[Politics] Do we need a General Strike?

[chickens]

It isn’t unreasonable for workers in any sector to expect their wages to cover their basic living costs and provide a bit extra besides.

This stopped being the case about 24 months ago, and with the most recent increases in food and fuel (both home and vehicle) many are having to turn to credit to fund basic requirements such as vehicle maintenance, and any discretionary spending at all. This is not sustainable. You can not ask workers to work for less than it costs them to maintain their household.

These recent inflationary pressures are not driven by wage increases, but substantial wage increases will be required across public and private sectors to deal with them. There’s no way around that without a sustained deflationary period, which is looking highly unlikely.

I absolutely agree that the books need to be balanced, and so this means tax rises, regardless of which party is in power. There is no feasible alternative outside of reducing what government does substantially and closing entire departments.

 

[Bold Seagull]

All these people demanding pay rises must understand that their increases will mean cuts elsewhere. There isn't a bottomless pit of money. Reserves were drained during Lockdown, when the government supported the vast majority of the population, to stay at home, stay safe and still be paid 80% of their salaries. The increases in gas/electric and fuel prices have helped recoup some revenue but the coffers are still pretty empty.
In the private sector, employers are faced with harsh decisions. Defer wage increases and keep jobs or cut jobs and find a bit extra for those who are left. We all have sympathy with key workers but there now seems to be an element of everyone jumping on the bandwagon and demanding more. It feels like the country is now being held to ransom.
These are tough times for everybody. Hundreds of businesses are closing daily and it will get worse before it gets better.

While wealth gaps have increased and got bigger. Funny that.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It isn’t unreasonable for workers in any sector to expect their wages to cover their basic living costs and provide a bit extra besides.

This stopped being the case about 24 months ago, and with the most recent increases in food and fuel (both home and vehicle) many are having to turn to credit to fund basic requirements such as vehicle maintenance, and any discretionary spending at all. This is not sustainable. You can not ask workers to work for less than it costs them to maintain their household.

These recent inflationary pressures are not driven by wage increases, but substantial wage increases will be required across public and private sectors to deal with them. There’s no way around that without a sustained deflationary period, which is looking highly unlikely.

I absolutely agree that the books need to be balanced, and so this means tax rises, regardless of which party is in power. There is no feasible alternative outside of reducing what government does substantially and closing entire departments.

It doesn’t just need personal tax rises, it needs economic growth as this will also yield tax revenue. The quickest and easiest way for instant growth is rejoining the European Economic Area. It’s isn’t spending time trying to agree trade deals for untested markets from a position of economic weakness.

 

[chickens]

It doesn’t just need personal tax rises, it needs economic growth as this will also yield tax revenue. The quickest and easiest way for instant growth is rejoining the European Economic Area. It’s isn’t spending time trying to agree trade deals for untested markets from a position of economic weakness.

Strangely, I see huge opportunities for economic growth in the (necessary and inevitable) transition to green energy and an aging infrastructure in need of widespread replacement. The very areas that our current government are stamping down on hard and trying to suppress.

 

[Fignon's Ponytail]

My youngest is due to fly into Heathrow at 5am on the 23rd from Cape Town. Really hoping they get back OK as the missus is already panicking about not having him home for Christmas.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Absolutely but that is not what the punters want to read, so please stop this unwelcome dose of reality.

A dose of reality if you are so closed minded you cannot see any other methods of fiscal policy, economic management, or wealth distribution. Just the status quo. They must be doing the best they or anyone can do.

 

[Swansman]

All these people demanding pay rises must understand that their increases will mean cuts elsewhere. There isn't a bottomless pit of money. Reserves were drained during Lockdown, when the government supported the vast majority of the population, to stay at home, stay safe and still be paid 80% of their salaries. The increases in gas/electric and fuel prices have helped recoup some revenue but the coffers are still pretty empty.
In the private sector, employers are faced with harsh decisions. Defer wage increases and keep jobs or cut jobs and find a bit extra for those who are left. We all have sympathy with key workers but there now seems to be an element of everyone jumping on the bandwagon and demanding more. It feels like the country is now being held to ransom.
These are tough times for everybody. Hundreds of businesses are closing daily and it will get worse before it gets better.

People need to be able to afford food and a roof over their head, this is what the people suggesting that other people "must understand that their increases will mean cuts elsewhere" needs to understand, but apparently struggle grasp.

There is an almost bottomless pit of money. The majority of it ends up in the hands of the wealthy. Some of it ends up in tax havens.

People asking for reasonable pay and work conditions is not unsustainable. A company like Facebook making £3bn in the UK while paying £29m in taxes is unsustainable. It is a hemorrhage of resources. Apple paying £7m in taxes on a £50m+ profit is not sustainable. Amazon paying £1m in taxes while making £204m in profits is not sustainable.

