Dreadful news about Putin.

[GreersElbow]

He has the support of 60% of the Russian people. The closest opposition is 17%, the Communists, remember them? The opposition politicians the western newspapers are fond of quoting have next to no support, barely single figures.

We can hate Putin, there are plenty of good reasons to, him being a war criminal n all.

But we have to find a better way of dealing with him than pretending he's a Bond villain. We need to listen to the concerns of the 60% of Russian people that support Putin's political bloc. AT THE VERY LEAST the expansion of Nato eastwards has to stop, it's just simply scaring the Russians into supporting Putin all day long.

Eastward expansion? Georgia was denied entry.
Why take the considerations of 60% of Russians and not the Eastern European countries who RAN to NATO.

Absolute bollocks. If you think this has anything to do with NATO as opposed to ideology, you don't have a clue.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

He's still alive.

He might well be 'better' than the alternatives.

 

[somerset]

Can only imagine the sort of chaos Russia would be in with a pussy type president. Russian leaders need to be strong. He is strong with a lot of support in Russia. Theres quite a few even on NSC who hate him with a passion, mostly based on western information.

He has the support that he has, simply because he plucks the traditional strings of the nationalist balalaika,......he stirs up their emotions, he knows the Russians are fervently nationalistic, he knows that there is an historic wariness of the west ( and the east )...... so he masks his disastrous economic performance with bullish rhetoric, together with some land grabs to increase his adoring public headcount.

 

[daveinprague]

He has the support that he has, simply because he plucks the traditional strings of the nationalist balalaika,......he stirs up their emotions, he knows the Russians are fervently nationalistic, he knows that there is an historic wariness of the west ( and the east )...... so he masks his disastrous economic performance with bullish rhetoric, together with some land grabs to increase his adoring public headcount.

im sure he does. Im equally sure western governments do the same.
Apparently he is now an imperialist. Considering how many wars we have been involved in in the last couple of decades compared to the Russians, its pretty funny.

 

[GreersElbow]

im sure he does. Im equally sure western governments do the same.
Apparently he is now an imperialist. Considering how many wars we have been involved in in the last couple of decades compared to the Russians, its pretty funny.

Appalling critical thinking, and just about sums up apologists for Putin. Constant reference to the West's history. We know of the West's history, isn't this the type of actions we condemn rather than excuse?

Russia is equally as imperialist, USSR was imperialist, it aimed to zap all productivity and drive it Moscow bound. Conveniently, Mariupol and its surrounding region happens to border Russia. It's also Ukraine's most productive part, which is now under siege.

 

[somerset]

Appalling critical thinking, and just about sums up apologists for Putin. Constant reference to the West's history. We know of the West's history, isn't this the type of actions we condemn rather than excuse?

Russia is equally as imperialist, USSR was imperialist, it aimed to zap all productivity and drive it Moscow bound. Conveniently, Mariupol and its surrounding region happens to border Russia. It's also Ukraine's most productive part, which is now under siege.

Not forgetting that most of Ukraine's gas fields are in the disputed provinces in the north east border regions being taken over by Russia.

 

[somerset]

im sure he does. Im equally sure western governments do the same.
Apparently he is now an imperialist. Considering how many wars we have been involved in in the last couple of decades compared to the Russians, its pretty funny.

Funny?...…really, you are so selective about your history cherry picking. You know, I actually see the lack of Russia's help in the various crisis of the last couple of decades as a good example of how not to behave, when has Russia ever sent troops or logistics to help anyone, flood, tsunami, war, famine?..... Do you know?........I would hazard a guess at never in my memory of the last 20 or so years......I suspect you may dig something out of the good socialists handbook to correct me, but in general my point will stand.

 

[Philzo-93]

Doing my history dissertation on him. Quite interesting to study this man.

 

[El Presidente]

Funny?...…really, you are so selective about your history cherry picking. You know, I actually see the lack of Russia's help in the various crisis of the last couple of decades as a good example of how not to behave, when has Russia ever sent troops or logistics to help anyone, flood, tsunami, war, famine?..... Do you know?........I would hazard a guess at never in my memory of the last 20 or so years......I suspect you may dig something out of the good socialists handbook to correct me, but in general my point will stand.

Haven't they sent humanitarian help to the Crimea in the last 12 months?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

He might well be 'better' than the alternatives.

This. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[somerset]

Haven't they sent humanitarian help to the Crimea in the last 12 months?

How could I forget.........

 

[Brovion]

Is Putin right-wing or left-wing does anybody know? I know we're supposed to celebrate diversity and all that but it's all getting a bit confusing now. At least in the 1970s you knew where you were.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Is Putin right-wing or left-wing does anybody know? I know we're supposed to celebrate diversity and all that but it's all getting a bit confusing now. At least in the 1970s you knew where you were.

