[News] Deadly floods in Germany

[Machiavelli]

The problem with the spectre of climate change, is that no one really has a reference point for how bad it could be. And that makes it hard to understand, difficult to comprehend.

In many ways, I think we all felt a bit of that at the start of last year. Despite it becoming increasingly obvious that something very significant was headed our way in the shape of the pandemic, I think for most of us (myself included) there was a sense of “but that would be horrible, therefore it can’t possibly be happening”. I’m not sure it’s really ignorance in the truest sense, but rather basic human nature. We’re hard-wired not to ruminate over our own, inevitable deaths as doing so would overshadow our lives and throttle day-to-day existence. The same is true of world-changing events.

But as we know from medical science, sometimes it’s our own safety mechanisms that do the damage, that ultimately see us off. I don’t really know how we tackle that, but if the last 18 months have taught me anything it’s that shit really does happen. And if THIS shit happens, then we potentially are well and truly fúcked - perhaps sooner than most of us could have imagined.

I’m not sure what it will take for the penny to drop, and admittedly it only just has for me, but things need to change very rapidly if we are to avoid a very dystopian future for our children. The kind of future that makes the Covid years look like absolute paradise.

This is mostly a good post, although two points:
-- there's no such thing as human nature
-- one of the better things about CV19 is that it's encouraged us to slow down and get off the hamster wheel, and I think it's helpful to compare CV19 with the climate crisis, but the most immediate difference between the two is one of temporality. CV19 was pretty much immediate, and the world was exposed to it incredible haste. CC, by contrast, is a slow burner, and its effects are being felt with different intensities and in different places at different times. I'm of the view that CC is more serious than CV19 and, given what we've achieved in reducing its effects, just think what we can do with CC. The problem isn't the will of the public, it's the will of most politicians who are most interested in carrying out the interests of big business.

 

[sydney]

This is mostly a good post, although two points:
-- there's no such thing as human nature
-- one of the better things about CV19 is that it's encouraged us to slow down and get off the hamster wheel, and I think it's helpful to compare CV19 with the climate crisis, but the most immediate difference between the two is one of temporality. CV19 was pretty much immediate, and the world was exposed to it incredible haste. CC, by contrast, is a slow burner, and its effects are being felt with different intensities and in different places at different times. I'm of the view that CC is more serious than CV19 and, given what we've achieved in reducing its effects, just think what we can do with CC. The problem isn't the will of the public, it's the will of most politicians who are most interested in carrying out the interests of big business.

cv19 needs to get the **** on with it , do what its designed to do .

 

[Weststander]

You're beginning to sound like Johnson now -- which is an insult coming from me, although toning it down, only a tiny bit . That said, a few things on this:
-- one of the reasons why the UK has achieved carbon reductions in the past few decades is because of the transition from being a big coal user to pretty much phasing it out -- although this policy/energy shift was conducted as a result of class war, but did have beneficial unintended consequences (I'll slag off Thatcher too but she understood better than any of her Tory successors)
-- much of the flattery in this chart is because the UK has exported carbon emissions elsewhere because we largely import goods (and export waste) to the periphery

I’m not insulted LOL. I find the party political tennis in the media and nsc a bit of a bore. So many folk who post have serious tunnel vision of Johnson/Tories = evil to the level of Stalin/Hitler & Corbyn/Starmer gods, or vice versa. A faux polarised position unrepresentative of the real world, whipped up by social media and the modern mainstream media.

Long after the Yorkshire, Welsh and Notts coal mines closed, we were huge importers of Polish coal, destroying the planet.

Blair/Cameron/EU targets have done a fantastic job in lowering CO2 emissions in the UK and some continental countries. Unfortunately a small dent when the US/Canada/India/Russia/China didn’t really give a toss and Brazil have allowed huge swathes of Amazonia to be bulldozed.

I’m simply sticking the reason for this thread - Germany’s floods and mankind’s wrecking of the atmosphere, not getting sucked into yet another UK party political borefest that only serves a dozen middle aged blokes on keyboards in their relentless war.