It is obvious and clear that money that could support the society and the people within it - actually not only support it, but improve societies and peoples lives - end up in hundreds of black holes like this.

One of the main reasons I turned into a leftist is the right-wing desire to blame the common man for the sufferings of countries (and for that matter the entire planet) while completely failing to miss out on these giant leeches sucking us all dry.

 

[B-right-on]

Maybe time for people to wake up and realise capitalism doesn’t work.

Because Communism or Dictatorship or Kingdoms are a better choice?

Capitalism is far from perfect but at least we get a say in who runs the country every few years and complain/moan on here and in life about how f'ed up the Govt is. Good luck with that in the old USSR, Nazi Germany, China, Cambodia under Pol Pott etc etc etc. Without a visit from the secret police.

History is full of examples that power doesn't belong in the hands of a very small few or single person (any less people than we have in our electoral system).

 

[Hastings gull]

People need to be able to afford food and a roof over their head, this is what the people suggesting that other people "must understand that their increases will mean cuts elsewhere" needs to understand, but apparently struggle grasp.

There is an almost bottomless pit of money. The majority of it ends up in the hands of the wealthy. Some of it ends up in tax havens.

People asking for reasonable pay and work conditions is not unsustainable. A company like Facebook making £3bn in the UK while paying £29m in taxes is unsustainable. It is a hemorrhage of resources. Apple paying £7m in taxes on a £50m+ profit is not sustainable. Amazon paying £1m in taxes while making £204m in profits is not sustainable.

It is obvious and clear that money that could support the society and the people within it - actually not only support it, but improve societies and peoples lives - end up in hundreds of black holes like this.

One of the main reasons I turned into a leftist is the right-wing desire to blame the common man for the sufferings of countries (and for that matter the entire planet) while completely failing to miss out on these giant leeches sucking us all dry.

Whilst the figures you quote about firms like Amazon, are very annoying, you show again that you tend to be only too ready to over-simplify matters, choosing to quote convenieint issues, and in order to give some credence to your thoughts, throw all sorts of wild statements about botomless pits, hundreds of black holes and a tendency to blame the common man for society's ills, not that i have ever seen or read such a thing.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Because Communism or Dictatorship or Kingdoms are a better choice?

Capitalism is far from perfect but at least we get a say in who runs the country every few years and complain/moan on here and in life about how f'ed up the Govt is. Good luck with that in the old USSR, Nazi Germany, China, Cambodia under Pol Pott etc etc etc. Without a visit from the secret police.

History is full of examples that power doesn't belong in the hands of a very small few or single person (any less people than we have in our electoral system).

Typically the definition of Capitalism is:
"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state."

The alternative to this isn't limited to Communism or dictatorships. We have put our utilities, transport infrastructure, some of our healthcare, our social housing and social service provisions into the hands of private companies and foreign investors.

Do you honestly feel that the rail companies, water companies, energy companies all run privately is the only choice and the best choice, really?

 

[Hastings gull]

Because Communism or Dictatorship or Kingdoms are a better choice?

Capitalism is far from perfect but at least we get a say in who runs the country every few years and complain/moan on here and in life about how f'ed up the Govt is. Good luck with that in the old USSR, Nazi Germany, China, Cambodia under Pol Pott etc etc etc. Without a visit from the secret police.

History is full of examples that power doesn't belong in the hands of a very small few or single person (any less people than we have in our electoral system).

Yes, fully agree. Capitalism is clearly not perfect as it can encourage greed as well as far more admirable entrepreunerism, but looking around the world, and back in history, it is a hell of a lot better than the alternatives we have witnessed and continue to do so. Yes, we could lurch to the left and install a worker's paradise, though strangely, this type of government needs a secret police to enforce the policies, which should be the warning sign for everyone contemplating such a change.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

 

[WATFORD zero]

But we have two more years to go before we get the chance to change Government. Shirely people understood what they were voting for

I think there are a lot more pennies still to drop, if this thread is anything to go by

Yes, fully agree. Capitalism is clearly not perfect as it can encourage greed as well as far more admirable entrepreunerism, but looking around the world, and back in history, it is a hell of a lot better than the alternatives we have witnessed and continue to do so. Yes, we could lurch to the left and install a worker's paradise, though strangely, this type of government needs a secret police to enforce the policies, which should be the warning sign for everyone contemplating such a change.

Because Secret Police only exist under left wing governments

 

[Swansman]

Whilst the figures you quote about firms like Amazon, are very annoying, you show again that you tend to be only too ready to over-simplify matters, choosing to quote convenieint issues, and in order to give some credence to your thoughts, throw all sorts of wild statements about botomless pits, hundreds of black holes and a tendency to blame the common man for society's ills, not that i have ever seen or read such a thing.

