Disabled seating?

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Feb 24, 2011
2,843
Upper Bevendean
Do any of you who have had their presentations, have any idea where the seating/area is for disabled supporters? I have tried to suss it from maps of the seating plan, but to no avail.
 






murraymint

New member
Aug 13, 2008
73
If you look at the virtual stadium viewer, the disabled seat zones are or appear to be in the corners, either side of the south stand.
 




Since the view from the centre of either the West Stand or the East Stand seems generally to have attracted the most interest, it seems a great shame that disabled supporters can only buy into that if they pay the premium price for 1901 Club seats. Or am I misreading things?

And what about disabled supporters who want to attend games as part of a large group of friends or family? Does a segregated area in the corner allow this to happen?
 




drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,641
Burgess Hill
Since the view from the centre of either the West Stand or the East Stand seems generally to have attracted the most interest, it seems a great shame that disabled supporters can only buy into that if they pay the premium price for 1901 Club seats. Or am I misreading things?

And what about disabled supporters who want to attend games as part of a large group of friends or family? Does a segregated area in the corner allow this to happen?

Not quite sure what you are suggesting. Surely if disabled fans want the premium view and there are facilities for wheelchair access then some of them may be able to pay for that. I don't think the intention is that disabled (and generally by that I think we are referring to those that require a wheel chair) fans can sit anywhere in the 1901 seats (althought I'm not convinced that is what your are saying. Also, the facilities at Falmer will be vastly better than those at Withdean where they are stuck at pitch level in a corner. It's not ideal but it is an improvement, even for the away disabled fans who will be near their own supporters.

Remember the days of the Goldstone where the only facilities seem to consist of one blue invalid carriage being driven almost down to pitch level in the South West corner.
 


Not quite sure what you are suggesting. Surely if disabled fans want the premium view and there are facilities for wheelchair access then some of them may be able to pay for that.
I'm suggesting that, since an elevated centre line view is available to regular season ticket holders, it should also be available to wheelchair users paying the same price.

The original planning application promised facilities for disabled supporters in the West Stand, alongside hospitality facilities. What we now have seems to be facilities for disabled supporters in the premium hospitality area, but not elsewhere in the West Stand. It's not clear why the change has been made.
 


clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,885
Not quite sure what you are suggesting. Surely if disabled fans want the premium view and there are facilities for wheelchair access then some of them may be able to pay for that. I don't think the intention is that disabled (and generally by that I think we are referring to those that require a wheel chair) fans can sit anywhere in the 1901 seats (althought I'm not convinced that is what your are saying. Also, the facilities at Falmer will be vastly better than those at Withdean where they are stuck at pitch level in a corner. It's not ideal but it is an improvement, even for the away disabled fans who will be near their own supporters.

Remember the days of the Goldstone where the only facilities seem to consist of one blue invalid carriage being driven almost down to pitch level in the South West corner.

Anything would be a vast improvement than now, but I think a lot of us thought that the days of wholly segregated areas would be gone at the new stadium.

I envisaged a strip that rang along the main stand that could accommodate wheelchairs. If the central areas were premium, so be it.

If it had to be towards the bottom, to make it level with the concourse behind - fine too. If they want (or need) to watch from the corner, also fine.

Creating a single "disabled area" in the corner is not (in my opinion) state of the art. Accommodating disabled supporters in all areas of the stadium, very much is so - even if logistically certain areas are impractical and certain types of disability dictate that watching from a corner is preferable.

It's the segregation and lack of choice I have a problem with. The first hopefully somewhat alleviated when/if the corners are filled in.
 
Last edited:




drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,641
Burgess Hill
I'm suggesting that, since an elevated centre line view is available to regular season ticket holders, it should also be available to wheelchair users paying the same price.

But that isn't the real world. There is limited elevated centre line views available even for able bodied fans.
 


The reason given for getting rid of the discount for disabled supporters (including wheelchair users) is that they have the same facilities available to them as other fans. They don't.

There may be a "limited number" of side on views available to able bodied fans. But that limit is several thousand.
 


What the Emirates Stadium offers:-

"Facilities for disabled supporters at the new Emirates Stadium include places for up to 241 wheelchair users on platforms located throughout the ground. There are also a further 98 places available for both visually impaired and ambulant disabled supporters again situated in a variety of positions around the ground.

"While the majority of places will be taken up by season ticket holders, a number will be kept for home match ticket holders and away supporters".