 

[sydney]

I’m not insulted LOL. I find the party political tennis in the media and nsc a bit of a bore. So many folk who post have serious tunnel vision of Johnson/Tories = evil to the level of Stalin/Hitler & Corbyn/Starmer gods, or vice versa. A faux polarised position unrepresentative of the real world, whipped up by social media and the modern mainstream media.

Long after the Yorkshire, Welsh and Notts coal mines closed, we were huge importers of Polish coal, destroying the planet.

Blair/Cameron/EU targets have done a fantastic job in lowering CO2 emissions in the UK and some continental countries. Unfortunately a small dent when the US/Canada/India/Russia/China didn’t really give a toss and Brazil have allowed huge swathes of Amazonia to be bulldozed.

I’m simply sticking the reason for this thread - Germany’s floods and mankind’s wrecking of the atmosphere, not getting sucked into yet another UK party political borefest that only serves a dozen middle aged blokes on keyboards in their relentless war.

this war started 200 years ago , we are just realising how far past the finishing point we are ........it's why everything so toxic , they know they've ****ed up so they need to blame someone ......watch yer back

 

[herecomesaregular]

This is mostly a good post, although two points:
-- there's no such thing as human nature
-- one of the better things about CV19 is that it's encouraged us to slow down and get off the hamster wheel, and I think it's helpful to compare CV19 with the climate crisis, but the most immediate difference between the two is one of temporality. CV19 was pretty much immediate, and the world was exposed to it incredible haste. CC, by contrast, is a slow burner, and its effects are being felt with different intensities and in different places at different times. I'm of the view that CC is more serious than CV19 and, given what we've achieved in reducing its effects, just think what we can do with CC. The problem isn't the will of the public, it's the will of most politicians who are most interested in carrying out the interests of big business.

This with bells on. As a young adult I always believed in capitalism with the caveat that the job of government was somewhat to protect it's people from the will and interests of big business. Now, just like America, the government bends and actively facilitates the will of big business. Such a shame.

 

[Biscuit]

hate to break it to you, everything that the oil and gas giants produce is consumed by the common man. from your car, air travel, phone, TV, clothing and carpets, to goods transportation, heating and fertilisers. there's a few areas substitution will work, most of the time they are inferior or you just move the energy and emissions somewhere else. we need to stop having and using those things to stop consumption, then they'll make less of them.

Condescending much?

None of that needed 'breaking to me', thanks. I'm not an idiot.

 

[saafend_seagull]

I live 150 metres from mosel in Rheinland palatine - second one is basically at top of road sign and my local tennis club clay courts ruined. Those are just 30 seconds walk from my flat. Happens very often though here but only when there is snow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Motogull]

This is heart breaking, and like the building collapse in Miami, it will take a while for the full horror to unfold.

The vids and pics I have seen have been terrible.

 

[beorhthelm]

Looking forward to you subjecting the Tory manifesto to similar scrutiny, and then also factoring in:

is someone suggesting they have the polices to change everything and solve the issue? as far as i recall Conservative manifesto pledged net neutral CO2 by 2050, more offshore wind generation and thin on other details too.

 

[Machiavelli]

I’m not insulted LOL. I find the party political tennis in the media and nsc a bit of a bore. So many folk who post have serious tunnel vision of Johnson/Tories = evil to the level of Stalin/Hitler & Corbyn/Starmer gods, or vice versa. A faux polarised position unrepresentative of the real world, whipped up by social media and the modern mainstream media.

Long after the Yorkshire, Welsh and Notts coal mines closed, we were huge importers of Polish coal, destroying the planet.

Blair/Cameron/EU targets have done a fantastic job in lowering CO2 emissions in the UK and some continental countries. Unfortunately a small dent when the US/Canada/India/Russia/China didn’t really give a toss and Brazil have allowed huge swathes of Amazonia to be bulldozed.

I’m simply sticking the reason for this thread - Germany’s floods and mankind’s wrecking of the atmosphere, not getting sucked into yet another UK party political borefest that only serves a dozen middle aged blokes on keyboards in their relentless war.

