[Football] Disparity in earnings

[Dr. No]

Do you think this will be a watershed in addressing the disparity between top level football and nurses?

This is a job for [MENTION=34942]Dr. No[/MENTION]

No.

 

[Live by the sea]

I don't think you can really compare nurses and football players, they're from completely different industries, funded from completely different sources, and there's no connection between the two - reducing a football player's wage wouldn't have any effect on a nurse's wage.

The disparity between consultant doctors and nurses, however, definitely needs to be looked at. And yes, hopefully all of this will help in that matter.

The difference between a nurse and a consultant in medical training is massive about the same difference between a Sunday league footballer and a PL player . Please don’t try to compare the two . 7 years training and all the medical exams to pass. Nurses do a fantastic job but can not in any way be considered remotely comparable to a consultant. That’s just very silly . But yes I totally agree nurses should be paid more as should lots of other people , ambulance people , firemen , police etc

 

[dejavuatbtn]

The difference between a nurse and a consultant in medical training is massive about the same difference between a Sunday league footballer and a PL player . Please don’t try to compare the two . 7 years training and all the medical exams to pass. Nurses do a fantastic job but can not in any way be considered remotely comparable to a consultant. That’s just very silly . But yes I totally agree nurses should be paid more as should lots of other people , ambulance people , firemen , police etc

Having said that, it takes a minimum of two years to be a registered nurse and up to four years if they go on to do a degree and post education. Not an inconsiderable amount of qualifying time, working hours, stress opposed to a lot of other occupations that pay significantly more. Add the degree of responsibility to all members of the public and the disparity between them and consultants narrows. Consultants at the top end earn most of their money doing private work for those who can afford private healthcare.
At the moment I do miss watching a live game on tv but may be a lot of people will find this current situation sobering and find other, perhaps more meaningful, things to do with their time.
It also shows up just how reliant this country Is on unpaid volunteers. It does seem that we are prepared to short change a lot of people in the good times and go round with the begging bowl when the s**t hits the fan.
Unfortunately when it is all over nothing will change.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I disagree. It is far harder to be a medical professional than a footballer! The fact the ly get paid less is shamefully really and really makes you mad that people will sycophantically clap them when they need them but do not give a shit enough to pay them properly otherwise.

I agree that the disparity in reward for different 'jobs' is notable and, as others have said, not connected with importance, training required or natural ability.

However we live in a capitalist world where worth is determined by the market. Shame doesn't come into it.

OK, we have small sections of society that are rooted in communism: the NHS, state education, military and police (albeit the latter two were created by the wealthy to protect the wealthy and are now, perhaps ironically, funded by the state purse rather than the estates of the wealthy). These small sections of society rooted in communism are operating in a capitalist world, which is why and how the supply of money to health and education is not sufficient to pay all staff what they and others may feel they deserve.

To change this, the public needs to vote for two things: an increase in taxation, and a redistribution of public money away from something so it can be directed towards something else. The obvious thing to direct money away from is the military, but apart from 'national security' implications, it would also result in redundancy of military staff and support staff so it may be an example of cutting off the nose to spite the face. Or we could create the world's firs fair communist state - and that isn't going to happen either.

If this inequality were easy to solve it would have been solved. My gut feeling is that members of the nation (and other nations) like too much about our 'system' to be sufficiently motivated to press for change; countless working class people would rather vote for tax cutting conservatives than 'lefty' labour. We get the politicians and politics we choose (and deserve). Maybe COVID will change this, but don't get your hopes up.