Disabled Supporters Information Page | Tickets | Membership | Arsenal.com
 






http://www.nads.org.uk/downloads/3e4f51184615434f317f8592de70db93.pdf

An extract from:-

Accessible Stadia

A good practice guide to the design of facilities to meet the needs of
disabled spectators and other users.


Published by The National Association of Disabled Supporters (NADS),
with the support of:- the Football Stadia Improvement Fund (FSIF),
the Football Foundation, and the Football Licensing Authority (FLA).


Location of Viewing Areas

2.14 BS 8300 para 11.3.1 highlights the preference for providing wheelchair
users with “a range of vantage points”. It is therefore recommended that
areas for disabled spectators should, where possible, be dispersed
throughout the stadium to provide a variety of locations at different
levels and for various prices.

When siting viewing areas, it is recommended that:

* Clubs will need to demonstrate through an access audit a strategy
for the provision of adequately dispersed viewing areas and support
accommodation.

* Viewing areas should be accessible to and used independently by
spectators with disabilities with the minimum of assistance.

* Designated viewing areas should be provided for both home and
away spectators.

* Management should make available clear advice on the location of
disabled facilities and wheelchair spaces to away spectators who
may be visiting the stadium for the first time.

* Spectators who use wheelchairs should not be located in areas that
may make them feel isolated from spectators in the main body of
the stand.


* Access should be available to different areas of a seating deck for
ambulant disabled.

* Designated viewing areas should be included in any ‘family’ areas
within a stadium.
 


drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,641
Burgess Hill
How many disabled spaces are there at Falmer? Isn't it about 200? That's 60% of what they have at Arsenal in a staium that only holds one third of the emirates capacity. It would be fantastic if everyone had equal facilities but that comes at a cost.
 






Shanker45

New member
Jan 19, 2010
345
East Preston,West Sussex
The situation for wheelchair supporters at the Amex isn't as we were all originally expecting as the only non-premium elevated positions are in the corners of the ground currently segregated from the rest of the supporters. They are also located very close to the away fans which isn't that ideal. There are pitch side places along the West stand which is where they are suggesting those who want to sit in groups etc.. go for. Not ideal as open to the elements and not a lot better than what's on offer at Withdean. Martin Perry has committed in writing that when the second tier is added to the East stand there will be elevated seating for wheelchair fans at no extra premium and also fans will be intergrated once the corners are filled in.The question is how long will that be before it happens. It's not quite the Falmer for all we were expecting and there is also questions outstanding over the parking situation.
 


Giraffe

VERY part time moderator
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Aug 8, 2005
27,246
The original planning application promised facilities for disabled supporters in the West Stand, alongside hospitality facilities. What we now have seems to be facilities for disabled supporters in the premium hospitality area, but not elsewhere in the West Stand. It's not clear why the change has been made.

I would say given that the club originally intended to sell just 400 1901Club seats but have actually sold nearly 2,000 is closer to the real answer. In short there would have been disabled seats available in the middle tier at season ticket prices if it wasn't for this, I suspect.
 


Twinkle Toes

Growing old disgracefully
Apr 4, 2008
11,138
Hoveside
I would say given that the club originally intended to sell just 400 1901Club seats but have actually sold nearly 2,000 is closer to the real answer. In short there would have been disabled seats available in the middle tier at season ticket prices if it wasn't for this, I suspect.

Interesting (albeit unsurprising) info there Mr G. In my mind, it makes a mockery of the notion that the club couldn't afford to make disabled supporter access (almost) fully inclusive - given the extra revenue from the increased premium seat sales. Frankly I think the club need to sort this: & pronto. To stick non-ambulant Albion fans in a corner (or corners) between the home & away support really is a disgrace in this day & age. So much for the 'Community' part in the name of our new stadium. :nono:
 




saslowi

New member
Feb 2, 2009
254
Martin Perry's responce when this question was raised in January.


Thank you for your e-mail. I am now in a position to respond and have looked at this carefully. To answer you fully I am afraid I have to go into a considerable amount of detail so I apologise at the outset for the length of this response.

Firstly it is important for you to understand that throughout the development of the design, facilities for our disabled supporters have been at the forefront of our considerations. In particular we have consulted with disability groups from football including the Brighton Official Disabled Supporters Group (BODS) and the National Association of Disabled Supporters (NADS). We have also consulted with other supporters and the wider community, and throughout, all interested parties have been kept fully aware of our proposals. The decisions we have taken about the provision of facilities for the disabled – not just wheelchair users – have been taken following their advice and guidance. It was our understanding that they were very happy with everything we are intending to provide and we have not received any comments from them to the contrary. In addition to all of this, of course, we have followed the relevant design guides and regulations relating to disability access.

