Does god EXIST?

[DTES]

Of course it needs a cause. Scientific theory is currently favoured towards the theory of "abiogenesis" which is the random and circumstantial creation of life under the incredibly improbable concoction of the right chemical and environmental factors that it supposedly requires.

However despite life being found throughout every corner and crevice of the world, science still isn't sure what exactly life is. We can carbon copy a cell in a laboratory and despite it being physically exactly the same, it is not alive and we are incapable of making it live. So what exactly is life?

Until we can understand what life really is, what gives what would normally be a concoction of inanimate matter the "spark" that makes it live, we will be no closer to answering the greater questions.

As if the creation of life wasn't specific and unlikely enough - it's worth considering what makes life evolve. Evolution is even more improbable and specific in its nature - evolution causes life to adapt, develop traits depending on its environment in order to survive and flourish. The nature of life and evolution are incredibly, some would say divinely, specific. In my opinion it would be extremely naive and ignorant to dismiss this as an inevitability of a massive universe like so much of science theorises it to be.

Hang on, just because science can't explain some things, yet, the only other option must be we were created by an intelligent being?

Indeed. Same point as on another recent thread - absence of an explanation (so far) is not evidence for the supernatural.

Thousands of years ago mankind believed the sun was a god. The fact we hadn't yet explained what it was did not make them right.

 

[halbpro]

Do I believe in a God? I change my opinion on that almost daily. If there is one I like to think of a simple creator God, they created the Universe why would they interfere in our day to day life?

I don't really follow a religion, but I like the some C of E churches for the social side of things. It's also quite interesting to hear the view of modern priests on things, those who don't just retell the bible but bother to interpret it. I have had problems in the past who can't tell the difference between a church and the church. Members of an individual church can be very nice, it's when you get up to the higher levels that things can get a bit nastier and political.

 

[Guy Crouchback]

Does god EXIST?

Yes, I believe God exists.

Mind you, I wrote "believe" not "know" because if I knew, it would
be called knowledge, not faith (and there's a good reason why we
have two different words for these two different concepts).

I took part in tens of similar discussions on the Internet, and found it ultimately
pointless. It is extremely rare to find people who are genuinely interested in the
matter of faith itself, and are willing to conduct a civilised debate without resorting
to ad hominem attacks or using the brilliant reductio ad paedofilum technique
(a recent variant of reductio ad Hitlerum).

After all, when our time comes, we will all find out whether God exists or not
(whether we will like it or not when that happens is a completely different matter).

 

[beorhthelm]

...Even if they have a belief that it is possible, if they do not believe that he does exist, your definition fits.

that would be the defacto atheist on the above scale El Pres posted. 3-5 are agnostics. really, theres no scope for "belief" in atheism, at most an acknowledgment one could be proved wrong.

 

[Biscuit]

But surely the existence of your God relies on your faith not what others think or do not think, if you have faith what do you care about the damned?

I have been ridiculed all my life for my atheism (one day you will grow up and realise you are wrong, surely you made sure you did not give your children your perverted views etc.) why should I not return the favour to those who still, in the current world, believe in fairy stories?

Faith is a funny one isn't it.

In the absence of any scientific fact, you can always argue 'faith'.

I believe that Dinosaurs will walk the planet again, only this time in fairy dresses. I have no evidence to suggest this is true, but I have faith it will happen - and who are you to argue with my faith?

 

[Silk]

If agnostics are not committing either way, then they fall under your definition - quote "atheism is not believing in god". Even if they have a belief that it is possible, if they do not believe that he does exist, your definition fits.

The problem is that agnosticism isn't "not committing either way" as you say, someone who doesn't commit either way doesn't believe in God and is thus an atheist.

 

[DTES]

Sorry - To summarise... the answer to your question is that ... we simply just don't know... All we can do with current knowledge is theorise - and the theory of intelligent design, like it or not, is one of the strongest theories we have.

Sorry, I meant the question of what you meant. Did you mean life, or evolution, needed a cause? I think they are separate questions.

 

[magoo]

the theory of intelligent design, like it or not, is one of the strongest theories we have.

WHAT Utter nonsense. Evolution is the strongest theory we have because it's been PROVEN.

And with that, I'm gone. Mental.

 

[DTES]

The problem is that agnosticism isn't "not committing either way" as you say, someone who doesn't commit either way doesn't believe in God and is thus an atheist.

So how do you define agnosticism?

 

[Biscuit]

the theory of intelligent design, like it or not, is one of the strongest theories we have.

 

[Seagull27]

Sorry, I meant the question of what you meant. Did you mean life, or evolution, needed a cause? I think they are separate questions.

It's a bit of a strange one, what does 'life' actually mean?

Clearly, a bowl of amino acids is not alive. Combine them into a chain to make a protein, eg. an enzyme, and we could pretty much safely say that's not alive either. But together in a cell with a few other chemicals and suddenly it's able to grow, reproduce, repair, die - is this alive? And then put all of these cells together to make some sort of organism - well we can clearly say that it is alive. But where is the line? What does being alive actually entail? There's no sort of chemical or substance in a human body that creates consciousness, at least as far as we know, but there's clearly something going on

Sorry, rambling a bit there

 

[Silk]

So how do you define agnosticism?

Agnosticism is about knowledge. An agnostic says it's not possible to KNOW either way. Atheism/ theism are about BELIEF or the lack of it. Someone who says it's not possible to know has said nothing about what they believe.

 

[Don Quixote]

WHAT Utter nonsense. Evolution is the strongest theory we have because it's been PROVEN.

And with that, I'm gone. Mental.

It wouldn't be a theory if it had been proven would it.

 

[Mutts Nuts]

The BIBLE seems to think that this one god DOES, but humans have existed for THOUSANDS of years BEFORE that book came about. And they worshipped all KINDS of gods before then.

GOD.

No...

 

[Biscuit]

 

[KZNSeagull]

Religion is like a penis.
It is great to have one.
But please don't wave it around in public.
Play with it on your own or in the company of like minded people.
And please don't ram it down my children's throat.

Splendid!!

 

[One Love]

There's no sort of chemical or substance in a human body that creates consciousness, at least as far as we know, but there's clearly something going on

So, an atheist, if he has thought about it at all, has faith that science will one day discover what creates consciousness in a living being.

 

[DTES]

It wouldn't be a theory if it had been proven would it.

There speaks someone who doesn't know what the word "theory" means.

Theory : A coherent statement or set of ideas that explains observed facts or phenomena, or which sets out the laws and principles of something known or observed; a hypothesis confirmed by observation, experiment etc. [from 17th c.]

 

[Seagull27]

So, an atheist, if he has thought about it at all, has faith that science will one day discover what creates consciousness in a living being.

I guess so, yeah. But I assume agnostics and religious people alike would also wish for science to discover that.

It's worth noting that any sort of belief, be it Atheism or a religion, don't go hand in hand with Science, which is knowledge. Fact. It can be used in arguments for either side, but doesn't represent either one of them.

 

[Biscuit]

So, an atheist, if he has thought about it at all, has faith that science will one day discover what creates consciousness in a living being.

Faith would imply that that there is no evidence for believing that future scientific discoveries might find an answer to this.