Driving with 62 Points

[Notters]

Does anyone think this is reasonable? Seems mad that you can still get insurance.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39053658

No doubt someone will find a way to blame cyclists.

 

[happypig]

It does seem very hard to understand but without seeing details of what the points were awarded for it's difficult to judge. What I can say is that, having heard exceptional hardship arguments, it's not easy to convince a bench and the argument is just as likely to be rejected.

 

[Diablo]

Does anyone think this is reasonable? Seems mad that you can still get insurance.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39053658

No doubt someone will find a way to blame cyclists.

Bloody Cyclists......

 

[nicko31]

Thought it was some reference to the Championship table for a moment

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

I haven't looked at the article, is it Kemi Agustein?

 

[Notters]

It does seem very hard to understand but without seeing details of what the points were awarded for it's difficult to judge. What I can say is that, having heard exceptional hardship arguments, it's not easy to convince a bench and the argument is just as likely to be rejected.

These are the things points can be awarded for:

Causing death by dangerous driving 14 years’ imprisonment / Unlimited fine / Obligatory disqualification (minimum 2 years) 3 to 11 points (if exceptionally not disqualified)

Dangerous driving 2 years’ imprisonment / Unlimited fine / Obligatory disqualification 3 to 11 points (if exceptionally not disqualified)

Causing death by careless driving under the influence of drink or drugs 14 years’ imprisonment / Unlimited fine / Obligatory disqualification (minimum 2 years) 3 to 11 points (if exceptionally not disqualified)

Careless and inconsiderate driving Unlimited fine / Discretionary disqualification 3 to 9 points

Driving while unfit through drink or drugs or with excess alcohol: or failing to provide a specimen for analysis 6 months’ imprisonment / Unlimited fine / Obligatory disqualification 3 to 11 points (if exceptionally not disqualified)

Failing to stop after an accident or failing to report an accident 6 months’ imprisonment / Unlimited fine / Discretionary disqualification 5 to 10 points

Driving while disqualified 6 months’ imprisonment (12 months in Scotland) / Unlimited fine / Discretionary disqualification 6 points

Driving after refusal or revocation of licence on medical grounds 6 months’ imprisonment / Unlimited fine / Discretionary disqualification 3 to 6 points

Driving without insurance Unlimited fine / Discretionary disqualification 6 to 8 points

Using a vehicle in a dangerous condition LGV or PCV unlimited, other vehicles £2,500/ Obligatory disqualification if offence committed within 3 years of a previous conviction for a similar offence - 6 months min. Otherwise discretionary 3 points in each case

Failure to have proper control of vehicle or full view of the road and traffic ahead, or using a hand-held mobile phone when driving £1,000 fine (£2,500 for PCV or goods vehicle) / Discretionary disqualification 3 points

Driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence £1,000 fine / Discretionary disqualification 3 to 6 points

Speeding £1,000 fine (£2,500 for motorway offences) / Discretionary disqualification 3 to 6, or 3 points (fixed penalty)

Traffic light offences £1,000 fine / Discretionary disqualification 3 points

Surely it would take quite some doing to get 62 points?!

 

[happypig]

These are the things points can be awarded for:

Causing death by dangerous driving 14 years’ imprisonment / Unlimited fine / Obligatory disqualification (minimum 2 years) 3 to 11 points (if exceptionally not disqualified)

Dangerous driving 2 years’ imprisonment / Unlimited fine / Obligatory disqualification 3 to 11 points (if exceptionally not disqualified)

Causing death by careless driving under the influence of drink or drugs 14 years’ imprisonment / Unlimited fine / Obligatory disqualification (minimum 2 years) 3 to 11 points (if exceptionally not disqualified)

Careless and inconsiderate driving Unlimited fine / Discretionary disqualification 3 to 9 points

Driving while unfit through drink or drugs or with excess alcohol: or failing to provide a specimen for analysis 6 months’ imprisonment / Unlimited fine / Obligatory disqualification 3 to 11 points (if exceptionally not disqualified)

Failing to stop after an accident or failing to report an accident 6 months’ imprisonment / Unlimited fine / Discretionary disqualification 5 to 10 points

Driving while disqualified 6 months’ imprisonment (12 months in Scotland) / Unlimited fine / Discretionary disqualification 6 points

Driving after refusal or revocation of licence on medical grounds 6 months’ imprisonment / Unlimited fine / Discretionary disqualification 3 to 6 points

Driving without insurance Unlimited fine / Discretionary disqualification 6 to 8 points

