Irish nationalism.

 

[Wardy's twin]

You are correct - the NI civil rights movement was a campaign for equal rights for Catholics as UK citizens - a campaign supported by a large section of the Protestant community as well. The sectarian attacks against the Bogside in Derry and other Catholic communities were not driven by the prospect of equal rights for Catholics, but by the fear that granting civil rights could/would radicalise both the Catholic and Protestant working class (socialist organisations were growing rapidly at the time) and lead to further demands for economic and social emancipation.

There is a bit of a myth about the 'I Ran Away' stuff - the IRA was largely defunct as a paramilitary force by 1969 (despite loyalist paramilitaries carrying out sectarian gun attacks throughout the late 1960s) and its political wing had shifted significantly to the left. Indeed the SF/IRA split in late 1969 was a right-wing split that later went on to become the Provos and PSF (when then shifted dramatically to the left in the early 1970s).

The British Army were not sent into the North to protect the Catholic community (that was a side effect) - but to prevent the North spiraling into a sectarian civil war that would have spilled over into the South and into Britain. While the troops were initially welcomed in the Bogside and in Belfast, within days it became perfectly clear to the Catholic community that the British Army were there to impose repression at the point of a gun wielded by a different uniform. There was no anti-troops intimidation by the IRA, they didn't need to do it. Where the IRA (and loyalist paramilitaries) did act was to suppress local anti-sectarian cross community defence committees which sprang up in the North in late 1969 (and the British Army and the RIC stood by and let them do it). Violence spiraled out of control because of atrocities carried out by loyalist paramilitaries and the British Army which sent Catholic youths flooding into the arms of the PIRA (and to a lesser degree the Official IRA).

As for Duffy - his mother is from Derry and his father is from Letterkenny in Donegal. The Catholic population of Derry were the most discriminated community throughout the North with political cronyism, police (and later army) repression and loyalist sectarian attacks an almost daily occurrence even before the Troubles broke out. It was also the home of the sectarian bigots of the Apprentice Boys and a constant reminder of the discrimination faced by Catholics. It is no surprise that the birthplace of the civil rights movement was in Derry and that hundreds of working class youth were active in the Derry Young Socialists. It should also be noted that Derry saw some of the worst sectarian attacks during the Troubles and the worst atrocities by the British Army (Bloody Sunday) so it is hardly a surprise that the Troubles have left and indelible mark on the psyche of Catholics in the city. The fact that Duffy mildly (in comparison to James McClean for example) reflects this history is some of his comments should be expected (and understood).

Agree para 1 Catholic civil rights was seen as the first step on a ladder which would break the establishments control over the people both protestant and catholic.

Para 2 Not a myth but essentially there was no military force worthwhile called the IRA that graffiti that did exist was minor. The point I was making was that 1969 was not an armed rebellion by IRA terrorists as some people might think.

Para 3 I guess it depends on your interpretation but any sectarian war would lead to many more catholic deaths than protestant because the armed power lay with the protestant paramilitaries so helping the catholic population was not just a by product. I agree with your point hence my comment that army was there to protect the catholics but no one told the soldiers. The military command saw it as rebellion/sedition and were keen to treat it like another Aden. I can't pin point the turning point and but by 1970 , voting in a Tory and Unionist party meant there was no going back and polarised views developed furtehr with each killing.

para 4 think that is what i said - Derry probably had it worst so not surprising that someone from there would have strong anti-English views

I also think the British Squaddies were treated badly by their command who wanted to play war and learn how to stop a working class revolution and I can understand why some soldiers still hate the Irish.

The Troubles in Northern Ireland were avoidable they happened because the establishment saw a working class threat to the status quo.

 

[B-right-on]

Duffy thread derailed into a Irish conflict thread.

Can we drop it?

My dad was Catholic Irish, born in Ireland so I have a lot of personal convictions and information, but this is NOT the place to discuss.

 

[Easy 10]

Opens thread to read some Duffy news/opinion...

 

[Husty]

I know.

But l guess unless he was there, he couldn't possibly understand.

Couldn't understand?

Probably.

But I like to think I'd try and rise above the tribalness that had led to me being in whatever place having a shit time I found myself, rather than just becoming part of the conflict's problems in a future generation. Bigger man sort of thing, you know?

Appreciate that's not for everyone though.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Duffy thread derailed into a Irish conflict thread.

Can we drop it?

My dad was Catholic Irish, born in Ireland so I have a lot of personal convictions and information, but this is NOT the place to discuss.

True but discussion about Duffy as a player was being conflated with his political opinions. I will say no more about NI but as far as I can see Duffy has always given 100% as a player (bar that sh*t backpass in the hull game) . If he plays again I am sure he will give 100% and personally his bulk was always useful against the big forwards.