Lindfield by the Pond
Well-known member
I also called on Monday, to check I was still on their list, which I was informed I was, however I still havn't seen the application form. Where did you hear that the form had to be back by Friday?
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Disabled Parking
- Thread starter timbha
- Start date
I also called on Monday, to check I was still on their list, which I was informed I was, however I still havn't seen the application form. Where did you hear that the form had to be back by Friday?
libra-gully
Member
- Jan 26, 2011
- 284
As a vocal disabled person, who simply asks for some common courtesy, I must confess to have been rather miffed right from the start.
Back in September I was invited to a 1901 launch, and when I enquired about disability issues, quite frankly I was given a lot of BS/flannel call it what you like. Like most disabled people with a 'potential' limited income being unable to afford the sums quoted, I ended up passing on the clubs offer and instead went to a later launch for the rest of us "supporters".
Suddenly, at this junction as a wheelchair user I was only given 3 options; the touchline, the corners or 1901. At the time it was very poorly explained, particularly about the corners. None the less, wanting to take my children like any father would, I was then given only one option, I had to declare myself ambulant and go into the family stand.
This decision has basically condemned me to missing at least a third of the games judging by previous seasons, when I have been too ill simply to struggle with crutches. I don't like this one bit, but there is apparently no way they could accommodate two children in the disabled area!?! If I insisted on using the chair and going into the disabled corner, I was told that my two under 10s could sit in another part of the ground nearby....alone!!!
Accepting this situation as a bad lot, the other day I purposely went to the ground on my crutches to judge the experience. Oh Christ! I know there are going to be teething problems, but a very helpful steward sent me through a vague looking grey door straight through to ..... two flights of steps. By the time I had clambered to where I needed to go, even Perkino would have felt sorry for me...or maybe not!
From there, I found the whole process extremely tiring. When you are 'restricted' suddenly the concourses become like motorways, long and very busy.
Like many others I have been stressing over the available car spaces that are very quickly being signed up by 1901 and the like. I have made repeated requests to try to just find out what is going on. Today, the helpful chap Ben, in CS has confirmed to me that anyone with an interest is to make themselves known (why they can't tell from their records I don't know) and then a form will be sent out. When they know how many are required they are going to allocate them out (on what basis I don't know) but I got the feeling they are expecting more applicants than the 46 spaces, and so they are 'looking into' how to look after the rest.
All this with just a couple of weeks to go. As a previous poster mentioned, people in our position have to plan ahead for everything. (Yes I do mean everything Perkino) to the point that things become a military operation. It is just a shame that the club has not been so diligent as we have to be.
Back in September I was invited to a 1901 launch, and when I enquired about disability issues, quite frankly I was given a lot of BS/flannel call it what you like. Like most disabled people with a 'potential' limited income being unable to afford the sums quoted, I ended up passing on the clubs offer and instead went to a later launch for the rest of us "supporters".
Suddenly, at this junction as a wheelchair user I was only given 3 options; the touchline, the corners or 1901. At the time it was very poorly explained, particularly about the corners. None the less, wanting to take my children like any father would, I was then given only one option, I had to declare myself ambulant and go into the family stand.
This decision has basically condemned me to missing at least a third of the games judging by previous seasons, when I have been too ill simply to struggle with crutches. I don't like this one bit, but there is apparently no way they could accommodate two children in the disabled area!?! If I insisted on using the chair and going into the disabled corner, I was told that my two under 10s could sit in another part of the ground nearby....alone!!!
Accepting this situation as a bad lot, the other day I purposely went to the ground on my crutches to judge the experience. Oh Christ! I know there are going to be teething problems, but a very helpful steward sent me through a vague looking grey door straight through to ..... two flights of steps. By the time I had clambered to where I needed to go, even Perkino would have felt sorry for me...or maybe not!
From there, I found the whole process extremely tiring. When you are 'restricted' suddenly the concourses become like motorways, long and very busy.
Like many others I have been stressing over the available car spaces that are very quickly being signed up by 1901 and the like. I have made repeated requests to try to just find out what is going on. Today, the helpful chap Ben, in CS has confirmed to me that anyone with an interest is to make themselves known (why they can't tell from their records I don't know) and then a form will be sent out. When they know how many are required they are going to allocate them out (on what basis I don't know) but I got the feeling they are expecting more applicants than the 46 spaces, and so they are 'looking into' how to look after the rest.
