[Albion] Davy Propper to Ajax for 21m

[Icy Gull]

Just trying to bring a degree of perspective to pre-season excitement Icy. But those expectations on Potter are rising.
releasing shackles, entertaining football, playing u23s, signing new players, progressive tactics, taking us to the "next level", getting Ali J scoring and no doubt keeping us in the Prem League with a cup run to boot.

To hell with the cup run I didn’t even enjoy that!

 

[Wardy's twin]

To hell with the cup run I didn’t even enjoy that!

It certainly was a mixed emotion for me. 3 games where perhaps we should have been able to express ourselves and didn't but I guess getting to a Wembley pissup , sorry semi final was a result in its own way.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Just trying to bring a degree of perspective to pre-season excitement Icy. But those expectations on Potter are rising.
releasing shackles, entertaining football, playing u23s, signing new players, progressive tactics, taking us to the "next level", getting Ali J scoring and no doubt keeping us in the Prem League with a cup run to boot.

I'm expecting an improved guest pie offer too.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I think OG is a brilliant example of a manager adapting his style to suit his playing staff. He very quickly realised that his squad wasn't capable of playing how he wanted so he had to revert back to what they were good at - basically Gus's tactics.

The opposite of that is Sammi Hyypia who tried to shoehorn players into a formation they didn't understand and weren't suited to, with disastrous results.

in Sammi's defence, the players he was provided were utter garbage. None of the players he had have had any sort of career in the Championship after leaving us. He developed Lewis Dunk, fair play to him for that. But I do wonder if he was just unlucky with the truckload of rubbish he had at his disposal. Nobody thought Chris O'Grady was going to be any good, and he really wasn't. I think Sammi was a mixture of a bad manager, with bad players. The inevitable happened.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I am not as knowledgeable as many on this forum and tend to watch only Brighton. The experience last year was painful at times and there were more painful times than good ones both home and away. Whether it was CHs style of play or the quality of our players only time will tell but personally I do think CH played it too tight and was not aware enough tactically to be able to change a game nor the general way we played during the season.

Potter will bring a different style of play , he will have his own views on this but he will also be under some instruction to change style from PB & TB and that will be about playing more attacking football. If he hasn't been told that then why sack CH.

So will the players be able to respond , there was a lot of discussion earlier about Propper and he might be key to the future. Personal opinion is that he did not deliver enough and when he did get forward he did not enough conviction with his shooting. I think he will be a key measure of the success of the managerial change (assuming we keep him) because he is obviously talented but talent (potential) is not everything IF you don't capitalise on it. My hope is Potter turns him into the creative attacking player we need. I also believe PB & TB will want to get some U23 players in the squad and playing to show the quality of what they are doing which will attract more good junior players. It could also allow us to have fewer expensive players but make sure they are quality with numbers made up by 2-3 U23s.

 

[Bwian]

Just trying to bring a degree of perspective to pre-season excitement Icy. But those expectations on Potter are rising.
releasing shackles, entertaining football, playing u23s, signing new players, progressive tactics, taking us to the "next level", getting Ali J scoring and no doubt keeping us in the Prem League with a cup run to boot.

As long as Potter gives our under 23s more than a combined total of 18 minutes in his first 4 years we'll have seen progress.

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[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Well I’m buggered, bring CH back if that’s the case. There was me thinking that the players played like he trained them to. I had no idea they ignored his instructions and went on the pitch and decided to defend in depth without showing any desire to attack in case they lost the ball and conceded on the counter.

You're reading it like it was chess and the players were automatons mindlessly following the manager's instructions to the letter. Trhth be told it was more like draughts than chess. Let's see how these gloriously unshackled players do this coming season. Give it til September til the same old same old surface on here.

 

[Icy Gull]

You're reading it like it was chess and the players were automatons mindlessly following the manager's instructions to the letter. Trhth be told it was more like draughts than chess. Let's see how these gloriously unshackled players do this coming season. Give it til September til the same old same old surface on here.

