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[Offers] Depopulation crisis



Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
58,467
Faversham
Nursery for my son (almost 3 years old) is £950 a month for 3 full days!

Children are expensive, me and the mrs are in our mid twenties with combined income of £80k+ and we can’t put enough money away to get out of the rent game and buy a place. But if we’d waited to have a family until we’d brought a home we would have been much older parents than we wanted to be.

Being a young person (I’m classing that as 18-30) in this generation and especially in this country is extremely hard.
Yep.
I wonder how many, though, have bank of mum and dad to factor in?
The deposit I am about to give to my (only) child (age 39) is 70 times what my dad gave me....
The balance of the population and the economy is a funny old game....

I hope you can get to where you want to be.
And I don't imagine for a moment it won't be a slog.
 




Doonhamer7

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2016
1,512
Workplace pensions deals with oldster income to a large extent.
But healthcare provision is an issue...
And yet, with respect to the latter, better health and longevity means that COPD and cancer are simply delayed to +70, rather than the +50s.
And let's not forget, state pensions kick in later now. Take note WASPIs. Oops!
Dementia is the bigger problem - people alive and otherwise well, but dependent for 10+ years.
That even leads to a more deeper philosophical discussion - can we afford to support millions with dementia in the future?
 


portslade seagull

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2003
18,254
portslade
Yep.
I wonder how many, though, have bank of mum and dad to factor in?
The deposit I am about to give to my (only) child (age 39) is 70 times what my dad gave me....
The balance of the population and the economy is a funny old game....

I hope you can get to where you want to be.
And I don't imagine for a moment it won't be a slog.
Mine certainly does as gave him a fair chunk so he had the deposit for his house. Doubt I'll ever see any return
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
58,467
Faversham
That even leads to a more deeper philosophical discussion - can we afford to support millions with dementia in the future?
Indeed.

Well....I happen to have studied the research a bit....
The amyloid theory.
It is interesting how pharma has kept it afloat even though it is bollocks.
So Pharma guys spend 20 years on a project that dies on its arse and retire.
Younger guys in pharma rinse and repeat.
It is almost as big a scandal as the general tomfoolery in the university sector, with hubris and perverse incentives the rubric.
See my very long post on another thread earlier today.....

If only the hive mind of NSC could work to find solutions.....
there's a thought :shrug:
 




Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
55,339
Surrey
We're like locusts on this planet and some feel the answer is everyone should be having more children. Holy moly.
The problem isn't as simple as that. The population explosion has been largely happening (for decades) in poorer nations where consumption of resources is sometimes inconsequential. Meanwhile, Western nations have a falling birthrate yet continue to hog the planet's resources.

So cutting the population in the nations using the lions share of the world's resources will simply decimate those populations, whereas cutting the populations of places like Nigeria and Brazil will actually not significantly change the state of the planet. It seems to me the only solution is to find a way of distributing resources more equally around the world. Only then can the necessary global strategy be found.
 


portslade seagull

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2003
18,254
portslade
That even leads to a more deeper philosophical discussion - can we afford to support millions with dementia in the future?
When you go back 30/40 yrs dementia wasn't or didn't seem to be such a big issue. I think as HWT said living longer has brought this more into focus. It's very costly if a care home is eventually required to assist. My dad's was £1800 per week but he didn't need 24hr care. Someone who we met in hospital when my dad spent 3 months at the RSCH needed 24 care as he's dementia was more progressed was quoted £6500 a week which is madness.
 


Berty23

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2012
3,900
It feels like the penny is dropping but it will be a while before people will stop saying “if you can’t afford children then don’t have them” because as a society we can’t afford not to.

It won’t be long and we will be fighting over taking immigrating!
 




Doonhamer7

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2016
1,512
Just watched the video posted by @US Seagull - at present fertility rate in 2 generations we’ll only have 40% of our current population, so the decline will be even faster than the increase
 




zefarelly

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
23,329
Sussex, by the sea
Nursery for my son (almost 3 years old) is £950 a month for 3 full days!

Children are expensive, me and the mrs are in our mid twenties with combined income of £80k+ and we can’t put enough money away to get out of the rent game and buy a place. But if we’d waited to have a family until we’d brought a home we would have been much older parents than we wanted to be.