All this with just a couple of weeks to go. As a previous poster mentioned, people in our position have to plan ahead for everything. (Yes I do mean everything Perkino) to the point that things become a military operation. It is just a shame that the club has not been so diligent as we have to be.
The club are charging £180 per space close to the stadium. The club asked BODS to advise on how to allocate these spaces. We asked the club to send out a survey to get a feel of exactly how high the demand will be. It was vast. We have been told now that essentially there will only be 36 spaces as 4 will be kept for away fans & 6 are needed for a shortfall in the 1901 club.
No it isnt fair to charge as it means that priority will be given on ability to pay
Yes. On April 29th we were told via email disabled parking would be free of charge. We have asked that if they do go ahead with charging that the payment should be in installments & not a one off payment. But we still maintain it should be free.
We have been told that that they are hoping to secure parking within half a mile of the stadium & they will run a buggy system
I would think that they would have to offer refunds
Again Bods have suggested a buggy system
BODs have suggested this service & have offered to buy a couple of chairs for this purpose
There will be places to leave wheelchairs.
There are drop off points but will be subject to the 90 minutes before & after. We have asked that both park & ride buses & trains are stewarded to make sure the wheelchair areas on both are used by wheelchair users . In fact some clubs such as Charlton have seperate queing & make sure disabled people are helped.
As I said earlier 4 spaces are being given to away fans but this is being taken off the 46.
Taking off my BODs hat, am I happy? not at all. Will I still go? of course. Although due to the lack of parking I will probably miss games when the weather is bad due to my health problems. With my BODS hat back on, we will continue to liase (badger) with the club about all issues. We have spoken to so many disabled supporters & really tried hard to relay everything to Martin Perry, Ken Brown etc. If I can answer any more questions I will.
Lord Bracknell
On fire
There are two separate issues here. The first is about the number of disabled parking spaces that are available and how the Club is allocating them.
The second is the more general question of how the Club is providing access to all of its services and whether it is complying with the law that requires any provider of services to ensure that reasonable access is available to ALL disabled users.
What seems to be happening is that the Club is deciding who amongst its disabled season ticket holders will get a disabled parking space. Once it has done that, it seems to be acting as if the whole issue has been dealt with. It hasn't. What about disabled people (season ticket holders, match-by-match ticket purchasers, away fans) who haven't got an allocated space? What arrangements are being made for them. Using the facilities offered to everyone else is only an acceptable answer if those facilities are themselves fully accessible (for people with a range of disabilities, not just wheelchair users). They clearly aren't.
The Club need to do something about this and make reasonable adjustments to ensure that ALL disabled supporters have a way of getting to games and using the other services that are offered at the stadium. That is the law.
portlock seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 28, 2003
- 18,517
Had a really busy morning and in rush now so only just rejoined this thread and totally comprehend and empathise with this inside. It's not at all surprising though for those close to it.
The most important thing here is the club have put together an ill thought through plan (loose term) from the very begining e.g. before the first brick was laid and then compounded it with a distinct lack of information. What they have put into the public arena conflicts and leaves many open ended questions. All of which begs the question what's the point of having an organisation like BODS / disabled officer at the club if you don't consult and listen to them as the experts? In cynical terms, that's called paying lip-service. And that appears entirely what BHA FC have done here. And it stinks quite frankly. Perry and or Brown ought to hang their heads in shame - it's clear from everyone's feedback that they simply cannot be bothered to sort this issue out and have ducked some awkward but fair questions over the course of the last 6-9 months when it's become abundantly clear that what was promised as Falmer for All is anything but.
clippedgull
Hotdogs, extra onions
I have posted on the Fans Forum thread, but hopefully representatives and or disabled people will be at the forum to grill messrs. brown,perry and bloom especially as the forum is being broadcast on BBC Radio Sussex and the Argus will be in attendance.
I also called on Monday, was told to check my post...still nothing has arrived so I asked to pick up a hard copy at the stadium yesterday (they did not have a 'soft' copy they could send me). It states the return date on either the letter or the application form.