One of the challenges of the site is the substantial difference in level between the station platform and the coach park which is a level difference of 20 metres. The maintenance of full accessibility around the external concourse and the ability for people to move around the stadium and up to the bus and coach park was therefore a significant factor in the development of the design of the stadium.

The solution to this problem was to construct the external concourse to a gentle gradient around the external perimeter of the stadium which means that by the time it has reached the back of the west stand, closest to the University it is a full storey above pitch level. The impact of this internally is that each of the four concourses under each of the stands is at a different level. For example, the lower concourse in the West Stand is 4 metres above the concourse in the North Stand.

This change in level has a major influence internally on the location of wheelchair seating because one of the design factors we have to take into account when considering the location of these areas is the need to achieve level access from the external concourse. At the same time we also have to ensure we have safe egress facilities in the case of evacuation and provide accessibility to disabled toilets, catering kiosks and achieve the very best sight lines possible incorporating the use of “super risers” where necessary. In case you don’t know “super risers” mean that the wheelchair position is sufficiently high enough so that if supporters in the row in front stand up at a time of excitement the wheelchair user can still see over the top.

We are also very conscious that supporters like to watch their football from different locations and for this reason we have deliberately provided a range of locations for wheelchair users to cater for all preferences.

When we open, the stadium will not be complete however it is our intention to provide at this stage:

• 56 wheelchair and 56 helper positions at pitch level in front of the north, west and east stands.

These were provided because we are aware that a number of wheelchair users prefer pitch side viewing. We note that more than half of the wheelchair users that have already booked their seats have chosen these locations. In addition to this, prior to putting the season tickets on sale, we deliberately reserved the seats in the rows immediately behind these wheelchair areas so that families and friends of wheelchair users could all sit together.

• 39 wheelchair and 39 helper positions at high level in the south east and south west corners.

We placed seating in the corners because we were advised by NADS, that high corner positions were the best for those in wheelchairs who had limited mobility of the neck. We would dispute that this is the worst area for viewing. The view from these seats is very elevated and excellent.

We have located this seating in the South East and South West corners because we can achieve level or gently sloping access from the external concourse to each of these spaces (See the point about the external concourse and site levels above). Also importantly they have level or gently sloping access into the main concourses.

You should also be aware that the seats in the corners are on super risers so that when the general seating in the corners is added, wheelchair users will still be able to see over the row in front as explained above. I checked the view again today and it is superb.

• 11 wheelchair and 11 helper positions at first floor hospitality level (Lower Platinum 1901 Club)

• 22 wheelchair and 22 helper positions second floor hospitality level (Upper Platinum and Gold 1901 Club)

• 17 wheelchair and 17 helper positions for away supporters at high level in the south stand

This means that more than half of the wheelchair positions for home fans are at high level.

It seems to me reading your e-mail and the other comments that we have received that there are four main concerns:

1) Pitch side wheelchair positions.
2) Integration with other home areas and in particular why the seats in the corners are between the West home stand and the South away stand
3) Disabled car parking and travel arrangements – there is quite a bit of misinformation about this so I will try to correct it below.
4) Concessions for Disabled Supporters

Let me deal with each of these individual concerns below:

1) Pitch side wheelchair positions

I hope I have answered this adequately above however, I will repeat that more than half of the people who have already booked their wheelchair seating positions have gone for pitch side seating.. There have been no complaints or comments to our sales staff from supporters who have been in to purchase their tickets. In simple terms some people like to be pitch side and we have made provision for them.

However we also have high level seating for others who prefer to be in an elevated position. I will deal with the point about location and which corner under “integration” below.

2) Integration with other home areas and in particular why the seats in the corners are between the West home stand and the South away stand

Integrating disabled supporters, whatever their disability into a mass attendance public facility is a very complex and difficult task. I have already explained above the design criteria that we have to meet but also remember here that we have to make provision for both wheelchair and ambulant disabled people. Wherever we can we have integrated the wheelchair seating.

The pitch side locations are in integrated positions as there is seating immediately behind the wheelchair viewing platform and as noted above we have held these seats for purchase by friends and family of wheelchair users.

The 1901 seats are in integrated positions in that they are located at the rear of the 1901 Club seating decks.

