[Albion] Dicking About In Our Own Goal Area

[Silverhatch]

Propper wasn't helped by Webster - he passed to Propper and told him where to pass. The telegraph was received loud and clear.

Exactly. Give him the ball but don't ****ing point where to make the next pass! Propper had pinged a couple of stonking passes to Alzate (which Alzate killed), but then limped a pass straight to Wolves when given the 'go left' signal.

 

[Milano]

Their second goal had nothing to do with our tactics, it was one bad/lazy pass compounded by one dreadful pass, also not helped by Alzate being out of position (he was too wide).
Baffles me though that Webster is getting abuse and people calling for Duffy, when Duffy is far worse for making that type of ‘you have it, I don’t want it’ pass, basically passing the buck.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Their second goal had nothing to do with our tactics, it was one bad/lazy pass compounded by one dreadful pass, also not helped by Alzate being out of position (he was too wide).
Baffles me though that Webster is getting abuse and people calling for Duffy, when Duffy is far worse for making that type of ‘you have it, I don’t want it’ pass, basically passing the buck.

People have short memories. Back end of last season Duffy was getting dog's abuse for his poor passing giving the ball away in dangerous positions.

 

[dwayne]

Couple of things .... This tactic is hardly revolutionary teams have been doing it for years.

Also did anyone hear souness having a pop at potterball on sky yesterday. Saying he didn't care about possession stats and we shouldn't be so obsessed with passing the ball about in our own half !!! ..... dinosaur

Sent from my SM-G977N using Tapatalk

 

[London Irish]

People have short memories. Back end of last season Duffy was getting dog's abuse for his poor passing giving the ball away in dangerous positions.

This was the back end of last season when he was voted player of the season, how curious

 

[Hastings gull]

Isn't one of the first things they teach you at Defender Junior School not to pass the ball across your own 6 yard box? Always used to be. Especially on a wet surface.

Yes, that is what my old PE teacher used to say. Shame he didn't teach Mr Propper.

 

[ken tiler]

Couple of things .... This tactic is hardly revolutionary teams have been doing it for years.

Also did anyone hear souness having a pop at potterball on sky yesterday. Saying he didn't care about possession stats and we shouldn't be so obsessed with passing the ball about in our own half !!! ..... dinosaur

Sent from my SM-G977N using Tapatalk

Well we did for years under Poyet and Garcia from 2009 to 2014. People used to complain about passing around in defence then!

 

[Papa Lazarou]

This was the back end of last season when he was voted player of the season, how curious

Yep. The abuse players get from the 'terraces' doesn't always relate to the views of the majority.

IN the same way that a few fans getting upset about our current playing style, or slagging of Webster doesn't mean either is correct or 'true'.

 

[Swansman]

Its not even that extreme (yet..?). This (33 seconds into the video) is how it might have looked like if we had the type of keepers/defenders to really pull it off.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I can't deny that my heart was in my mouth on a number of occasions, but it isn't surprising there were scares given Alzate and Webster are both new and Alzate isn't a right back.

There was a time when full-back was a simple position; you're part of a 4-4-2, the keeper launches it up the park, you focus just on defending and if you're battering the opposition then you might just be given licence to cross the half-way line.

Nowadays it's tippy tappy in the penalty area, get up and down the flanks, overlap with the midfielder, create width but don't leave too much space for the opposition forward to run into the channels, put in quality crosses, score the odd goal AND defend.

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

Yes it can be a bit scary to watch at times but it does increase our forward / progressive passing, as it draws in 4, sometimes 5 outfield players. This was particularly evident against Arsenal and also yesterday, but maybe less so (I thought Wolves pressed more intelligently.) Overall I’m ok with passing out from the back, as long as we also sometimes go long (Maupay’s goal) and also are happy to just launch it when it gets too risky to pass. The top teams play out from the back, we’re not quite there yet but we’re heading in the right direction in terms of style and league position.

 

[Swansman]

Isn't one of the first things they teach you at Defender Junior School not to pass the ball across your own 6 yard box? Always used to be. Especially on a wet surface.

