Dealing with travellers the German way

[Sorrel]

The problem really is that travellers have a lifestyle that isn't compatible with modern society. Post motorised transport the idea of a travelling community is very different from before that time.

I know several places where travelling communities have created more permanent settlement, which is fine, but it would be better for society as a whole to deal much more harshly with those who travel and only cause disruption and criminal behaviour. The trouble is that it is virtually nothing that can be done other than try and move people on to somewhere else. That German story at the top of the thread illustrates the point - all they did was move people on.

 

[cloud]

How does a permanent place for travellers work? Surely a misnomer?

We have one nearby. They send their children to the local primary school so they can learn to read and write, then " home-school " them from the age of 12. They're off travelling around in the summer months though, so the children usually miss school in June/July. They don't get fined as it's part of their culture.

 

[Mr Putdown]

Worth noting that the 'traveller' community have effectively had their wings clipped in Ireland by the anti trespass laws, and that the eastern European population of Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic and Lithuania/Latvia hate the 'Romany' community with a vengeance. Even here down under, the Romanians are treated with contempt as they are thought to be robbers, thieves and untrustworthy. No smoke without fire........?

You do realise that the Irish travellers are not Romany?

Your last sentence is pretty racist, surprised it’s allowed on here.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

the answer is to provide some infrastructure so host communities can cope, not for us to turn into nazi comedians

Quite. There’s lots of communities which are very different to the way I live my life, travelers, Muslims and middle managers with Volvo’s on Barrett estates in dull suburbia being three. Give them the facilities they need and they can get on with it; and then there’s no big deal.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Even here down under, the Romanians are treated with contempt as they are thought to be robbers, thieves and untrustworthy. No smoke without fire........?

Cock.

 

[Cloughie]

It's the last acceptable racism but it will go the way of monkey chants eventually, handy to have a good look at the people who indulge in it now though

I've had run-ins with anti social behaviour by travellers myself but the answer is to provide some infrastructure so host communities can cope, not for us to turn into nazi comedians

Herein lies the problem. There have been COUNTLESS examples of councils upgrading the facilities at permanent camps for Travellers, only for them to be ruined (all of the copper etc stripped so the facilities are rendered unusable). The issue is that if there is a site which has to necessary capacity and requisite facilities, councils and the police are legally permitted to move those camped on public land immediately. So those travellers who don’t want to camp where they’re told to (and pay the fees that these sites charge) have a vested interest in these permenant facilities being closed down. I have a friend who works for a council in the midlands who saw a permenant site closed down the DAY AFTER a million pound plus renovation was opened. All of this isn’t a coincidence - but what is the solution? It’ll take years and countless millions spent before anyone comes up with anything I’d wager.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Cock.

John Thomas.

 

[Dr Bandler]

The problem really is that travellers have a lifestyle that isn't compatible with modern society. Post motorised transport the idea of a travelling community is very different from before that time.

I know several places where travelling communities have created more permanent settlement, which is fine, but it would be better for society as a whole to deal much more harshly with those who travel and only cause disruption and criminal behaviour. The trouble is that it is virtually nothing that can be done other than try and move people on to somewhere else. That German story at the top of the thread illustrates the point - all they did was move people on.

I am not sure putting them in a more permanent settlement solves the problems. There is an enclave at St Mary Cray in Orpington (the area where the Hither Green burglar was from). They are detested by the other residents of Orpington, including other council house tenants in St Mary Cray.

It is the problem behaviour we have to address, rather than their location. This is the case with all groups who operate outside society's norms and create havoc (e.g. street gangs). We seem to want to fiddle around the edges with good intentions rather than deal effectively with the actual problem.

 

[daveinprague]

I was at the Roma Festival Gala concert last night (Khamoro). Real gypsy people there treated me with respect, and warmth. Not sure how 'travellers' get the name Gypsy tbh

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I am not sure putting them in a more permanent settlement solves the problems. There is an enclave at St Mary Cray in Orpington (the area where the Hither Green burglar was from). They are detested by the other residents of Orpington, including other council house tenants in St Mary Cray.

It is the problem behaviour we have to address, rather than their location. This is the case with all groups who operate outside society's norms and create havoc (e.g. street gangs). We seem to want to fiddle around the edges with good intentions rather than deal effectively with the actual problem.

I agree the problem behavior should be addressed. But they do need their needs addressing. But whatever you or I think, the current approach isn’t working so something needs to change.

 

[Sorrel]

I am not sure putting them in a more permanent settlement solves the problems. There is an enclave at St Mary Cray in Orpington (the area where the Hither Green burglar was from). They are detested by the other residents of Orpington, including other council house tenants in St Mary Cray.

It is the problem behaviour we have to address, rather than their location. This is the case with all groups who operate outside society's norms and create havoc (e.g. street gangs). We seem to want to fiddle around the edges with good intentions rather than deal effectively with the actual problem.

Once people have a permanent address it's much easier to start enforcing the law on them as we should equally with everyone. It's not a quick process and I'm not pretending I'd like to live next people who behave in that demonstrable anti-social way - but it's a start.

