Did Labour crash the economy?

[El Presidente]

No, you know they're not they are a tax on goods, inheritance tax is a tax on money that's already had tax paid on it , or property, goods and chattels that have already had tax paid on it.

But the goods you buy are paid for out of your net income, so you've already paid tax once when earning and then again when you spend the money.

 

[User removed 4]

Where did you get the idea that half the population are liable for inheritance tax? The threshold is currently £325,000, are you seriously suggesting that half the population have an estate worth more than that? Furthermore, if the estate is passed to a surviving spouse then no inheritance tax is liable. When that spouse dies, the threshold is double, ie £650,000.

fair enough, I'll put my hands up, I'm surprised by those figures , I'll stand by my original points though, in most cases people paying inheritance tax are far from very rich and it's also an outrageous tax in the first place.

 

[User removed 4]

But the goods you buy are paid for out of your net income, so you've already paid tax once when earning and then again when you spend the money.

Not if you're net income is below the minimum threshold , also you have a choice whether to buy goods or services,inheritance tax is like a second income tax , there is no choice.

 

[El Presidente]

No, you know they're not they are a tax on goods, inheritance tax is a tax on money that's already had tax paid on it , or property, goods and chattels that have already had tax paid on it.

IHT frequently doesn't involve paying tax on money that's already had tax paid on it.

For example, if you had bought your city boy fat cat mansion 20 years ago in Docklands for £200k, and you now die and it's worth £2 million, you haven't paid any tax on the increase in value, similarly on the equities that you bought with one of your bonuses that have increased in value.

 

[User removed 4]

IHT frequently doesn't involve paying tax on money that's already had tax paid on it.

For example, if you had bought your city boy fat cat mansion 20 years ago in Docklands for £200k, and you now die and it's worth £2 million, you haven't paid any tax on the increase in value, similarly on the equities that you bought with one of your bonuses that have increased in value.

cityboy fatcat mansion hahaha, I like you mate but you're either showing typical politics of envy labour colours or this post is tongue in cheek, my money's on the latter.

 

[El Presidente]

Not if you're net income is below the minimum threshold , also you have a choice whether to buy goods or services,inheritance tax is like a second income tax , there is no choice.

Out of interest, how many people have income below the minimum threshold have estates large enough to pay IHT?

Similarly to your argument, why not spend the money whilst you're alive, so no IHT on death?

My big beef with IHT is that the mega wealthy can afford the accountants to ensure they don't pay a bean.

 

[cunning fergus]

It was under Labour's watch that it happened. It happened because Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown all inflated and deregulated the financial sector in the UK, and other neoliberals around the world pursued similar policies. The Tories have no right to criticise Labour, as they weren't advocating cuts to the budget in the run-up to the crisis; instead, they were pimping around tax cuts for the very rich, via inheritance tax reductions. To be fair, the only MP that was articulating clear concerns with the levels of debt at that point, it was Cable (although his subsequent volte face has been resentfully taken).
The fault is neoliberalism, the idea that privatisation, deregulation, and financialisation will sort out the economy. Unfortunately, we haven't broken out of that mentality, despite its unpleasant ethos and disastrous track record.

Agree with the general thrust here, albeit there were plenty of other non political voices than Cable suggesting that the UK's economy was heading for the rocks.

Also, whilst neoliberalism, as we refer to it today, was (and is) very much the problem (not just its narrow economic orthodoxy) it was New Labour that put their foot down on the ideological accelerator.

To that extent they actively encouraged borrowing and debt, from pay day lenders, to PFI, to store cards, to RBS taking over ABN AMRO, to interest only mortgages, to sub prime mortgages. This dynamic was not repeated in other countries and consequently when the crash happened it affected other countries less than it affected the UK.

This is important because essentially debt caused the crash, and the UK's debt was part of the cause. Other countries were affected by the crash because it meant a global constriction on spending..........so when Labour trot out the refrain that it was a global issue they are spinning like Rumplestiltskin. They know.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/sep/26/ed-balls-sorry-labour-failures

The last point, now that you have arrived at this view is to join the dots up with the EU. A neoliberal behemoth.

Look at the damage they have caused, and without a democratic mandate...............the monster must be destroyed. Yes?

 

[El Presidente]

cityboy fatcat mansion hahaha, I like you mate but you're either showing typical politics of envy labour colours or this post is tongue in cheek, my money's on the latter.

My constituency MP is George Osborne, if you want to see the local blart up here watch Real Housewives of Cheshire on ITVBE!

 

[User removed 4]

My constituency MP is George Osborne, if you want to see the local blart up here watch Real Housewives of Cheshire on ITVBE!

FAR too busy watching desi rascals for its extremely high quality Bhangra muff content !!

 

[El Presidente]

Agree with the general thrust here, albeit there were plenty of other non political voices than Cable suggesting that the UK's economy was heading for the rocks.

Also, whilst neoliberalism, as we refer to it today, was (and is) very much the problem (not just its narrow economic orthodoxy) it was New Labour that put their foot down on the ideological accelerator.

