[News] Depp Vs Heard

[GOM]

Certainly a good option. I would obviously be at the mercy of those lawyers commenting on it as my understanding of the legal system is limited. However, if I am honest I am not going to sit down and watch the trial. The bits I have seen certainly buy into the overriding narrative of Depp = Good, Heard = Bad, but it isn't sitting right with me. Things are rarely this clear cut, no matter how much we crave the narrative.

...

I sometimes wonder how easy it is to fall into the trap of Woman = good and must be telling the truth, Man = bad and must be lying as a starting position before any evidence is considered.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Look at the trial itself on You Tube. There's various lawyers who comment on the trial legal proceedings as it goes along.

Anything other than looking at the trial proceedings, you are subjected to the opinions of the person who is reporting. That way you can come to your own conclusions.

As I did. And not believe the MSM as JRG has.

The so-called legal experts on youtube were almost exclusively on Depp's side from the off and were part of the social media campaign against Heard - their views were driven by bots from the Depp social media team and now several of them have become commentators on right-wing media platforms like Fox News. They did what they were required to do - selectively address what happened in court - and they are being amply rewarded (some made up to $20K a day during the trial from advertising and donations from Deppheads - none of which they would have got if they took a balanced approach to analysing the evidence).

You say - Anything other than looking at the trial proceedings, you are subjected to the opinions of the person who is reporting - which is precisely what you did by point to these 'lawyers' on youtube (and by the way - I watched the entire trial live).

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

This is all interesting but is it on record? I am always a bit suspicious when links and citations are not included when making such claims.

I would be interested in digging a little further, could you point me in the right direction?

Bredehoft has given interviews on national TV in the US - Depp's legal team have refused to do interviews.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10881295/Amber-Heard-appeal-Johnny-Depp-verdict-grounds-suppressed-evidence-texts-reveal-abuse.html

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

I sometimes wonder how easy it is to fall into the trap of Woman = good and must be telling the truth, Man = bad and must be lying as a starting position before any evidence is considered.

Actually - the starting position is the exact opposite - the woman has to prove everything that happened and the man can just denigrate and belittle her (just as the Depp team did to Heard over the past five years).

 

[BadFish]

Bredehoft has given interviews on national TV in the US - Depp's legal team have refused to do interviews.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10881295/Amber-Heard-appeal-Johnny-Depp-verdict-grounds-suppressed-evidence-texts-reveal-abuse.html

That is one link for a lot of information. And the mail to boot. I found similar in the independent though.

Okay, that is proof that her lawyer has said that evidence has been suppressed. Is the any evidence that it has? And how can it have been, surely this is necessary and important evidence. On what grounds was it suppressed?

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

 

[Kosh]

I’ve taken very little interest in any of this, but was somewhat surprised by the result and the Depp doon the toon not giving an ‘apparent’ **** about the outcome ... clearly confidence was high.

I watched some of the trial footage (just a few clips) and it worries me a great deal. Heard doesn’t strike me as well - surely life trauma here ? and although she’s possibly equally as culpable as Depp (who comes across like a drunken but harmless moron) I felt massively sorry for her... the brief audio clips I heard were awful, she’s clearly very unwell and was (probably is) in need of serious help... alas she was advised to go down the road of mass publicity, an unwise move against a ‘living legend’ ...

All in all a toxic relationship between two people who should never have been ‘together.’

The sad thing is, it’s probably not even over... for Heard her life is in ruin, and I can only imagine the utter hate she’ll be fully exposed to ... it’s awful.

God I hate this shitty world.

 

[beorhthelm]

Yet a UK court decided that Depp was proven to have committed acts of violence in 12 of the 14 incidents heard before the court (and the other 2 weren't proven false - just that there was insufficient evidence to prove they happened). These are the facts.

point out that UK court case was also for libel, a civil court with lower standard for proof. Heard has never taken these claims to criminal court.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

That is one link for a lot of information. And the mail to boot. I found similar in the independent though.