I would have copied the form and emailed it to you but I've now returned it to the club. I still have the letter though. All the form asks is whether you want to pay in 6 monthly installments or in one go, your card details, to supply a copy of the form with the rate of disability care and/or mobility allowance and also whether you would like a space in either of the two areas: the players/VIP car park behind the North Stand or Bennett's Field. I see no reason why you could not supply this on an A4 sheet along with the proof of care/mobility although you will not have the direct debit mandate to complete.
libra-gully
Member
- Jan 26, 2011
- 284
Having been out all afternoon, I have just come back onto NSC to see what others have experienced.
The first thing to say is that I too have been told that the clubs back up plan is to use a buggy system, ala in an airport to transfer those disabled who are not in the magic 46 (or less thank Tinytears). I must confess I laughed when I was told this. I just had this vision of those carts with the flashing yellow lights going back and forth across the shail of the temporary/makeshift carpark like a scene out of Caddy shack! Whilst I commend the creative solution, there should not be a need for one. Especially when I have just read on a later thread that 'the rest of the car spaces go on sale tomorrow'.
Here is an idea for those running the club these days. Just for once, stop trying to cash in and maybe resist from selling more spaces until those with at a least a blue badge have got a space. 'IF' there are any left over, then sell them to STHs who are able bodied.
For what it is worth, here is another idea on the same theme. Instead of fleecing your weakest supporters once again (reference: removal of disabled concession) why not offer these spaces free as long as people car pool. Surely a compromise the club could consider?
As I mentioned earlier, like young tinytears, I too have accepted that similar to previous seasons, I will be missing plenty of games through illness. I really don't want to start selecting my other games on a cost basis.
What I find hard to believe with all this is when I met Uncle Tony at the back end of last season in the South Stand, he came across quite rightly as a really decent guy. How come all this nonsense is being carried out in his name?
Do you think he is aware?
The first thing to say is that I too have been told that the clubs back up plan is to use a buggy system, ala in an airport to transfer those disabled who are not in the magic 46 (or less thank Tinytears). I must confess I laughed when I was told this. I just had this vision of those carts with the flashing yellow lights going back and forth across the shail of the temporary/makeshift carpark like a scene out of Caddy shack! Whilst I commend the creative solution, there should not be a need for one. Especially when I have just read on a later thread that 'the rest of the car spaces go on sale tomorrow'.
Here is an idea for those running the club these days. Just for once, stop trying to cash in and maybe resist from selling more spaces until those with at a least a blue badge have got a space. 'IF' there are any left over, then sell them to STHs who are able bodied.
For what it is worth, here is another idea on the same theme. Instead of fleecing your weakest supporters once again (reference: removal of disabled concession) why not offer these spaces free as long as people car pool. Surely a compromise the club could consider?
As I mentioned earlier, like young tinytears, I too have accepted that similar to previous seasons, I will be missing plenty of games through illness. I really don't want to start selecting my other games on a cost basis.
What I find hard to believe with all this is when I met Uncle Tony at the back end of last season in the South Stand, he came across quite rightly as a really decent guy. How come all this nonsense is being carried out in his name?
Do you think he is aware?
libra-gully
Member
- Jan 26, 2011
- 284
Two more points, sorry.
Why we all need to complete yet another form with our conditions is beside me, as when we applied for STH, all my details were taken and recorded then, including a copy of my DLA mobility allocation. Now I know you all did the same, so why another form?
Having just re-read the "How to get to Falmer" leaflet, or whatever it is entitled, it clearly says that those areas of the University where disabled bays are, (referred to by a previous poster) will be monitored by Stewards preventing access to these areas. What the hell is that about? To my knowledge there are at least a further four or five bays, just up by the roundabout, but the club have confirmed that this will be a no-go area on matchdays.
I was also told that a form is on its way. If it has to be returned by Friday, at best it is going to be very tight if not late. Being cynical, will this mean that if I miss the cut off time I have blown my chance of a space and I'll be one more off the list to worry about?!
Why we all need to complete yet another form with our conditions is beside me, as when we applied for STH, all my details were taken and recorded then, including a copy of my DLA mobility allocation. Now I know you all did the same, so why another form?