Being a young person (I’m classing that as 18-30) in this generation and especially in this country is extremely hard.
Your income for your age is good, way better than average . . . . . You could buy a family home. You're at the same ratio we did 22 years ago which to me suggests you're earning more and doing better.

big difference being, we started a home then family in our early mid 30s . . . .

A very personal opinion, but starting a family before you have a home is just daft . . . . I guess the word is patience.

good luck!
 




drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
24,058
Burgess Hill
The aging population is a problem. But less of a problem that overpopulation. I, for one, think the human population of Earth shrinking a bit is generally a good thing. The solution for Western democracies is actually pretty easy. It's immigration.

A lot of people who complain about it (like Musk) are really only complaining that particular demographic groups (usually whites) aren't reproducing enough.
Well I think he's doing his best to compensate for shortfall, unfortunately!!
 


drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
24,058
Burgess Hill
Surely the answer is not to have more babies but just cull the old generation!!!

Mostly they are drain on society, unproductive and, in the main, vote Tory!
 






beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,249
depopulation is only a bad thing because we built an economy with welfare, pensions and general government largesse dependant on forever growing. despite revolution of labour saving, productivity increasing technology of past 50-70 years or so. now it's too late because we, quite fairly, wanted the benefits of the revolution at the time, not wait untill old age. as each generation pays for the last, the pot is continunely emptied, we've created this demographic problem.
 


GT49er

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 1, 2009
50,436
Gloucester
Aging populations need younger people. The planet needs fewer people.

No right answer, although with the mad world we live in I'm comfortable not bringing a child in to this insanity.
It's a demographic problem. Some parts of the world need slower population growth - too many people = bad news. Other parts - especially where large families are considered essential to counter infant deaths - need less growth. They become overcrowded - immigration (mainly northward and westward) occurs; populations settle in their new homes, and while the indigenous population is reducing its birth rate for reasons of economy, sustainability etc, the newcomers retain their tradition of breeding to allow for infant death in an environment where infant death is less of an issue because of healthcare. The resulting in-balance causes tension - and off we go again.
:(
 


wellquickwoody

Many More Voting Years
NSC Patron
Aug 10, 2007
14,017
Melbourne
Young people are f***ed.

Boomers vs GenZ, UK:
House price 31 times higher
Rent 16 times higher
Petrol 18 times higher
University was free, now £32k

Salaries… 6 times higher
Context required.

Very few Boomers went to Uni.

1970 average wage circa £1200
2019 average wage circa £26000

1970 average house price circa £4700
2019 average house price circa £235000

Not arguing that it is tough, but no need for BS.
 


1066familyman

Radio User
Jan 15, 2008
15,380
Agree re working father and stay at home wife, definitely a positive as a society that we have moved away from this misogyny.

But in my situation and I’m sure many others, the nursery fees so that she can go to work (for her own mental health and sanity and why shouldn’t she be able to?) are over half what she brings into the household!
Women in the workplace still aren't finding equality though, are they, as the misogyny just moved location, with women routinely paid less for the same job as a man. Both exploited by the Capitalist system, but often the women more so.

What needs recognising is the value to society of raising children and maintaining a happy family home. That doesn't necessarily mean the woman has to stay at home, but it does mean free child care, or even 'wages for housework', as the Italian left wing feminist group, Lotta Femminista, argued for.

Depopulation will be a problem for Capitalist societies. If exploitation of workers continues at a pace where those workers can no longer even afford to breed the next generation of workers.

In short, Capitalism needs to 'give its ****ing head a wobble', to use a favoured phrase on here.
 




Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
13,839
Central Borneo / the Lizard
Crisis? It's brilliant. God knows that they're are way too many people on this planet, we need to reduce numbers before we go too far and crash and burn, taking everything with us.

Anyone worrying about who is going to pay the pensions of the old, well that's what immigration is for. Or, we all suffer for a couple of decades before we all die out and then everything is milk and honey

Read before that if the UK birthrate stayed the same as it is now then by the year 2100 the UK population will be down to 30 million. There would be some pain in getting there, but i would have liked to see what it would be like.
 


Quebec Seagull

Vive le football... LIBRE!
Oct 19, 2022
691
Gatineau, Québec, CANADA
deleted
 
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