Making it a criminal offence to occupy land without the landowners permission would also be a good idea in England.

 

[Murray 17]

Making it a criminal offence to occupy land without the landowners permission would also be a good idea in England.

And like with some driving offences, if you're caught committing an offence (ie occupying land illegally), you have your caravan seized and crushed. Job done.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Once people have a permanent address it's much easier to start enforcing the law on them as we should equally with everyone. It's not a quick process and I'm not pretending I'd like to live next people who behave in that demonstrable anti-social way - but it's a start.

Making it a criminal offence to occupy land without the landowners permission would also be a good idea in England.

Exactly this. If you want the respect of being treated as a “race” then behave yourselves. Sort out the stealing, blagging and dumping of shit everywhere and you may find the stereotypes disappear and the permanent sites become a bit more viable.

Sadly all the do-as-you-likies that have pitched up near me in the last two years have robbed, fought and littered their way in to people’s bad books.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sorrel]

And like with some driving offences, if you're caught committing an offence (ie occupying land illegally), you have your caravan seized and crushed. Job done.

The problem is that you can't take away people's homes from those who are not connected with the offence (i.e. other family members). However, you could use the Proceeds of Crime Act to take assets away if you can separate them to specific individuals and connect the assets to specific crimes - I would guess that doing so is the problem in these cases.

 

[Superseagull]

Our friendly traveling community are back in force in Brighton this evening. Huge convoy down A23 around 6pm. Some deliberately blocking roads so the convoy stayed together. Coming to a park near you!

 

[AmexRuislip]

Our friendly traveling community are back in force in Brighton this evening. Huge convoy down A23 around 6pm. Some deliberately blocking roads so the convoy stayed together. Coming to a park near you!

Palarse a bit early for their away game

 

[AmexRuislip]

Travellers trash brewery.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...p-travellers-destroying-historic-brewery.html

 

[oneillco]

Didn't realise the Irish travelled to the Continent. Benefit of EU membership I guess

It's not "the Irish". These are travellers who don't subscribe to the concept of nationality.

 

[carlzeiss]

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1630...d_and_intimidated__by_travellers/?ref=mr&lp=5

SHOP owners and dog walkers lived in fear for almost a week after a convoy of travellers camped near the seafront.

Nick Davies, 60, owner of Spitfire Cafe in Barford Court, Kingsway, Hove, said he had sleepless nights because he was constantly harassed and intimidated by travellers.

Fifteen trailers parked on Hove Lawns next to the King Alfred Leisure Centre last Thursday.

However, Brighton and Hove City Council moved them off the site yesterday morning.

Mr Davies said the travellers affected his business because customers were too afraid to go to his shop.

He said: “We experienced harassment, intimidation, verbal abuse and attempted theft.

“Around 15 kids, aged between five to 17, were standing by the shop and tried to steal our products.

“They all asked me, at the same time, how much this and that cost.

“Then they would put down 50 pence and ask if they could buy a an ice cream.

“It’s a distraction theft strategy. Some of them rode bikes and they cycle at such a dangerous pace it could have seriously hurt someone.

“They shouted at my wife and I and they also used the ‘f’ word.

“We lost business because customers are too terrified to come to the cafe.

“We had to close early on Sunday because of them.

“We’ve had several sleepless nights because we were afraid they would damage our shop.

“They urinated on our front and back doors. Even when we poured bleach and hot water in the areas the smell remains.

“A couple of kids even approached people and pretended to collect money for charity.

“When the travellers left, there was a trail of mess on the lawn. Rubbish bags, food, beer cans, used nappies, tent pegs and gas canisters were strewn all over the site.”

Mr Davies said since he bought the cafe last June, he has seen the travellers pitch up on the same site five times.

He added: “We’re absolutely terrified.

“Last year they stole one of my staff member’s bike lights.

“The council needs to build steel bollards to stop them coming in.

“They come every summer, usually in June and August.”

Dog walker Kevin Stickings, 45, from Brighton, said he had to avoid the Lawns because of the travellers

. He said: “I walk my dog here every day, but I had to change route because the travellers are quite aggressive.

“I have a small dog and some of them own big, aggressive dogs.

“Nearby businesses suffer because customers are frightened of the group.

“They come here every summer, especially in June and the August bank holiday.

“I notice they often arrive on Thursdays.

“If they are discovered by the council on the Friday, they can’t really take action immediately because no one works on the weekend.

“So the travellers earn themselves a few more days. Usually they leave a mess behind and it’s just really sad.”

The mess was cleared up by pupils from St Christopher’s School in Hove.

A school spokesman said: “We cleared up the mess on Hove Lawns not specifically because of the travellers but pupils just want to keep our seafront clean.”

A council spokesman said: “The encampment at Hove Lawns was vacated voluntarily yesterday morning after being warned yesterday that fixed penalty notices would be served today if they remained on the land.

“The council is exploring options to improve the security of the land.”