Having just re-read the "How to get to Falmer" leaflet, or whatever it is entitled, it clearly says that those areas of the University where disabled bays are, (referred to by a previous poster) will be monitored by Stewards preventing access to these areas. What the hell is that about? To my knowledge there are at least a further four or five bays, just up by the roundabout, but the club have confirmed that this will be a no-go area on matchdays.
I was also told that a form is on its way. If it has to be returned by Friday, at best it is going to be very tight if not late. Being cynical, will this mean that if I miss the cut off time I have blown my chance of a space and I'll be one more off the list to worry about?!
LadySeagull
Well-known member
I think a lot of people are unaware of the facts of the issue but I am surprised the club have missed such an important matter. They leave themselves open to being sued and I HATE saying that about our club.
And for those who mentioned Blue Badges, just a reminder again that they are irrelevant, the Blue Badge scheme does not apply on private land and not everyone who would qualify legally to use a 'disabled bay' on private land would have a Blue Badge anyway. If you had just had a cancer or other longterm condition diagnosis you would be allowed to use a disabled bay provided by ANY retailer or service straight away, you would not have a Blue Badge to show of course but the law would allow it.
It is NOT just about being in a wheelchair, getting the higher rate Mobility Allowance nor whether or not there is a walking problem (not to detract from the needs of those who are in a wheelchair/get Mobility allowance/have a walking problem, of course!).
It's really simple, it's about the legal definition of disability:
Disability and the Equality Act 2010 : Directgov - Disabled people
...and the club MUST BY LAW make their reasonable adjustment of disabled bays accessible to ALL who qualify and who have the need for that adjustment (so for instance, whilst someone with a severe stammer does fit the definition and could take action against discrimination, they could not insist on using a disabled bay!).
The club have to allow qualifying people to use the bays, even if that's hard to identify, even though everyone's condition is different, even though there is no quick fix method of knowing who can use such bays. To deny access to the stadium's 'reasonable adjustments' for occasional visitors, including all disabled away fans, is unlawful.
The Club are in big trouble here and I hope they do something very quickly to sort it out. I think they may have to drop the £180 charge as well, how can that work with ad-hoc visitors when you must treat them the same?
I'm interested to know if BODS advised the Club about the legal definition of disability I have linked, so the club would have known it's NOT about having a carer or mobility allowance? Who on earth sent them off in that direction?
And for those who mentioned Blue Badges, just a reminder again that they are irrelevant, the Blue Badge scheme does not apply on private land and not everyone who would qualify legally to use a 'disabled bay' on private land would have a Blue Badge anyway. If you had just had a cancer or other longterm condition diagnosis you would be allowed to use a disabled bay provided by ANY retailer or service straight away, you would not have a Blue Badge to show of course but the law would allow it.
It is NOT just about being in a wheelchair, getting the higher rate Mobility Allowance nor whether or not there is a walking problem (not to detract from the needs of those who are in a wheelchair/get Mobility allowance/have a walking problem, of course!).
It's really simple, it's about the legal definition of disability:
Disability and the Equality Act 2010 : Directgov - Disabled people
...and the club MUST BY LAW make their reasonable adjustment of disabled bays accessible to ALL who qualify and who have the need for that adjustment (so for instance, whilst someone with a severe stammer does fit the definition and could take action against discrimination, they could not insist on using a disabled bay!).
The club have to allow qualifying people to use the bays, even if that's hard to identify, even though everyone's condition is different, even though there is no quick fix method of knowing who can use such bays. To deny access to the stadium's 'reasonable adjustments' for occasional visitors, including all disabled away fans, is unlawful.
The Club are in big trouble here and I hope they do something very quickly to sort it out. I think they may have to drop the £180 charge as well, how can that work with ad-hoc visitors when you must treat them the same?
I'm interested to know if BODS advised the Club about the legal definition of disability I have linked, so the club would have known it's NOT about having a carer or mobility allowance? Who on earth sent them off in that direction?
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Pete and Sarah
Sarah
We aren't happy about a lot of this but, just about the letter, we have been having problems with our post so rang Customer Services and the letter, form and dd mandate e-mailed to us immediately. 'Deadline' is Friday...tough if you are on holiday/ away on business. Took ours up to the Amex today.
libra-gully
Member
- Jan 26, 2011
- 284
This alone is getting my goat right now. The whole assumption by the club that even those of us who have been badgering the club over the past two weeks, have only until Friday to return their forms. Talk about short notice. This would be bad enough for able bodied folk to abide to. What about those of our supporters, who rely upon a carer say for example, who may only visit on certain days. Then what about those supporters, who may have difficulty filling in forms. The whole thing is a very untasteful mess.