Okay, that is proof that her lawyer has said that evidence has been suppressed. Is the any evidence that it has? And how can it have been, surely this is necessary and important evidence. On what grounds was it suppressed?

It was excluded on a warped interpretation of the hear-say rule by the judge (who was notorious for this in Virginia). Hear-say excludes what someone said who is not a witness in a case - i.e. you cannot say in court that so-and-so told me this. The judge ruled that Heard could not tell the court what she told other people about the abuse, despite the fact that she was on the witness stand and could be cross-examined about what she said. Depp's legal team were like jack-rabbits hopping up to object to anything and everything that Heard said on the stand during her direct testimony - then during cross they were able to accuse her of never having told anyone and that she never sought medical assistance for her injuries, knowing full well that the judge would prevent her from responding to these accusations. On one occasion Heard said that she gave all her medical records to her legal team which resulted in Vasquez accusing her of lying and trying to stab her legal team in the back - knowing that the evidence had been excluded by the judge and that Heard could not tell the court what had happened.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-depp-heard-verdict-is-chilling?fbclid=IwAR271edPRkF2PLWO4Fx0e7lfENBOxKfnkEcV2udrb5yTd6DicU831jY8cZg#intcid=_the-new-yorker-bottom-recirc_bc029cac-17f4-441f-acbe-7d85c278df6d_cral2-2

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

point out that UK court case was also for libel, a civil court with lower standard for proof. Heard has never taken these claims to criminal court.

This case was also for defamation - and the laws on defamation are far stricter in the US than in the UK which meant it should have been much harder for Depp to prove his lawsuit - yet it wasn't because the trial was never about defamation, it was about an orchestrated social media campaign of vilification of Amber Heard to teach her (and other women who speak out about abuse) that the perpretrators can continue to abuse them long after the end of their relationship.

 

[surlyseagull]

(Terrible Ruling for women currently in Domestic Violent Relationships.)

Every time I watched the news on this story. I always felt I was watching an acting performance from both of them.

Doesn't bode well if we are judging acting performances as opposed to the reality of the situation.

But a very good one for many men who are subjected to domestic violence on a daily basis, but without the sympathy and support network that women get.
Women are not always the victims and men are not always the perpetrators contrary to public opinion.
I take my hat off to JD as he appears to have confronted a taboo subject that women cant be abusers and may give other men the courage to report abuse also.

 

[B-right-on]

Bredehoft has given interviews on national TV in the US - Depp's legal team have refused to do interviews.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10881295/Amber-Heard-appeal-Johnny-Depp-verdict-grounds-suppressed-evidence-texts-reveal-abuse.html

WTF has that got to do with it! ? She lost so of course she'll fight, she's finally been made to pay for her lies. Especially losing in the court of public opinion.

So many points in your many post are wrong.
1. Not only were AHs medical records allowed but her personal Doctors and her own nurse TESTIFIED there were no injuries.
2. AH had exactly the same number off paid experts as JD. She still had the $7m she lied to the UK Court she'd donated to charity so she's not short of funds.
3. There were literally dozens of video evidences.

And so on and on and on and on, Ad Nauseam....

The whole trial is available on You Tube as are many many summaries by dozens of different YT commentators. Anyone can either read your argument, the Sun the Guardian or any other media outlet for a warped view, or check it out for themselves should they want to.

Wasting my breath. You've very obviously got an anti-Depp agenda and nothing I can say or even the facts of the case are going to prove otherwise. But then again looking at your other posts I really shouldn't be surprised. Be more effective to argue with my gate post.

My lastost in reply to your unfounded and baseless arguments here.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

I’ve taken very little interest in any of this, but was somewhat surprised by the result and the Depp doon the toon not giving an ‘apparent’ **** about the outcome ... clearly confidence was high.

