Does god EXIST?

[GoldWithFalmer]

Eh? If the world is rationally and beautifully ordered, what is the beauty and rationality behind the Japanese earthquake and tsunami?

Blah blah blah is not a good answer.

Just events,events that happen in areas that mankind has chosen to live in and near,why? Volcanic regions along fault lines that are rich in fertile soil,no cause and effect here as such from mankind's decisions but i say see the beauty in all things good and bad,nothing can be all good.

Anybody asking for guarantee's ahead of time in life will be sadly dissapointed,yet God has answered even before you have asked so embrace the positive always..

That's how i see things.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Who created "God"?

God,even god has a God...

 

[Silk]

Just events,events that happen in areas that mankind has chosen to live in and near,why? Volcanic regions along fault lines that are rich in fertile soil,no cause and effect here as such from mankind's decisions but i say see the beauty in all things good and bad,nothing can be all good.

Anybody asking for guarantee's ahead of time in life will be sadly dissapointed,yet God has answered even before you have asked so embrace the positive always..

That's how i see things.

You think we should see the beauty in a disaster that cost thousands of lives? I thought the kiddies would be in bed by now.

Perhaps humanity should abandon the Earth and live somewhere else?

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

You think we should see the beauty in a disaster that cost thousands of lives? I thought the kiddies would be in bed by now.

Perhaps humanity should abandon the Earth and live somewhere else?

Mankind has not got this far with that attitude i am afraid to say... honestly i do not rejoice in disaster,but one must strive to achieve.we have no choice.

 

[readingstockport]

93% of the National Academy of Sciences in the US are Atheist, despite being in a hugely Christian country.

It's VERY clear that the more intelligent and educated someone is, the less likely they are to be religious.

I checked back in for a minute.


That was the survey i was thinking off. Do you have a cite to it please to shut the apologist up?

 

[One Love]

Do you have a cite to it please to shut the apologist up?

Reading, can we really not have an intelligent debate about this? To shut him up!

 

[One Love]

Eh? If the world is rationally and beautifully ordered, what is the beauty and rationality behind the Japanese earthquake and tsunami?

Blah blah blah is not a good answer.

Giving an answer to posts like this would probably create numerous questions in response and quite frankly I can't see the point, especially as the question has been raised not as a genuine enquiry.

 

[Silk]

Giving an answer to posts like this would probably create numerous questions in response and quite frankly I can't see the point, especially as the question has been raised not as a genuine enquiry.

It is a genuine question. I assume you just can't answer it.

 

[One Love]

It is a genuine question. I assume you just can't answer it.

Assume away. Whatever makes you feel better.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Actually it happens all over the place that people from different faiths can work together for the common good.
Someone else on here quoted Northern Ireland. While ostensibly it was all about Protestant against Catholic, I think most people would accept that it was far, far deeper than that and that many many religious people on both sides abhorred the violence.

And in the Middle East I think it is the intransigent views of a comparatively small number of people that causes all the trouble, particularly around israel/palestine - the situation not being helped by American presidential candidates making ridiculous speeches while seeking the jewish vote in their homeland. Most people in Israel want a peaceful settlement and would actually work for it. Look at daniel Barenboim and what he was done with music and building an orchestra where young Israelis and Palestinians can play together.

Obviously there are extremists and terrorists, but the vast majority of people of faith are good people who care about and for their fellow beings irrespective of what those others believe. In this country, most people would accept that our social fabric would fall apart if it wasn't for volunteers and volunteering, and there are statistics that show that the vast majority of people who undertake some sort of voluntary work in this country are people of faith.

CRAP

The Crusades, 30 years war, French wars of religion, numerous civil wars

Not interested in some bloody orchestra I'm relating to the reality of massacre in the name of bigots, sorry religious people

 

[Silk]

Assume away. Whatever makes you feel better.

So, why should anyone take seriously the claim that the universe is "beautifully and rationally ordered" and "fine tuned for life " etc etc if those people making these claims can't be bothered to defend them when they are challenged?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

CRAP

The Crusades, 30 years war, French wars of religion, numerous civil wars

Not interested in some bloody orchestra I'm relating to the reality of massacre in the name of bigots, sorry religious people

I'm not denying that these things happened, but the Crusades were not exactly last week. And most peope these days would abhor what was done in the name of christianity hundred of years ago.

Nor am I denying that bad things still happen in the name of religion, but a muslim fundamentalist terrorist is about as far removed from the people you would find in most mosques in this country as you could possibly get.

So I obviously don't think it is crap, or I wouldn't have said it!

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I'm not denying that these things happened, but the Crusades were not exactly last week. And most peope these days would abhor what was done in the name of christianity hundred of years ago.

Nor am I denying that bad things still happen in the name of religion, but a muslim fundamentalist terrorist is about as far removed from the people you would find in most mosques in this country as you could possibly get.


So I obviously don't think it is crap, or I wouldn't have said it!

Ethnic cleansing
Spread of aids due to the Pope
Persecution of women
Persecution of homosexuals
World overpopulation causing starving especially Africa

All caused by religion, happening now and in the past and will continue in the future.