A year ago I translated this article about Potter (originally published in some Swedish paper) where he pretty much explains he got some issues with British football mentality. Could be an interesting read for some of you:

After a year in Southampton, where no one had seen him play when they bought him, he moved down a level to West Bromwich in the second division. "I had a coach saying: "I cant make you better, but I can make you fitter. So we ran. 'If you run more than the other team you will win!'", Potter says, grinning.

"Another coach, Terry - bless him - used to say that if the opponents got a goal kick it was good, because then it was 70 meters away from our own goal. For a second I thought: Wait, that is not the answer. It triggers the mind. When we conceded goals from a corner, the coach was often speaking with the guy who lost his marking. That was all of the analysis. In my mind I thought: yeah, but we had to defend against 16 or 17 corners? Thats the problem right? You play against teams that control the ball a lot. They attack you. You start thinking."

Eventually the contract with York ended. Potter hears nothing from the club. Instead he reads on the teleprompter (or whatever the word is) that he is a out of a job, the same day he is marrying his wife.

Next destination is Boston United, a club that because of unpaid salaries tries to compensate their players with giving the players frozen turkey for Christmas. He gets to know Graeme Jones, but loses the motivation to keep playing. After a short session in Macclesfield, he quits, only 31 years old.

"I went through the coaching education but it was very traditional. It was not moving, just uncomfortable. To be a coach and stand in front of people and speak didnt feel natural. I could not go into professional football again with my toolset."

"There was a lot of ex players who didnt care, they thought they were born coaches and didnt have to learn anything about it. Maybe I didnt realise it then, but the most thing is to be able to sort and categorize ideas and put them together, structure things and people to make them better. My experience from playing and coaching wasn't that. It was just "things". Nothing. A place with "things" and people wanting a badge. No teaching, no learning."

"I realised I didnt have a damn clue about anything. I was just shit. I still realise that sometimes. But then, if I had become a coach I would have failed. I had no abilities and no ideas how to structure things. I had the education, but I learned nothing."

On his days off, Potter used to go to Swansea to watch Jones & Martinez training sessions. "They were killing League One with their ball possession. It was the first time anyone played like that in England, at least on a lower level. It became the identity of Swansea. There was a big reluctance against it within the club as well, but I saw how they were working towards something."

"You try to steal some stuff. I was looking for something as well. I had nothing. I had a bit of own thoughts but I needed a period of experimenting. I tried different systems and methods, and now when I think back that time was very important. I had a platform that showed me the things I needed to know and handle. Ideas of how I wanted to work started to grow."

"But it wasnt easy. There is this attitude in England, a culture that says: "the ball goes forward". We dont realise it before someone says: 'I saw something else'. It is a bit difficult, you need to think a bit different, you need to train a bit different, but it is possible, I knew because I saw it happening in Swansea."

Soon a vision of play got into his mind but when Potter moves to Leeds after 2,5 year in Hull he still thinks something is missing in his toolbox. "When I was playing there was no culture of learning. There was a culture of blaming, filled with mistakes and fear. As a coach you need to challenge it. But how do you do it differently?"

He starts a master education in emotional intelligence. It is provided by a psychiatrist who had earlier worked with special forces of the British army, among other places in Afghanistan where soldiers were to go into caves and tunnels and where a lot is about handling pressure in life-and-death situations.

Apart from the man wanting to become a football coach, he shares bench rows with a lot of surgeons. "How do you coop with failure and mistakes? That started to create a more theoretical understand of leadership in me. How am I going to use this knowledge in football? Mistakes happen. How do you react? How do we develop responsibility, self-conciousness and empathy? It is the most important thing in a football team. I knew it, but now I had the tools to develop it. Anyone can see a training session or practice on Youtube, but if it is delivered in a bad environment, its not going to work."