You might think you do, but you haven’t got a clue how things will go and neither do I. Maybe you should try having as much faith in the chairman as you seem to have in CH, TB didn’t sack CH for an end of season laugh.

 

[bhafc99]

...getting Ali J scoring...

Woah, calm down fella, we’re trying to have a reasoned debate here. There’s no need for that kind of nonsense.



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[Bry Nylon]

Trhth be told it was more like draughts than chess.

Trhth be told it was more like Trivial Pursuit than draughts or chess.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

You might think you do, but you haven’t got a clue how things will go and neither do I. Maybe you should try having as much faith in the chairman as you seem to have in CH, TB didn’t sack CH for an end of season laugh.

TB got the shock of his life last season when his long term footballing dynasty planning came within two shakes of a lamb's tail of turning to dust earlydoors. We'll never know how much of an input CH had into the cruddy recruitment decisions, and he's too much of a gentleman to ever tell us. Be highly interesting to see if GP can make silk purses out of a number of sows ears. My money says he's on a hiding to nothing. Much like CH before him.

 

[chaileyjem]

in Sammi's defence, the players he was provided were utter garbage. None of the players he had have had any sort of career in the Championship after leaving us. .

Yes. Of most of the signings/loans that summer - then we didn't from them again...but Joe Bennett, Stockdale, Baldock, Gary Gardner all had reasonable Champ careers either for us and/or other teams after he left.

 

[Guinness Boy]

TB got the shock of his life last season when his long term footballing dynasty planning came within two shakes of a lamb's tail of turning to dust earlydoors. We'll never know how much of an input CH had into the cruddy recruitment decisions, and he's too much of a gentleman to ever tell us. Be highly interesting to see if GP can make silk purses out of a number of sows ears. My money says he's on a hiding to nothing. Much like CH before him.

For me it's somewhere in between the two extremes you and Icy are discussing. I don't think they are all sows ears but they all have weaknesses and that's part of the game we're playing and part of where our comparative financial strength lies. You look at the recent arrivals and you can list weaknesses off the bat. Locadia - can't head and looks like he doesn't want to get involved at times. Montoya - postioning. Ali J - does not look fast or strong enough. Bissouma - decision making and generally being a bit raw.

But equally they MUST have strengths that came through in the data and in CH signing off on them joining the club and, let's face it, on picking them week after week instead of the U23s. From Ali J's highlights reel it's finishing. But we've not seen it yet. Locadia, with the ball on the ground can be a menance - see the goal agaist Millwall. Montoya has that decent Spanish technique that players who have his cv need. Bissouma is wonderfully exciting going forward and can make great tackles and interceptions. The potential for him to be box to box exists.

But if they didn't have the weaknesses to go with the stregths we wouldn't have signed them. We couldn't have afforded the fee or the wages and they wouldn't have wanted to join us. A fully formed and mature, box to box Biss would be playing Europa League at least. A faster, stronger Ali would already have been in the EPL. A Montoya who could defend would have stayed at Barca. Etc etc.

What we saw from CH was a tendency in the last six months to select them but then to play conservatively with the faults in mind. His Positive Mental Attitude disappeared in the pragmatic scrap for survival and every week we went without a goal or a point it got worse rather than better.

And so to Propper, the subject of the thread. When he chooses he can run the game. Fantastic technique and creative as many Dutch players are. But no pace. That's HIS weakness,. That's why he's Moneyball. And, in our formation last season, that meant staying back because it was Pascal's job to provide the creativity and Stephens' job to sit and break up play. CH could not or did not want to encourage him forwards because he would have been caught out of postion and, defensively, that meant at time a huge Propper and Montoya shaped hole at the back.

£20 million is honestly robbing us for a Dutch international. But he'll never play to his full potential here all the time we have Gross. If we can cash in for a box to box player who has pace as his strength and something else as a weakness then we can keep Pascal as our luxury creative player.