Neither - he's a kleptocrat in it for himself.

 

[jakarta]

Wonderful to see the Tankies out in force, makes you wonder what Putin would have to do before they condemned him.

BTW I think Western politicians of all stripes have been incredibly naïve in regards to Russia for the past 20 years.

Given their history of being run by murderous dictators with massive armed forces to back them up the idea they would automatically become Good Europeans was laughable.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Given their history of being run by murderous dictators with massive armed forces to back them up the idea they would automatically become Good Europeans was laughable.

I think i get your point, although it does come across in a rather bigoted way.

I would however give you the power in europe - Germany.

 

[daveinprague]

Funny?...…really, you are so selective about your history cherry picking. You know, I actually see the lack of Russia's help in the various crisis of the last couple of decades as a good example of how not to behave, when has Russia ever sent troops or logistics to help anyone, flood, tsunami, war, famine?..... Do you know?........I would hazard a guess at never in my memory of the last 20 or so years......I suspect you may dig something out of the good socialists handbook to correct me, but in general my point will stand.

The country was recently declared a re-emerging donor. It gives its (admittedly low) foreign aid to the former soviet republics ie Uzbekistan and similar former Soviet states etc. You should have looked in the 'socialists handbook'...or at least checked first on the internet before your declaration. Your point does not stand.

I notice you mention the 'past 20 years or so'...so your beef isnt with Putin but with Russia generally? Suck it up. Its unlikely to change for you.

 

[daveinprague]

Appalling critical thinking, and just about sums up apologists for Putin. Constant reference to the West's history. We know of the West's history, isn't this the type of actions we condemn rather than excuse?

Russia is equally as imperialist, USSR was imperialist, it aimed to zap all productivity and drive it Moscow bound. Conveniently, Mariupol and its surrounding region happens to border Russia. It's also Ukraine's most productive part, which is now under siege.

The point I was making...as im sure you know, was that we are involved in far more military actions in places that are **** all to do with us, than Russia does...and im talking about recent history. If Russia does it, well, we are on the way to world war 3 obviously.
This shit in the Ukraine has been going on for YEARS...not just since the nationalist coup in the Ukraine that started the Eastern Ukraine wanting to split and go with Russia. You seem to have no sympathy for approximately a third of the country that wants **** all to do with the Ukraine...
I see another poster mentioned oil in the region. Sorry, had no idea. The people in the region have no right to self determination if theres oil there obviously.
.

 

[Simster]

The country was recently declared a re-emerging donor. It gives its (admittedly low) foreign aid to the former soviet republics ie Uzbekistan and similar former Soviet states etc. You should have looked in the 'socialists handbook'...or at least checked first on the internet before your declaration. Your point does not stand.

I notice you mention the 'past 20 years or so'...so your beef isnt with Putin but with Russia generally? Suck it up. Its unlikely to change for you.

This thread is weird as I agree with giggly dave too.

 

[somerset]

The country was recently declared a re-emerging donor. It gives its (admittedly low) foreign aid to the former soviet republics ie Uzbekistan and similar former Soviet states etc. You should have looked in the 'socialists handbook'...or at least checked first on the internet before your declaration. Your point does not stand.

I notice you mention the 'past 20 years or so'...so your beef isnt with Putin but with Russia generally? Suck it up. Its unlikely to change for you.

Former soviet republics, soon to rejoin no doubt, Putin's grand plans aren't going to stop at Ukraine are they?

My problem is absolutely with Putin, he has held federal office since the mid/late 90's,.....that makes my timeline a direct correlation, broadly,.... so my point does stand.

Are you a product of his Directorate S scheme, you seem to be in tune with his distasteful methods.

The country was recently declared a re-emerging donor. It gives its (admittedly low) foreign aid to the former soviet republics ie Uzbekistan and similar former Soviet states etc. You should have looked in the 'socialists handbook'...or at least checked first on the internet before your declaration. Your point does not stand.

I notice you mention the 'past 20 years or so'...so your beef isnt with Putin but with Russia generally? Suck it up. Its unlikely to change for you.

 

[daveinprague]

No, your point does not stand. Whether Putin was there or not, Russia gives aid to former Soviet Republics. Its a fact. So, your point does not stand.

lol@soon to rejoin no doubt....Really? And the basis for this reasoning is?
As youre so well informed, please tell me about Putins 'Grand plans', they sound facinating, and interesting to find somebody in the know here on NSC.
Am i a product of Putins Directorate S scheme? No, but I have been running a Ukrainian music club for six years. How many Ukrainians have you spoken
to about the situation there?