Personally, i am very grateful to lady Seagull for reminding us all, that technically the whole blue badge issue is a potential red herring in many ways. The definition you have just given is bang on.
Just re:BODS I am absolutely certain that the people who work extremely hard on our behalf, have told those in power, on more than one instance their concerns, but if they don't listen, you can just be flogging a dead horse (sorry Shergar!) As pointed out by many posters on this thread, it sadly appears that certain people, if they did listen, left these issues to the last minute, hence we have to mess about like rats for Friday.
It just begs the question again, does Uncle Tony know what is going on in his name?
Personally, i am very grateful to lady Seagull for reminding us all, that technically the whole blue badge issue is a potential red herring in many ways. The definition you have just given is bang on.
Just re:BODS I am absolutely certain that the people who work extremely hard on our behalf, have told those in power, on more than one instance their concerns, but if they don't listen, you can just be flogging a dead horse (sorry Shergar!) As pointed out by many posters on this thread, it sadly appears that certain people, if they did listen, left these issues to the last minute, hence we have to mess about like rats for Friday.
It just begs the question again, does Uncle Tony know what is going on in his name?
HAILSHAM SEAGULL
Well-known member
- Nov 9, 2009
- 10,364
I am a blue badge holder and went to the Amex last Wednesday to try and buy a Blue Badge parking bay.
I was told that they were not on sale yet, as advertised by the website.
The impression I got was that they were issued depending on what rate of mobility payment you receive.
Now I am 55 year old, but have not applied for Mobility payments, because I dont want to rip off the system. I still work, self employed,
and I got my Blue Badge due to Industrial Injury, basically COPD, this enables me to be able to park reasonably close to where I need to get to.
My wife tells me I'm stupid, that I should claim Mobility Payments, but all the time I can work, it feels fraudulent to me, you see so many scroungers
fleecing this country, so I havn't tried for it.
There are probably loads more deserving cases in front of me for a disabled bay, and I hope they get them, but because of my pride,
I dont think I've got any chance.
I'll use the train, and walk slowly over the footbridge and up the slope, before trying to get up all the steps to the WSU, might have to have a couple of
stops on the way up, but i'll be there on August 6th
I was told that they were not on sale yet, as advertised by the website.
The impression I got was that they were issued depending on what rate of mobility payment you receive.
Now I am 55 year old, but have not applied for Mobility payments, because I dont want to rip off the system. I still work, self employed,
and I got my Blue Badge due to Industrial Injury, basically COPD, this enables me to be able to park reasonably close to where I need to get to.
My wife tells me I'm stupid, that I should claim Mobility Payments, but all the time I can work, it feels fraudulent to me, you see so many scroungers
fleecing this country, so I havn't tried for it.
There are probably loads more deserving cases in front of me for a disabled bay, and I hope they get them, but because of my pride,
I dont think I've got any chance.
I'll use the train, and walk slowly over the footbridge and up the slope, before trying to get up all the steps to the WSU, might have to have a couple of
stops on the way up, but i'll be there on August 6th
Just a thought, can't you park up on village way with your blue badge? (for those who have one obviously)
If you have a disability then get a claim in for dla mobility component mate, you will not be "ripping off the system" or being fraudulent, the system is in place to give you financial help towards your travel requirements and is not means tested.
Superphil
Dismember
That's the bit I find difficult to work out. What is reasonable adjustment? Even in the FAs own DDA documentation they say that it is not reasonable to oust a corporate client
"The DDA allows providers not to make reasonable adjustments if the result would be a disruption of business. Therefore, if the effect of moving the corporate client is a breach of contract or could lead to the loss of business then the club may be justified in not providing a parking space in the car park for a disabled person."
And there seems to be the problem, it seems to be a matter of opinion what constitutes 'reasonable adjustment', they may see it as unreasonable to make more 'blue badge' parking spaces available. I really don't agree with the FAs approach on that.
There are 2 questions I would like to know the answer to:
1. How many people have applied for Blue Badge disabled parking spaces, and how many STH are eligible for Blue Badge parking spaces?