I watched some of the trial footage (just a few clips) and it worries me a great deal. Heard doesn’t strike me as well - surely life trauma here ? and although she’s possibly equally as culpable as Depp (who comes across like a drunken but harmless moron) I felt massively sorry for her... the brief audio clips I heard were awful, she’s clearly very unwell and was (probably is) in need of serious help... alas she was advised to go down the road of mass publicity, an unwise move against a ‘living legend’ ...

Heard grew up in a home with a drug addicted father (who took drugs with Depp) - and she has been diagnosed with PTSD as a result of her relationship with Depp. Depp is a self-described 'monster' when he is on a drink and drug-fueled binge. And Depp is back in court in a couple of weeks facing a lawsuit for punching a film crew member twice while on a film set - Depp then attempted to get him to sign an NDA and when he refused he was sacked from the film.

All in all a toxic relationship between two people who should never have been ‘together.’

I agree - and she was warned not to get involved with him - but hindsight is wonderful and it does not mean that they were/are equally responsible for what happened.

The sad thing is, it’s probably not even over... for Heard her life is in ruin, and I can only imagine the utter hate she’ll be fully exposed to ... it’s awful.

God I hate this shitty world.

Its not over - Depp's team will pursue Heard for the money and they are talking about lodging criminal complaints against her that she doctored the photos submitted at the trial - Depp wnts to continue abusing his ex-wife. Heard's film career is likely in the toilet and people like the ACLU will likely (and disgracefully) drop her like a hot poker. Heard has no option but to appeal the verdict - and has good grounds for doing so - the verdict could well get overturned, but that will not change the damage that has been inflicted by a five-year social media campaign of vilification against her.

We do live in a society that is based on greed and exploitation, patriarchy and misogyny - and the nature of society will have to change before that changes. I agree - this is a shitty world - but I have confidence that the working class people (now the vast majority of the population) will act to change it for the better.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

WTF has that got to do with it! ? She lost so of course she'll fight, she's finally been made to pay for her lies. Especially losing in the court of public opinion.

So many points in your many post are wrong.
1. Not only were AHs medical records allowed but her personal Doctors and her own nurse TESTIFIED there were no injuries.
2. AH had exactly the same number off paid experts as JD. She still had the $7m she lied to the UK Court she'd donated to charity so she's not short of funds.
3. There were literally dozens of video evidences.

And so on and on and on and on, Ad Nauseam....

The whole trial is available on You Tube as are many many summaries by dozens of different YT commentators. Anyone can either read your argument, the Sun the Guardian or any other media outlet for a warped view, or check it out for themselves should they want to.

Wasting my breath. You've very obviously got an anti-Depp agenda and nothing I can say or even the facts of the case are going to prove otherwise. But then again looking at your other posts I really shouldn't be surprised. Be more effective to argue with my gate post.

My lastost in reply to your unfounded and baseless arguments here.

From Depp's own words

"I'm a ****ing savage” and "I'm a lunatic,”

“Let’s drown her before we burn her!!!” . “I will **** her burnt corpse afterwards to make sure she’s dead.”

Depp referred to ex-wife Vanessa Paradis as “the French extortionist, ex-****.”

Depp said - ‘I want to change her understanding of what it is like to be trashed around like a pleading Mackrel I NEED, I WANT, I TAKE’ and 'Molly's pussy is RIGHTFULLY MINE !!!!! Should I not just bust in and remove its hinges tonight'

“She’s begging for total global humiliation. She’s gonna get it… She’s gonna get it,” “I have no mercy, no fear and not an ounce of emotion, or what I once thought was love, for this gold-digging, low level, dime a dozen, mushy, pointless dangling overused flappy fish market,” “I met a f***ing sublime Russian here… Which made me realize the time I blew on that 50 cent stripper… I wouldn’t touch her with a goddam glove. I can only hope that karma kicks in and takes the gift of breath from her,”

 

[Kosh]

Heard grew up in a home with a drug addicted father (who took drugs with Depp) - and she has been diagnosed with PTSD as a result of her relationship with Depp. Depp is a self-described 'monster' when he is on a drink and drug-fueled binge. And Depp is back in court in a couple of weeks facing a lawsuit for punching a film crew member twice while on a film set - Depp then attempted to get him to sign an NDA and when he refused he was sacked from the film.