We accept however that initially the corner wheelchair viewing positions are not in fully integrated positions, but as soon as the corners of the stadium bowl are completed, they will be immediately behind the general access seating on a super riser. They are integrated however to the extent that all the wheelchair viewing platforms have access into the main concourses along with all other fans. The concourse catering kiosks have low level counter areas for people in wheelchairs and all concourses have readily accessible disabled toilets.

However, as you know the stadium is future-proofed so that we can increase capacity. Part of this future development includes the provision of high level wheelchair positions in the North West corner. These positions are on super risers and have access to the West stand main concourse with its kiosks and disabled toilets. It is not possible to put these positions in place before the seating decks in that corner has been constructed because it all relies on the same structure.

In addition when we construct the upper tier in the East Stand we will include two new elevated wheelchair decks at the North and South Ends of the East Stand served by lifts, kiosks and toilet facilities. These positions are alongside the pitch.

3) Disabled car parking and travel arrangements.

I have received a letter from one supporter suggesting there are only 12 disabled spaces being provided – I have no idea where that came from!.

The key facts are these:

• There are over 120 disabled parking spaces being created in the new car park being constructed between the railway and the A27 (known as Park Wall Farm) and in the University of Sussex. The priority on who uses these will be decided in consultation with BODS.
• Access to the Park Wall Farm car park is via the main external concourse where we anticipate there will be heavy pedestrian traffic. No vehicles will be allowed on the concourse from 1½ hours before the game for safety reasons. Similarly, there will also be a delay after the game until it is safe to use the concourse, this is unlikely to be any more than 30 – 45 minutes and is unavoidable.
• We have already agreed to talk to BODS about the provision of shuttles from the Park and Rides for disabled supporters and to continue and extend the home collection service that is currently arranged for some wheelchair users. It should also be borne in mind that most of Brighton & Hove Bus Company vehicles now have disabled access and it is their buses that will be used for the park and ride sites.
• There will be an area for disabled drop off in the coach park at the stadium.
• If you wish to travel by rail, our new footbridge makes Falmer station fully accessible for wheelchair users.

There are therefore a variety of transport options available for people in wheelchairs.

4) Concessions for Disabled Supporters

The decision to withdraw special concessions for disabled supporters was a Board Policy implemented following consultation with NADS and along with many other clubs, on the basis that all supporters should be treated equally and charged the same amount in individual areas.

The pricing policy therefore for wheelchair positions is that the prices are exactly the same as the area to which they relate, although as before, a disabled persons personal assistant is admitted free of charge.

This is only fair and applies to wheelchair users as well as ambulant disabled and equalises the position for all supporters. We did have a number of concessions at Withdean because the viewing positions were so poor including the wheelchair positions under the control box. At the Amex stadium this no longer applies. We are convinced that the viewing positions from all wheelchair positions are equally as good as anywhere in the stadium and therefore the pricing policy reflects this.

In summary therefore:

• We have continuously consulted with all the relevant representative groups for disabled supporters and have taken their advice when specifying the disabled provision at our new stadium and have followed the appropriate design codes and guidance.

• We have recognized that supporters like to watch and enjoy their football from a variety of locations and we have provided wheelchair positions to suit these different requirements.

• We are also very aware that we need to make provision for all disabilities. To this end we have designed the stadium so that there is level access to all the concourses in the lower tiers of every stand. There are very few steps leading into the seating tiers themselves. We are ensuring that large areas of the seating bowl, the concourses and the hospitality areas are covered by induction loops for those who have hearing difficulties and in partnership with the Royal National Institute for the Blind (RNIB) we are continuing with the “Soccer Sight” commentaries which are specialist radio commentaries transmitted to supporters in the ground who are visually impaired.

I hope that you will now see that we have tried exceptionally hard to ensure that the design, and the operation of the stadium will makes every one of our fans feel welcome and valued and that the excitement about our fabulous new home will be shared by everybody.

Thank you for writing to me, allowing me to explain and give you the facts before jumping to conclusions. I hope I have alleviated your concerns however you will see that this is an immensely complex subject with a huge number of factors which we have to take into account when establishing the design.

If you still have some queries I would suggest that rather than go back and forth in endless e-mails it would be much better if we could meet you to go through any outstanding issues.

Kind regards

Martin Perry
 


k2bluesky

New member
Sep 22, 2008
803
Brighton
There are some concrete 'boxed' areas at the front of the north stand, maybe these are for wheelchairs, can't think what else, anyone know?
 


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