 

[Weststander]

TB got the shock of his life last season when his long term footballing dynasty planning came within two shakes of a lamb's tail of turning to dust earlydoors. We'll never know how much of an input CH had into the cruddy recruitment decisions, and he's too much of a gentleman to ever tell us. Be highly interesting to see if GP can make silk purses out of a number of sows ears. My money says he's on a hiding to nothing. Much like CH before him.

TB is very astute. As well as deciding to sack a manager he deemed to have a negative approach to PL matches, he witnessed himself the glaring squad deficiencies. So I expect to see some quality signings in key positions, to give GP the tools he needs.

If not, I’d bet on relegation.

The club can afford to spend a substantial chunk of its £135m income on those players.

 

[Weststander]

I am not as knowledgeable as many on this forum and tend to watch only Brighton. The experience last year was painful at times and there were more painful times than good ones both home and away. Whether it was CHs style of play or the quality of our players only time will tell but personally I do think CH played it too tight and was not aware enough tactically to be able to change a game nor the general way we played during the season.

Potter will bring a different style of play , he will have his own views on this but he will also be under some instruction to change style from PB & TB and that will be about playing more attacking football. If he hasn't been told that then why sack CH.

So will the players be able to respond , there was a lot of discussion earlier about Propper and he might be key to the future. Personal opinion is that he did not deliver enough and when he did get forward he did not enough conviction with his shooting. I think he will be a key measure of the success of the managerial change (assuming we keep him) because he is obviously talented but talent (potential) is not everything IF you don't capitalise on it. My hope is Potter turns him into the creative attacking player we need. I also believe PB & TB will want to get some U23 players in the squad and playing to show the quality of what they are doing which will attract more good junior players. It could also allow us to have fewer expensive players but make sure they are quality with numbers made up by 2-3 U23s.

If GP finds a first 11 that produces and Propper doesn’t feature in it, as an Albion fan foremost I’d be happy with that. I wouldn’t gauge GP adversely on joining CH in not being able to turn Propper into a consistent PL performer.

Time will tell.

 

[chaileyjem]

As long as Potter gives our under 23s more than a combined total of 18 minutes in his first 4 years we'll have seen progress.

How much time has he given Dunk and March who signed for the club as teenagers ?

 

[Southwest Seagull]

in Sammi's defence, the players he was provided were utter garbage. None of the players he had have had any sort of career in the Championship after leaving us. He developed Lewis Dunk, fair play to him for that. But I do wonder if he was just unlucky with the truckload of rubbish he had at his disposal. Nobody thought Chris O'Grady was going to be any good, and he really wasn't. I think Sammi was a mixture of a bad manager, with bad players. The inevitable happened.

These are my thoughts.

Wrong manager, given some poor players.

 

[jamie the seagull]

TB got the shock of his life last season when his long term footballing dynasty planning came within two shakes of a lamb's tail of turning to dust earlydoors. We'll never know how much of an input CH had into the cruddy recruitment decisions, and he's too much of a gentleman to ever tell us. Be highly interesting to see if GP can make silk purses out of a number of sows ears. My money says he's on a hiding to nothing. Much like CH before him.

Not sure how anyone can form an opinion on the signings when CH never played them (exc Bissouma)…
And when they were given a chance they were played out of position.
Signings are based on fitting into existing Team formation, CH then changed this.
Potter will only know what we have when he actually gets to train them.

 

[B.W.]

TB got the shock of his life last season when his long term footballing dynasty planning came within two shakes of a lamb's tail of turning to dust earlydoors. We'll never know how much of an input CH had into the cruddy recruitment decisions, and he's too much of a gentleman to ever tell us. Be highly interesting to see if GP can make silk purses out of a number of sows ears. My money says he's on a hiding to nothing. Much like CH before him.

My money's on a few silk purses... CH failed (no improvement over season before last), he got sacked, get over it...

 

[Triggaaar]

CH failed (no improvement over season before last)

Success and failure isn't simply determined by whether you do better than the season before.