This - "ees complicated and therefore acceptable" is the normal right-wing response to why 1% of the people are allowed to own 45% of the wealth in this world - and it is very difficult to see it is anything but very successful brainwashing that plenty of common people just accept this and get angry about some people wanting to make £13 an hour rather than £11.

Yes, fully agree. Capitalism is clearly not perfect as it can encourage greed as well as far more admirable entrepreunerism, but looking around the world, and back in history, it is a hell of a lot better than the alternatives we have witnessed and continue to do so. Yes, we could lurch to the left and install a worker's paradise, though strangely, this type of government needs a secret police to enforce the policies, which should be the warning sign for everyone contemplating such a change.

Capitalism also needs secret police. The alternatives were never allowed to succeed because the capitalist secret police overthrew governments that wanted something different, killed hundreds of thousands of socialists, installed military dictatorships... all to make sure that capitalism survived:

Overthrowing other people’s governments: The Master List – William Blum

Instances of the United States overthrowing, or attempting to overthrow, a foreign government since the Second World War.

williamblum.org

 

[A1X]

All these people demanding pay rises must understand that their increases will mean cuts elsewhere. There isn't a bottomless pit of money. Reserves were drained during Lockdown, when the government supported the vast majority of the population, to stay at home, stay safe and still be paid 80% of their salaries. The increases in gas/electric and fuel prices have helped recoup some revenue but the coffers are still pretty empty.
In the private sector, employers are faced with harsh decisions. Defer wage increases and keep jobs or cut jobs and find a bit extra for those who are left. We all have sympathy with key workers but there now seems to be an element of everyone jumping on the bandwagon and demanding more. It feels like the country is now being held to ransom.
These are tough times for everybody. Hundreds of businesses are closing daily and it will get worse before it gets better.

Maybe they should try recouping some of the money given in those dodgy PPE deals back? Just a thought.

 

[B-right-on]

Typically the definition of Capitalism is:
"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state."

The alternative to this isn't limited to Communism or dictatorships. We have put our utilities, transport infrastructure, some of our healthcare, our social housing and social service provisions into the hands of private companies and foreign investors.

Do you honestly feel that the rail companies, water companies, energy companies all run privately is the only choice and the best choice, really?

But having infrastructure owned and controlled by the Govt is still capitalism. I totally agree with you tho, essential infrastructure services such as energy, water, rail and the NHS should be state owned and not a cash cow for greedy executives/ owners.

But that's not what the poster I quoted said. He said we should get rid of capitalism.

 

[Lenny Rider]

If we have one, which looks likely, and then the subsequent GE which Starmer wins 1997 style, in the current global situation what will Labour do any differently?

To a much lesser scale we've had it Worthing, Labour swept to power in May for the first time ever, all very well meaning, they were going to do this, going to do that, get into office and realise there's still only XYZ in the budget and the issues are still the same.

 

[rippleman]

I'm sorry, I'm a believer if you want to work then work. If you don't like the way the company you work for handles themselves, then piss off and get another job.
I don't know if you realise this, but you don't have to stay with that company if you don't want to
All strike action achieves is allowing unions to bully people into thinking that they don't have a choice...
I've crossed it out, as it'll probably upset too many sheeple, er, I mean people....did I mention I don't like unions? I miss Maggie

And when the last nurse leaves the NHS...... You haven't thought this through have you?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

My youngest is due to fly into Heathrow at 5am on the 23rd from Cape Town. Really hoping they get back OK as the missus is already panicking about not having him home for Christmas.

At the moment there is no plan to cancel flights, just might be a delay/getting bags sorted on arrival.

 

[rippleman]

All these people demanding pay rises must understand that their increases will mean cuts elsewhere. There isn't a bottomless pit of money. Reserves were drained during Lockdown, when the government supported the vast majority of the population, to stay at home, stay safe and still be paid 80% of their salaries. The increases in gas/electric and fuel prices have helped recoup some revenue but the coffers are still pretty empty.
In the private sector, employers are faced with harsh decisions. Defer wage increases and keep jobs or cut jobs and find a bit extra for those who are left. We all have sympathy with key workers but there now seems to be an element of everyone jumping on the bandwagon and demanding more. It feels like the country is now being held to ransom.
These are tough times for everybody. Hundreds of businesses are closing daily and it will get worse before it gets better.

And let's not forget the BILLIONS wasted on dodgy PPE contracts, PPE burned as not fit for purpose, total lack of controls to prevent fraud on the furlough scheme, the SEISS scheme where the self-employed didn't have to lose a single days work to be entitled to a handout etc etc

Without the corruption and incompetence of this Tory government, the public finances would be in a far better position that they are today.