Using a vehicle in a dangerous condition LGV or PCV unlimited, other vehicles £2,500/ Obligatory disqualification if offence committed within 3 years of a previous conviction for a similar offence - 6 months min. Otherwise discretionary 3 points in each case

Failure to have proper control of vehicle or full view of the road and traffic ahead, or using a hand-held mobile phone when driving £1,000 fine (£2,500 for PCV or goods vehicle) / Discretionary disqualification 3 points

Driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence £1,000 fine / Discretionary disqualification 3 to 6 points

Speeding £1,000 fine (£2,500 for motorway offences) / Discretionary disqualification 3 to 6, or 3 points (fixed penalty)

Traffic light offences £1,000 fine / Discretionary disqualification 3 points

Surely it would take quite some doing to get 62 points?!

I know what they can be awarded for, I meant in the case quoted. I agree that getting 62 points without getting disqualified does seem somewhat bizarre.

Having said that, I was away on a course in Staffordshire about 18 years ago and there's a road we'd drive from the training place to the hotel that must have had 4 or 5 sped cameras in the space of 10 miles. I think they were the ones that don't flash. It's possible that you could go through each one every day for a week before you got the notice of the first one (if it was dark you'd not even see them). If you had all the offences heard at the same hearing, you would get 3 points for each one, so accrue 60 odd points on a previously clean license.

 

[drew]

Whilst it would help to know what the accumulation of points is for and what job the moron does, 62 pts on a licence, assuming these have been accumulated over just a three year period, is an absolute joke. If banning would cause hardship then there should be some other punishment meted out as on the face of it, standing in front of magistrates and clocking up points is not deterrent.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Depends what it's for...
Driving to and from a hospital to see a loved one a few times a day, going 40 miles an hour on what you *think* is a dual carriageway. You could get those points before the first notice came through your door.
Unlikely i know, but it would appear this is an extreme case.

 

[BNthree]

In general dangerous driving is dealt with very leniently by UK law. If someone chooses to be reckless whilst driving they should be punished for it.

 

[happypig]

In general dangerous driving is dealt with very leniently by UK law. If someone chooses to be reckless whilst driving they should be punished for it.

Starting point for Dangerous driving is a custodial sentence.

 

[chimneys]

Surely it would take quite some doing to get 62 points?!

Agreed, but if you bothered to read the article:

Common ways people amass so many points:

1. Driving on a familiar road and not realising the cameras are working. Driving a fraction over the limit, twice a day to work and back, could incur 30 points in five days, before the first penalty charge notice has been delivered.

2. Not informing the DVLA of a change of address. "Ignoring" penalty point notices also incurs extra points.


Do 1. twice and you are there!

 

[drew]

Agreed, but if you bothered to read the article:

Common ways people amass so many points:

1. Driving on a familiar road and not realising the cameras are working. Driving a fraction over the limit, twice a day to work and back, could incur 30 points in five days, before the first penalty charge notice has been delivered.

2. Not informing the DVLA of a change of address. "Ignoring" penalty point notices also incurs extra points.


Do 1. twice and you are there!

Surely that though is irrelevant. If you are speeding because you think the camera's aren't working then you are still speeding! As for a fraction over the limit, in West Yorkshire the threshold is 110% of the limit +2. So in a 30, you have to be doing 36 before you get done.

I'm sure that the reasons for the 62pts will come out. The problem will be that there are likely to be people that have similar circumstances but have been treated less leniently. Time will tell.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

Starting point for Dangerous driving is a custodial sentence.

The starting point for a single incident with little or no damage or risk of personal injury is a medium level community order.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/item/dangerous-driving/

 

[Paskman]

Apparently they were mostly incurred from speeding on a motorway! Perhaps he is a traffic cop

 

[Murray 17]

What annoys me is the 'clever' solicitors who pat themselves on the back after helping someone avoid a ban. Let's hope that the drivers they get off don't drive into you or your family afterwards.

 

[happypig]

The starting point for a single incident with little or no damage or risk of personal injury is a medium level community order.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/item/dangerous-driving/

You're right. I was going on the old guidelines which I had. I have downloaded the latest ones.

 

[Baldseagull]

Drive up the M1 and back and you will pass enough roadworks with cameras to get the 62 points in one trip, if the reason you were taking the trip were of some importance and time sensitive, and the loss of your licence would be a disproportionate punishment, on account of the hardship you or your family would face as a consequence, seems fair to still be driving, especially if the licence was previously unblemished.

 

[maltaseagull]

He must have accrued these in a short time otherwise the magistrates need firing!

If you appeal on 12 points due to hardship, then if you have to go back to court again, then it must mean a ban.