 

[Surf's Up]

"The world is a cesspit and the bible is a sanctuary" (F Kafka) - i.e. No.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Ethnic cleansing
Spread of aids due to the Pope
Persecution of women
Persecution of homosexuals
World overpopulation causing starving especially Africa

All caused by religion, happening now and in the past and will continue in the future.

I wouldn't deny that all this happens. I think it is stretching a point to say that the Pope is single-handedly responsible for the spread of Aids, or that - presumably from the same issue about contraception - he is responsible for famine in sub-saharan Africa. I am not a catholic and abhor alongside many, many others the dogmatic stance on contraception. But who also probably does most of the work to alleviate the effects of AIDS and of famine? The Churches and the other faith Communities are among the very biggest of the major players in terms of helping people who need help.

Was Ethnic Cleansing about religion or faith, or was it about nationality and ethnic groups with religion just being coincidentally a by-product - that is a genuine question. Persecution of women and homosexuals does happen on religios grounds in some parts of the world, but there are plenty of people who would persecute homosexuals just because they are homosexuals and not for any reason of religion.

Personally I think there should be women Bishops and I would support the idea of gay Marriage. You re right that there is a lot of bad stuff goes on in the world allegedly in the name of religion, butI can't help thinking that Jesus, Mohammed and whoever else would be holding their heads in their hands and wondering what on earth we are playing at sometimes - or rather what some people do in their names. Plenty of the rest of us spend a lot of time trying to put things right, whether it's religious injustice or, more likely, economic injustice.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I wouldn't deny that all this happens. I think it is stretching a point to say that the Pope is single-handedly responsible for the spread of Aids, or that - presumably from the same issue about contraception - he is responsible for famine in sub-saharan Africa. I am not a catholic and abhor alongside many, many others the dogmatic stance on contraception. But who also probably does most of the work to alleviate the effects of AIDS and of famine? The Churches and the other faith Communities are among the very biggest of the major players in terms of helping people who need help.

Was Ethnic Cleansing about religion or faith, or was it about nationality and ethnic groups with religion just being coincidentally a by-product - that is a genuine question. Persecution of women and homosexuals does happen on religios grounds in some parts of the world, but there are plenty of people who would persecute homosexuals just because they are homosexuals and not for any reason of religion.

Personally I think there should be women Bishops and I would support the idea of gay Marriage. You re right that there is a lot of bad stuff goes on in the world allegedly in the name of religion, butI can't help thinking that Jesus, Mohammed and whoever else would be holding their heads in their hands and wondering what on earth we are playing at sometimes - or rather what some people do in their names. Plenty of the rest of us spend a lot of time trying to put things right, whether it's religious injustice or, more likely, economic injustice.

I do agree with you. That is my reason behind my posts. Religion is used by name and not a belief of some greater being, to discriminate, kill, and above all else rule others. That is why religion is totally a man made concept. If there was no religion then these people would use other means to gain their dominance over others whether it be race, colour or creed. Its in human nature and indeed nature itself to rule over others.

 

[readingstockport]

Reading, can we really not have an intelligent debate about this? To shut him up!

OL, i hadn't read this thread again until today. But I notice that pea has no cite for their claim that "between 39% and 52%* of scientists don't believe a God" so I actually feel free to disregard it as a made up claim and would suggest others do also.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I do agree with you. That is my reason behind my posts. Religion is used by name and not a belief of some greater being, to discriminate, kill, and above all else rule others. That is why religion is totally a man made concept. If there was no religion then these people would use other means to gain their dominance over others whether it be race, colour or creed. Its in human nature and indeed nature itself to rule over others.

I know a catholic who, when John Paul the second was Pope, used to refer to him as the "Polish Git", and she was appalled by his ultra conservative stance on just about everything. I w as present about four weeks ago - July 15th to be precise - in an event where an Anglican Bishop, who wholeheartedly supports the possible ordination of women bishops, stated publicly thatin terms of attitudes towards the gay Community, the Churches are way behind the rest of society. I am forced to agree with him.... well, not forced, it encouraged me enormously..... and no, I am not gay, but I have no problem with those who are.

And it sickens me when it becomes evident that the Church authorities have covered up the antics of priests and the like with younger members of their congregations. Normal paedophilia and so on is bad enough, but when it is done in the context of a church it is 100 times worse because it is such an enormous betrayal of trust, abuse of powr and whatever else you might like to say.

rant over, gets off soapbox.

 

[dingodan]

The spiritual question often asked is "why are we here?", or "why is their life?", etc.

The real question is not, "why is there something?". The real question is, why isn't there nothing...?

 

[Phat Baz 68]

If you like to worship on the basis of "faith", being that there might just be a single entity in a fantasy realm called Heaven, that created you and the Earth etc etc
IMHO I think you are insane to the fullest extent of the word.

Charles Darwin
The Origin Of The Species, try reading it !!!!

And when you die my theory is this, there is no heaven !!!! "try thinking about what it was like before you were born"
Can't remember ?
That's exactly what its like when you die IMHO !!!