I know you don't like party political tennis, and I'm not exactly over-enamoured with any of them including the one that I'm a member of. I'm more interested in politics and policy frameworks -- as distinct from the parties themselves -- and, when viewed through that prism, we need a fundamental and radical transformation, as this latest episode in Germany and beyond testifies.
And Hitler and Stalin were right up there with the worst, and it would be crass to equate Johnson and the Tories with them, although it's Johnson that is the incumbent, and we've been subjected to the Tories for 11 years and, as a consequence, that's where I'll focus my primary ire.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I’m not insulted LOL. I find the party political tennis in the media and nsc a bit of a bore. So many folk who post have serious tunnel vision of Johnson/Tories = evil to the level of Stalin/Hitler & Corbyn/Starmer gods, or vice versa. A faux polarised position unrepresentative of the real world, whipped up by social media and the modern mainstream media.

Long after the Yorkshire, Welsh and Notts coal mines closed, we were huge importers of Polish coal, destroying the planet.

Blair/Cameron/EU targets have done a fantastic job in lowering CO2 emissions in the UK and some continental countries. Unfortunately a small dent when the US/Canada/India/Russia/China didn’t really give a toss and Brazil have allowed huge swathes of Amazonia to be bulldozed.

I’m simply sticking the reason for this thread - Germany’s floods and mankind’s wrecking of the atmosphere, not getting sucked into yet another UK party political borefest that only serves a dozen middle aged blokes on keyboards in their relentless war.

I haven’t read the thread. Is Boris to blame for the floods in Germany ? NSC has him responsible for most things.

 

[rogersix]

I haven’t read the thread. Is Boris to blame for the floods in Germany ? NSC has him responsible for most things.

it's been said on twitter that he left the tap running

 

[Machiavelli]

I haven’t read the thread. Is Boris to blame for the floods in Germany ? NSC has him responsible for most things.

1, having not read this thread and jumping in on this point, you're somewhat playing your hand
2, there is no such thing as a NSC view, merely views expressed by the contributors to NSC
3, in answer to the question you pose, no, Johnson is not to blame for the floods in Germany
4, he's responsible for many things, as are the Tories who we've now been subjected to for more than 11 years
5, if anything, it's his irresponsibility that should be a matter of concern

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

1, having not read this thread and jumping in on this point, you're somewhat playing your hand
2, there is no such thing as a NSC view, merely views expressed by the contributors to NSC
3, in answer to the question you pose, no, Johnson is not to blame for the floods in Germany
4, he's responsible for many things, as are the Tories who we've now been subjected to for more than 11 years
5, if anything, it's his irresponsibility that should be a matter of concern

1) I jumped in on this point’ because it was quoted in the post at the top of the last page so the first one I read. No hand to play.
3) thanks

 

[beorhthelm]

saw on twitter, sort of awkward conversations to be had and changes to face. heating largest source of CO2, people will have to pay thousands to retrofit gas to electric sources, then pay more on their energy bills. tough ask.

[tweet]1416342924678270980[/tweet]




source article https://www.telegraph.co.uk/environ...ves-gas-boilers-cost-12bn-government-planned/

 

[£1.99]

Also Poland
https://youtu.be/BxnIv5bbQ70

 

[Poojah]

Also Poland
https://youtu.be/BxnIv5bbQ70

The first few seconds of this clip gave me a weird sense of deja vu, and then…

https://youtu.be/M67E9mpwBpM

 

[Pint of Ale and a Burger]

Terrible scenes.
I saw the subway in the news in China it's just awful for the people there.

 

[redoubtable seagull]

Need to avoid the political point scoring that this thread has descended into recently and acknowledge the human tragedy arising from these awful events.

A work colleague’s family live in Germany and were seriously affected by the floods. Lost their home, possessions, etc and a number of their neighbours are lost, presumed dead. His description of what happened when he finally got to speak to his family make it sound terrible.