When he was done in Leeds, he was of interest to no one. "I was a university coach. No one was interested in me. They want to know: where are you signing players, what experience do you have of League Two, how are we getting out of this division? That sort of things. They dont wanna hear about a method, or how you work. Football is like that generally. When you start talking too much theory and tactics, people are going to see you as this high-brow *******. It doesnt help you being intellectually developed. You prefer someone who makes funny jokes."

"I knew I had to take another path. I wasnt exactly sure I had to go abroad. Very early, I got an offer from Swanseas youth academy, but it wasnt good enough."

In Östersund, he could in a safe environment use the methods he had been taught. He and Graeme Jones learned about "holistic" training principles on trips to Spain, and he learned about the physical periodization strategy of Raymond Verheijen. "In football, result is everything. It is too much. There is a lot of great work being done but since the team doesnt win its not interesting. Football is often simplified. The discussion seldom goes any deep, it stays short term and its danger, because we get into this conservative bubble. Then its easier to buy experience and refer backwards. That is why 95 percent of the leagues are determined by economical muscle. The big challenge of football is to leave the bubble."

 

[Mackenzie]

Couple of things .... This tactic is hardly revolutionary teams have been doing it for years.

Also did anyone hear souness having a pop at potterball on sky yesterday. Saying he didn't care about possession stats and we shouldn't be so obsessed with passing the ball about in our own half !!! ..... dinosaur

Sent from my SM-G977N using Tapatalk

Yep, I bet he wonders why he's not a manager anymore.

I can see why we do it, but it does cause anxiety amongst some of the support which must translate to the players. I'm hoping we'll adapt as supporters which in turn will give confidence to the players....that said whacking a long ball or one into row z occasionally isn't always a bad tactic.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Well we did for years under Poyet and Garcia from 2009 to 2014. People used to complain about passing around in defence then!

Poyet's achillies heal was tactical rigidity. Didn't matter who was playing, we played the same tactics pretty much. I don't think Potter would have spent 2 years playing CMS as a lone centre forward. I think his tactics provide flexibility for the player's strengths that he has available.

Ultimately, possession has to be about chances created. Souness is right, no point having a high possession stat dicking the ball around in your own half if you finish the game having very few chances. We matched a very good Wolves side for chances and shots on target with 65% possession, and beat Arsenal with 51% possession and an eye watering 20 chances 9 on target away from home. I

 

[blue-shifted]

That mistake was simply a direct result of passing without looking. Nothing to do with Potter's tactics.

It is the blind passes costing us. The reason that Stephens is better in this style than Propper is that Dale is prepared to take a touch before looking for a pass. Davy feels as if he has to get rid first time

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

Edit

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Are you in the North Stand or low down?

In the rarefied atmosphere of the upper stands you get a different perspective on the game. Wolves yesterday were defending 5-4-1 and pushing the 5 up a long way, forcing us to play in a very small section of the pitch. If we can draw a couple more in 5-2-3 or 4-3-3 improves both the ratio of attackers to defenders and the size of the pitch we can play in.

I'm in the North stand half way up. As you say, it is a different perspective. I may have to see my doctor about my blood pressure!

 

[Don Tmatter]

It’s all down to the Individual’s decision making/intelligence on the ball, something that has been lacking for us in the PL.

 

[CheeseRolls]

I'm in the North stand half way up. As you say, it is a different perspective. I may have to see my doctor about my blood pressure!

It looks just as risky, wherever you sit.

A few people have mentioned its alright as long as we vary it and sometimes play it long. This is all part of the same equation. Maupay playing alone up front wasn't going to do much when tightly double marked and isolated. If you can draw the opposition on, he suddenly has more space and options to receive the long ball. This IS different to the possession football we have played in the past. It is designed to stretch the playing space, which then makes it easier to pass your way through teams, short or long. Bissouma is essentially a ball carrier and he hasn't had much of a look in this season. It will be interesting to see what Potter makes of Izquierdo, when he finally returns. He has shown he can play nifty give and goes around the box, but has also been guilty of dwelling on the ball, cutting inside and trying one from distance a little too often.

 

[MattBackHome]

In case there was any doubt I'm firmly in Team 'Dick About'.

I'm absolutely loving it.