I agree - and she was warned not to get involved with him - but hindsight is wonderful and it does not mean that they were/are equally responsible for what happened.


Its not over - Depp's team will pursue Heard for the money and they are talking about lodging criminal complaints against her that she doctored the photos submitted at the trial - Depp wnts to continue abusing his ex-wife. Heard's film career is likely in the toilet and people like the ACLU will likely (and disgracefully) drop her like a hot poker. Heard has no option but to appeal the verdict - and has good grounds for doing so - the verdict could well get overturned, but that will not change the damage that has been inflicted by a five-year social media campaign of vilification against her.

We do live in a society that is based on greed and exploitation, patriarchy and misogyny - and the nature of society will have to change before that changes. I agree - this is a shitty world - but I have confidence that the working class people (now the vast majority of the population) will act to change it for the better.

Thanks - interesting stuff and (yes) I’m aware you could counter argue this way or that until the cows come home... so I take this as informed opinion and thank you for it.

From where I sit, one young life is in tatters and no matter who was/us to blame I take no satisfaction in it whatsoever and find it hard to comprehend anyone who could. Obviously had it gone the other way, Depp would have been the one left in ruin... again I’d take no pleasure in that ... like I say, it’s a horrible world where I’m sure this kind of ‘relationship’ is being played out many times over just round the corner ... these people don’t have a voice and (man) I feel for them.

I’m lucky I guess, although I had a ex who displayed similar traits to Heard, who like Amber (allegedly) suffered abuse ... I didn’t know how to handle that as an early 20 something but I certainly tried ... I guess her story resonates with me, hence my bias conscious or otherwise.

I just hope she’s able to find a pathway to peace and love.

As for Depp, I suspect he’ll be fine.

 

[GOM]

Actually - the starting position is the exact opposite - the woman has to prove everything that happened and the man can just denigrate and belittle her (just as the Depp team did to Heard over the past five years).

I was talking about peoples perceptions, not trial requirements.

 

[GOM]

Actually - the starting position is the exact opposite - the woman has to prove everything that happened and the man can just denigrate and belittle her (just as the Depp team did to Heard over the past five years).

double post

 

[GOM]

Thanks - interesting stuff and (yes) I’m aware you could counter argue this way or that until the cows come home... so I take this as informed opinion and thank you for it.

From where I sit, one young life is in tatters and no matter who was/us to blame I take no satisfaction in it whatsoever and find it hard to comprehend anyone who could. Obviously had it gone the other way, Depp would have been the one left in ruin... again I’d take no pleasure in that ... like I say, it’s a horrible world where I’m sure this kind of ‘relationship’ is being played out many times over just round the corner ... these people don’t have a voice and (man) I feel for them.

I’m lucky I guess, although I had a ex who displayed similar traits to Heard, who like Amber (allegedly) suffered abuse ... I didn’t know how to handle that as an early 20 something but I certainly tried ... I guess her story resonates with me, hence my bias conscious or otherwise.

I just hope she’s able to find a pathway to peace and love.

As for Depp, I suspect he’ll be fine.

Depp's life had already been severely affected by the allegation she made, he lost his livelihood because of it, one of the reasons for the case in the first place.

Is there subconscious bias in the fact you refer to Depp by surname and Amber by first name.?

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

I was talking about peoples perceptions, not trial requirements.

So was I

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Depp's life had already been severely affected by the allegation she made, he lost his livelihood because of it, one of the reasons for the case in the first place.

Bullsh*t - the fact that he was turning up on set hours late and bombed out of his head had far more to do with it.

 

[jcdenton08]

Bullsh*t - the fact that he was turning up on set hours late and bombed out of his head had far more to do with it.

Your prejudice is undoing the validity of any point you are trying to make.