Finally, as a point of order, it may be hard to be a doctor, yet there are plenty of doctors who dream that they had the talent to be a professional footballer. I doubt there are many footballers whose boot is on the other foot.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Anyone ever watch Wanted Down Under? It's a show where a UK family sample a week in Oz/NZ with a view to maybe making a move there. They compare different aspects between here and there. House prices, lifestyle, food budget etc. One of the things they compare is wages. Quite often they feature highly trained NHS workers like ICU nurses, radiographers etc. Invariably those NHS workers are gobsmacked to discover that their basic wages Down Under would be, like for like, at least double what they are in the UK, and often far higher than that. Basically their renumeration would reflect their huge value to the community they serve. And rightly so

 

[Seagull27]

The difference between a nurse and a consultant in medical training is massive about the same difference between a Sunday league footballer and a PL player . Please don’t try to compare the two . 7 years training and all the medical exams to pass. Nurses do a fantastic job but can not in any way be considered remotely comparable to a consultant. That’s just very silly . But yes I totally agree nurses should be paid more as should lots of other people , ambulance people , firemen , police etc

I know, and I'm not saying they should be paid the same. I didn't say anywhere they should be on a comparable salary. But the level of disparity between them is ridiculous, do you think that nurses deserve 5-10% of the salary a consultant does?

Nurses have far more contact time with patients, generally work longer hours, and usually care about the patients far more than consultants (yes I know that's a big generalisation, but having worked in the healthcare industry for a number of years, from my experience consultants are more worried about how much money they're making)

And to say nurses have a comparable level of skill to Sunday league footballers is silly, you have to have a degree to be a nurse.

 

[El Presidente]

Footballers are an easy target, and the newspapers, owned in the main by billionaires, continue to peddle the comparison of players to nurses etc.

Footballers didn't cause the 2007 global recession, that was due to financiers, ratings agencies, and a pass the parcel mentality in relation to toxic debt that went through on a nod and a wink from all those connected.

Footballers didn't cause Covid-19 either, so why their wages, as opposed to those of bankers, lawyers, asset fund managers, accountants and others who provide far less entertainment and enjoyment in the world is beyond me.

 

[jamie (not that one)]

Those at the top of any industry are always big earners and the NHS is no exception.

The day when millions of people will be willing to pay to watch nurses work will be the day they can command the same as footballers, film stars, musicians etc. Is it fair and just in an ideal world? Nope, but we don't like in an ideal world.

 

[Live by the sea]

I know, and I'm not saying they should be paid the same. I didn't say anywhere they should be on a comparable salary. But the level of disparity between them is ridiculous, do you think that nurses deserve 5-10% of the salary a consultant does?

Nurses have far more contact time with patients, generally work longer hours, and usually care about the patients far more than consultants (yes I know that's a big generalisation, but having worked in the healthcare industry for a number of years, from my experience consultants are more worried about how much money they're making)

And to say nurses have a comparable level of skill to Sunday league footballers is silly, you have to have a degree to be a nurse.

Ok I understand what you’re saying . For the record I didn’t mean that nurses gave the same skill level as a Sunday league player I said the difference between a SL player & a PL player is similar to a nurse & consultant skill set wise .

 

[Lincoln Imp]

We can wring our hands all we want but top level football is international and top level footballers' pay can only be controlled internationally. The same is true in any trade where employees are recruited across borders. (One of the reasons why I support the principle of international federations but that's not for this thread.)

But suppose we ignored those realities and decided we wanted to live in a command economy where the rules of supply and demand no longer applied, issuing an edict that footballers in England could be paid no more than, say, doctors. The instant effect would be that top level professional football in this country would be decimated. To all intents and purposes it would cease to exist. The money currently paid to English footballers would not be circulated to British health workers. It wouldn't even enter the country.

Trying to compare the values of different professions always reminds me of the old saw about a conversation between a mechanic and a surgeon. Mechanic: "150 grand a year? You're overpaid. I can strip an motor down to nothing, polish the ports, replace the valves, grind the pistons and reassemble the whole thing in a day. And I earn a fraction of what you do."

"M'mmm", says the surgeon. "Fair point but I suppose the difference, if you think about it, is that I have to do all those things without turning off the motor."

 

[dejavuatbtn]

Ok I understand what you’re saying . For the record I didn’t mean that nurses gave the same skill level as a Sunday league player I said the difference between a SL player & a PL player is similar to a nurse & consultant skill set wise .

Regret to disagree but you’re wrong. A nurse can save a life in an emergency situation and sufficient expertise to perform some emergency surgery if called upon. A Sunday league player would not sensibly play in a PL team, even in an emergency.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Just 3 years ago Tories cheering blocking a pay rise to nurses, firefighters and police...

