Dont confuse Christianity with religion

[BadFish]

True, although the difference between Millwall and Christianity is that the heart of the message of Christianity is love. People that spew hatred and segregation don't belong to the true church as the church is supposed to reflect Jesus. Most of the churches I''ve been to contain people from all walks of life and different nationalities and reach out to those in need regardless of their background.

Would these people still reach out to people and believe in love without the church?

 

[T soprano]

Jesus died for his own sins not mine - crass

 

[BadFish]

Just to remind you a similar stupid system has allowed the UK to have a government it did not elect. In fact there was always the possibility of a Lib-Lab coalition. Neither even won the most votes let alone a majority. It's not just the C of E that has weird voting systems.

agree with you here but you must admit that the difference between the two seems vast. There is at least some logic in the government system whereas the churches system as describe seems batshit mental.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

Fair enough i completely agree with your sentiment.

But I also think it is human nature for others to connect you with certain groups of which you are a member. I suppose it is similar to me having to answer for anything any other Pom does as if i have something to do with it. These kind of generalisation give me the irrits but i do accept them as a part of life.

you're absolutely correct, it certainly is human nature, and as a "new" christian I guess I will have to learn to accept being lumped together with all sorts of wrong'uns.

personally I think that the big religious institutions, such as the Vatican, do more to put people off religion than to attract them to it and I really don't see the point in them. Some of the actions of the Vatican I find utterly disgusting. I think I'm lucky as I've found a church that is really close to my house with a brilliant leader and loads of great people in it. Were it not for that I doubt I would've stayed past the first week.

 

[Crawley 'Gull]

Would these people still reach out to people and believe in love without the church?

I don't know. quite possiby. However I know for a lot of people I know it's their faith that motivates them and their desire to obey God and the teachings of Jesus, which is evident in the way their lives change when they become Christians.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

Would these people still reach out to people and believe in love without the church?

possibly and no-one can claim that only christians do good in this world or that you can't be a good person without Christ, as it simply not true. But Christianity teaches these beliefs and personally I was a pretty shit person before I turned to religion and I'm not sure I would've even thought of doing some of the work I've done since then were it not for that.

However, some people are just good people with or without religion. The world would be very dull if we all believed the same thing.

 

[BadFish]

I don't know. quite possiby. However I know for a lot of people I know it's their faith that motivates them and their desire to obey God and the teachings of Jesus, which is evident in the way their lives change when they become Christians.

To me this begs the question: Are they doing it for the right reasons (I guess that it is better than not doing it at all)?

I like to think that i am similar to those people you describe yet am not religious, my reason....because I think it is the right way to act.

anyway takes all sorts, I know many Christians and they are wonderful people. I also know many atheists and they are wonderful people too. In fact most people I meet are wonderful and it doesn't really matter what they believe.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

If you could be as be so kind as to answer this question please

some christians believe that genesis 1 is simply a simplified story to explain how the world was created. They still (should) believe that God did it, just not necessarily how it's described in the bible (if there was a "big bang" god could've done it, basically).

 

[BadFish]

possibly and no-one can claim that only christians do good in this world or that you can't be a good person without Christ, as it simply not true. But Christianity teaches these beliefs and personally I was a pretty shit person before I turned to religion and I'm not sure I would've even thought of doing some of the work I've done since then were it not for that.

However, some people are just good people with or without religion. The world would be very dull if we all believed the same thing.

Depends what we all believed.... If we all believed that everyday we should wrestle in Jelly wearing chicken suits I think it would be a fun place.

 

[GNF on Tour]

As the Church’s general synod voted against the ordination of female bishops, the public agreed it was sad indeed that anyone still believed in a temperamental, invisible sky-being.

Mother-of-two Emma Bradford said: “I can’t believe that in this day and age, women still find themselves wanting to be priests.

“Especially when there are other career options like working at the Natural History Museum, a place which is absolutely chock full of dinosaur bones, fossils, tools fashioned by early hominids and other stuff not mentioned in the Bible.

“Although in fairness the Bible does have a bit where some kids are attacked by bears for mocking a bald man. Which is pretty relevant today in the sense that it’s still highly entertaining.”

Meanwhile, Vatican insiders insist it is just a matter of centuries before the Catholic church accepts women bishops.

Stephen Malley, editor of The Catholic Tablet, said: “We take a more cautious view on the theologically immensely nuanced, complex subject of whether women are as good as men.

“We will be reviewing the threat of eternal damnation to those who use contraceptives in roughly the year 8765, and the celibacy of the priesthood in 13265, about the time when the continent of Africa is due to fuse again with mainland Europe.”

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

Homophobic values[/B] - I can understand how people form that view because of the gay marriage stuff and because of a few highly publicised cases of narrow-minded bigoted Christian Couples being (quite rightly) prosecuted for not allowing gay couples to share a bed in their guest house so on, but the truth would be that the Churches are more accepting of gay people than many/most other parts of society.

Interesting point of view...... As I understand it, in all three cases, the guest house owners didn't just disallow homosexual couples to share a room, they also didn't allow unmarried heterosexual couples to do so. It was only the homosexual couples who chose to complain. After all, it would get very few if any headlines in the usual papers, if a heterosexual unmarried couple complained.