2. How many registered disabled STH are there, and how many have applied for the seats specifically installed as accessible (elevated at the SW corner and along the touchline at the North end of the West stand, round the corner and behind the goal on the North Stand and along the touchline at the North and along the East touchline as well as those in the 1901)?
Because if it turns out that there are fewer than 46 applicants for the blue badge spaces, or if the accessible seats are not all sold then the club can use that to defend that it has made reasonable adjustments.
As far as I can read, DDA and the more recent D&E Act 2010 only give recommendations and guidance as to the precise number of parking spaces, and that may be where they are using the ‘reasonable adjustment’ part of the legislation to provide the minimum number of parking spaces available as they can.
Superphil
Dismember
Also, surely, the stadium will not get it's safey certificate and building regs certificate if these issues are not addressed. That game has to go ahead on August the 6th, I just hope the club do have this in hand, as they have been telling us for some time, becasue, if the regs and certificates are not issued, there will be no game on the 6th.
libra-gully
Member
- Jan 26, 2011
- 284
Hi Phil,
The actual issue of seating position is to a point a red herring in this matter. Seasoned supporters like myself, when faced with the stark options of 1. the touchline, 2. the corners, 3. 1901 seats, chose (I would probably say were forced) to declare as ambulant disabled in order to be in a part of the stadium that offered cover for those who suffer with ammune related issues, or to be with their family and friends. I have documented my experience to date within this thread, and so won't repeat, but basically the club knows it has a problem, but is hoping that with an obvious short deadline, it can get itself out of the scenario.
Is there a requirement for the moderators to make this a sticky given the short timeline and the seriousness of the issue in play?
The actual issue of seating position is to a point a red herring in this matter. Seasoned supporters like myself, when faced with the stark options of 1. the touchline, 2. the corners, 3. 1901 seats, chose (I would probably say were forced) to declare as ambulant disabled in order to be in a part of the stadium that offered cover for those who suffer with ammune related issues, or to be with their family and friends. I have documented my experience to date within this thread, and so won't repeat, but basically the club knows it has a problem, but is hoping that with an obvious short deadline, it can get itself out of the scenario.
Is there a requirement for the moderators to make this a sticky given the short timeline and the seriousness of the issue in play?
Superphil
Dismember
A little reasearch, Number of disabled parking spaces for Championship clubs 2010/2011
Barnsley - 59
Bristol City - 25
Burnley - 10
Cardiff - 76
Coventry – doesn’t say how many, but indicates some can be as far away as 500m
Crystal Palace - None
Derby - 200 – Plus a buggy Service is available for spaces over 40 yards away
Doncaster - 60
Hull – do not state how many, or their proximity
Ipswich – 50
Leeds – None
Leicester – provide spaces but do not say how many
Middlesbrough – provide spaces but do not say how many
Millwall – 10
Forest – 150 between 20 -100m
Norwich – 25
Pompey – provide spaces but do not say how many
Preston – provide spaces but do not say how many
QPR – None
Reading – 140 – distance form stadium is dependent on the car park you are using
Scunthorpe – provide spaces but do not say how many
Sheffield United – 14
Swansea – 100
Watford - 17
Barnsley - 59
Bristol City - 25
Burnley - 10
Cardiff - 76
Coventry – doesn’t say how many, but indicates some can be as far away as 500m
Crystal Palace - None
Derby - 200 – Plus a buggy Service is available for spaces over 40 yards away
Doncaster - 60
Hull – do not state how many, or their proximity
Ipswich – 50
Leeds – None
Leicester – provide spaces but do not say how many
Middlesbrough – provide spaces but do not say how many
Millwall – 10
Forest – 150 between 20 -100m
Norwich – 25
Pompey – provide spaces but do not say how many
Preston – provide spaces but do not say how many
QPR – None
Reading – 140 – distance form stadium is dependent on the car park you are using
Scunthorpe – provide spaces but do not say how many
Sheffield United – 14
Swansea – 100
Watford - 17
Superphil
Dismember
I'm with you on that, but I am trying to see where the club is likely to be coming from when it states it has made all reasonable adjustments, and I imagine the actual numbers of disabled STHs and Blue Badge parking applicants will have a bearing on this.