To that extent they actively encouraged borrowing and debt, from pay day lenders, to PFI, to store cards, to RBS taking over ABN AMRO, to interest only mortgages, to sub prime mortgages. This dynamic was not repeated in other countries and consequently when the crash happened it affected other countries less than it affected the UK.

This is important because essentially debt caused the crash, and the UK's debt was part of the cause. Other countries were affected by the crash because it meant a global constriction on spending..........so when Labour trot out the refrain that it was a global issue they are spinning like Rumplestiltskin. They know.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/sep/26/ed-balls-sorry-labour-failures

The last point, now that you have arrived at this view is to join the dots up with the EU. A neoliberal behemoth.

Look at the damage they have caused, and without a democratic mandate...............the monster must be destroyed. Yes?

I have it on very good authority that the EU were responsible for the state of the pitch at Blackpool last Saturday too CF.

 

[User removed 4]

My constituency MP is George Osborne, if you want to see the local blart up here watch Real Housewives of Cheshire on ITVBE!

I'm in Bratislava at the moment as well mate, some seriously high quality clunge here as well !!

 

[cunning fergus]

IHT frequently doesn't involve paying tax on money that's already had tax paid on it.

For example, if you had bought your city boy fat cat mansion 20 years ago in Docklands for £200k, and you now die and it's worth £2 million, you haven't paid any tax on the increase in value, similarly on the equities that you bought with one of your bonuses that have increased in value.

I hear regularly on here the comment about how bank "privatise profit and socialise loss".

Capital gains tax is socialising profit. Plenty more people have taken a hit on capitalist ventures the state offers no compensation for this, so why should it take a slice on the upside.

My investment track record is a case in point, when I make the wrong decision I lose my money, when I make a good decision I pay tax on the profit.

What business is it of the state to dip in to my reward for taking a risk?

 

[Machiavelli]

for the very rich ?? Inheritance tax ? Do leave off , even given that half the population is liable for inheritance tax these days it's a totally and utterly immoral tax anyway, why the Fvck should people have to pay more tax on assets or money that's already had tax paid on it ?

7% of those affected fall under the bracket of inheritance tax. So you're extremely wrong on that point, but given the bile ejected in that post, it was only to be expected.

 

[User removed 4]

7% of those affected fall under the bracket of inheritance tax. So you're extremely wrong on that point, but given the bile ejected in that post, it was only to be expected.

Bile ? ? I think you should stick to mumsnet mate

 

[cunning fergus]

I have it on very good authority that the EU were responsible for the state of the pitch at Blackpool last Saturday too CF.

Having just completed a Google search on "EU Directive Sportsping Stadia" the truth appears to be stranger than fiction, their are a staggering number of directives from our unelected overlords that affect different aspects of managing stadiums, see point 4 in link below as an example.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2012/10/6740/2

Back to the point though Tory boy, the EU has an aggressively neo liberal agenda, it is the big capitalist swinging dick that Tories, liberals and new labour can't stop sucking. You like the taste too, that's fine by me.

 

[Vegas Seagull]

Blunkett said yesterday he supports an increase in the death tax revenues as 'it's like winning the lottery' when your parents die.
Disgusting individual

 

[Vegas Seagull]

Look forward to you downsizing every year when you are 90,91,92 as your property moves beyond the £325k range annually.

 

[Hamilton]

What's interesting is that when Brown and Blair were in power all sides broadly supported their economic policies. People like Cameron and Osbourne were hamstrung on the economy because they freely admitted they would have done the same thing.

Labour were just in the hot seat when the whole global system came crashing down.

Anyone who lived through those times knew it couldn't last. Cheap credit, easy mortgages, massive bonuses, money from nothing. We all knew it would burst sooner or later, it's just nobody wanted to say it. Suggesting we all stop spending and be austere wasn't exactly going to be a vote winner in the noughties anywhere in the world.

 

[Hamilton]

they actively encouraged borrowing and debt, from pay day lenders, to PFI, to store cards, to RBS taking over ABN AMRO, to interest only mortgages, to sub prime mortgages. This dynamic was not repeated in other countries and consequently when the crash happened it affected other countries less than it affected the UK.

That bit is not true as Fannie and Freddie will tell you.

 

[cunning fergus]

What's interesting is that when Brown and Blair were in power all sides broadly supported their economic policies. People like Cameron and Osbourne were hamstrung on the economy because they freely admitted they would have done the same thing.

Labour were just in the hot seat when the whole global system came crashing down.

Anyone who lived through those times knew it couldn't last. Cheap credit, easy mortgages, massive bonuses, money from nothing. We all knew it would burst sooner or later, it's just nobody wanted to say it. Suggesting we all stop spending and be austere wasn't exactly going to be a vote winner in the noughties anywhere in the world.

I'm sure Gordon Brown said on a number of occasions that he had abolished the economic cycle of boom and bust.

If that is the case, feel free to correct me, then your assertion is that we all knew it couldn't last apart from Gordon Brown and his inner circle.

As we approach the election in May, could you remind me who was in that inner circle of Gordon Brown?