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Can't see society going back to worshipping footballers like GODS anytime soon. Especially with vvankstains like Grealish in the frame. Best thing to come out of all this is that communities and countries will realise who the true heroes are

 

[dazzer6666]

Having said that, it takes a minimum of two years to be a registered nurse and up to four years if they go on to do a degree and post education. Not an inconsiderable amount of qualifying time, working hours, stress opposed to a lot of other occupations that pay significantly more. Add the degree of responsibility to all members of the public and the disparity between them and consultants narrows. Consultants at the top end earn most of their money doing private work for those who can afford private healthcare.
At the moment I do miss watching a live game on tv but may be a lot of people will find this current situation sobering and find other, perhaps more meaningful, things to do with their time.
It also shows up just how reliant this country Is on unpaid volunteers. It does seem that we are prepared to short change a lot of people in the good times and go round with the begging bowl when the s**t hits the fan.
Unfortunately when it is all over nothing will change.

I don't think you can enter nursing (as an RN anyway) without a degree nowadays. It's almost impossible to compare a PL footballer with a nurse (or anything similar) but I'd argue it's much, much harder to become a PL footballer - a tiny % of those that aspire to it actually make it, and the numbers of nurses (alone) are vastly more than the number of professional footballers. That doesn't mean being a footballer is a harder job though..............I wouldn't want to be managing a ward of Covid +ve high-dependency elderly patients with 2 years nursing experience for 24k a year................

 

[blue-shifted]

Can't see society going back to worshipping footballers like GODS anytime soon. Especially with vvankstains like Grealish in the frame. Best thing to come out of all this is that communities and countries will realise who the true heroes are

As soon as this is over, things will revert to being become remarkably normal, remarkably quickly.

 

[Simster]

If wages are driven by market forces why are nhs worked not paid millions? Without them the economy would collapse and would cost unimaginable sums of money.

Because there are an awful lot of people able and willing to do those jobs - not just British but other foreign nationals. (The Philippines trains more nurses than it can afford to pay domestically for precisely this reason - as an export earner)

Nobody doubts these people work hard for their money and that they are underpaid, but that isn't what drives wages. Wages have never been about fairness - how hard you work or your importance to the economy, and that is why it is important to have a fair taxation system. When people read in our shit right wing press about politicians taxing "hard working families", they really should think about this, because hard work is only a minor reason why you might earn more money and therefore be taxed more.

 

[Weststander]

This and this.

Hopefully when we come out of this on the other side people will be more happy to have a few pence on income tax to keep themselves alive and educated. We can debate whether a post virus Johnson government would do it but it would be a vote winner for me.

No nurse goes into the profession for the money but it would be good if we as society could reward them a little more anyway.

Taxes will have to rise anyway to service this hugely enlarged national debt, I hope and believe that the national conversation will be to improve the pay of the lower paid elements of the NHS. Even as a centre-right (non Corbynista), I suggested on NSC last autumn that we should raise income tax a few percent for that purpose alone and to improve facilities (not to end up in the pockets of NHS middle and upper management, and management consultants).

 

[Simster]

But someone said wages are determined by profits. Without the NHS there ARE no profits, everything collapses. That is what I meant. Wages being related to profits is bullshit too.

But wages aren't determined by profits are they? Profit is just one factor that drives wages.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

But someone said wages are determined by profits. Without the NHS there ARE no profits, everything collapses. That is what I meant. Wages being related to profits is bullshit too.

So out of interest, what should wages be related to ?

 

[Weststander]

Can't see society going back to worshipping footballers like GODS anytime soon. Especially with vvankstains like Grealish in the frame. Best thing to come out of all this is that communities and countries will realise who the true heroes are

Radio 5 kept talking today about Rashford’s recovery from a back injury. At this time, who gives a **** other than a few Manure fans?

Indicative, even now, of the relentless drip, drip, drop of PL and players hype.

As much as I love football per se, am I alone in enjoying this break from the football background noise and media narratives?