I am not homophobic in any way shape or form but I can't understand why the rights of homosexuals to share a bed in a guest house trump the right of somebody to exercise their religious belief. If they are not allowed to practise beliefs that are deemed discriminatory, then I effect it renders the recent vote discriminatory, ergo illegal. I would love to see a homosexual couple try and book a room at a guest house owned by a Muslim and see how that goes down. Christians as a whole are fairly tolerant and I can't help but feel modern secular society is cutting its nose to spite its face. Religious groups tend to do a lot of very good work in the community and can be another hub for socialising, much like pubs used to be. We are eroding these fabrics of community and becoming ever more insular and selfish. Don't see that as a good thing.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

I like to think that i am similar to those people you describe yet am not religious, my reason....because I think it is the right way to act.

.

life would be so much simpler if everyone was like this

 

[Crawley 'Gull]

To me this begs the question: Are they doing it for the right reasons (I guess that it is better than not doing it at all)?

I like to think that i am similar to those people you describe yet am not religious, my reason....because I think it is the right way to act.

anyway takes all sorts, I know many Christians and they are wonderful people. I also know many atheists and they are wonderful people too. In fact most people I meet are wonderful and it doesn't really matter what they believe.

To which I would reply yes, as they're doing it out of love (and not necessity or fear.)

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

Depends what we all believed.... If we all believed that everyday we should wrestle in Jelly wearing chicken suits I think it would be a fun place.

meh, it'd get boring after a while....

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

agree with you here but you must admit that the difference between the two seems vast. There is at least some logic in the government system whereas the churches system as describe seems batshit mental.

I wouldn't say batshit mental..... Just curious. In politics laws have to be passed in the commons then the Lords so not so different to having 3 houses in the C o E. In itself needing a 2/3 majority isn't odd either. I think the Football League have similar. Having both of them together though is strange. I can't help but think the rules were made hundreds of years ago when people devised a system that made it difficult to pass unpopular votes. Self preservation at its worst. Ultimately it will happen, it's just that it will take time to get younger more liberal people into the laity. Not so different to the likes of Royal & Ancient or some of the men only clubs in London. Things change, just more slowly then in general society.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

I am not homophobic in any way shape or form but I can't understand why the rights of homosexuals to share a bed in a guest house trump the right of somebody to exercise their religious belief.

personally I don't think it does affect their right to practice their religion. I live with non-christians and they often partake in, ahem, non-christian activities. They're not impacting on my right to practice my religion, and while I wouldn't do what they're doing, I'm taught not to judge. If you own a guest house, and are Christian, then two blokes enjoying a bit of bum fun in one of the rooms or an unmarried couple getting it on in another room, isn't something that you'd necessarily do and you may not "approve" or whatever, but you shouldn't judge and you certainly shouldn't discriminate against them. I doubt Jesus would've done.

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

personally I don't think it does affect their right to practice their religion. I live with non-christians and they often partake in, ahem, non-christian activities. They're not impacting on my right to practice my religion, and while I wouldn't do what they're doing, I'm taught not to judge. If you own a guest house, and are Christian, then two blokes enjoying a bit of bum fun in one of the rooms or an unmarried couple getting it on in another room, isn't something that you'd necessarily do and you may not "approve" or whatever, but you shouldn't judge and you certainly shouldn't discriminate against them. I doubt Jesus would've done.

Ok, to look at it another way, if you owned a house and rented two of the rooms one to other people, a straight guy and a gay guy, would you be happy with either or both having sex in your house with someone they weren't married to?

I guess from your previous answer that you maybe, which is fine. However there are many, particularly older Christians who grew up with a different moral code. They did practise abstinence before marriage. Why should they HAVE to allow any unmarried couple to have share a room in what is effectively their home if they do not wish for people to?

 

[perseus]

Nailed to a Cross

Oh God said to Abraham, “Kill me a son”
Abe says, “Man, you must be puttin’ me on”
God say, “No.” Abe say, “What?”
God say, “You can do what you want Abe, but
The next time you see me comin’ you better run”

Read more: Highway 61 Revisited | The Official Bob Dylan Site

 

[Guy Fawkes]

If people were to follow the teachings of Jesus and his example of self giving love then what a better world it would be instead of this self absorbed self obsessed me me me attitude.

What brought about, say, the the rise of Women in to be treated more equally in the workplace, the rise of fairness in the treatment of the disabled, elderly and also of so many other, often discriminated groups who were deemed as second class?

Religion? I don't think so, they still discriminate (as seen by the vote on Bishops) They had thousands of years to change things but didn't

As religion has become less important in life, the value of human worth / life has increased
In religious countries, often life is seen as less significant (maybe because of the thought of an afterlife)

 

[HovaGirl]

What really fucks me off is that Christians brainwash their young. My parents-in-law constantly try to do this to my kids, and it really gets to me. I don't preach to my kids that God doesn't exist - I'll leave it to them to make their own minds up. But for some reason, Christians (like most religious groups) feel the need to brainwash the young with their beliefs - including anti-gay crap. It's child abuse

Teaching children about homosexuality is child abuse. Children don't need to know about sex at a young age, and then they only need to learn stuff piecemeal from their parents, one stage at a time, as seems appropriate for their age and the questions they ask. To teach them about homosexuality before they have even left junior school, is just to muddy the waters, because they are still learning about life itself, never mind how babies are made, or about same-sex love affairs. As teenagers, with all the confusions that being a teenager entails, their sexual curiosity is rife, and that is the time to teach them about sexuality in the widest sense of the word.