[Albion] Davy Propper - I'm sorry

[Yes Chef]

I agree with the thrust of the OP's point about Propper's anonymity in the first half, although I like him as a player. Duffy, however, was excellent in the first half and it was the combination of this and Southampton's finishing ineptitude that meant we went in at half time only one down. We were dreadful first half. Duffy wasn't. We were much improved second half (after a rollicking team talk).

You're absolutely right about Duffy, I overlooked him, he kept us in it. I reckon he enjoys playing in that away kit!

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Propper was poor, but he isn’t normally. If that helps.

Hi Mr most thumbs up on this thread I agree with you by the way. Most of the time he's perfectly adequate. Last season, with no competition for places and his general reliability, that was fine. This year, with the arrival of Bissouma, I'm wondering if he does enough to deserve an automatic place on the team-sheet. My opinion of his performance in the first half yesterday backed up what I have been thinking for a while, I just don't think he shows enough in the difficult away games. He was totally missing in last night's first half performance, we were playing with 10 and Stephens and Bissouma struggled to cope. All the commentators pointed out they were outnumbering us in midfield, which is remarkable when we were playing 4-5-1 versus their 4-4-2. If it was a one-off I would let it slide but as it backs up what I've been thinking for a while I think its worthy of discussion. I can see its still a minority view.

This isn't an Ashley Barnes thread btw, there is no 'agenda' here other than defending a point and I fully recognise some good performances from him, but he hardly ever does anything special which you kind of need from your CM - especially when the other CM is renowned as the guy who does all the dirty work to break up the other teams play and shift us from defence to attack. I think Bissouma has shown more intrigue in his few appearances so far than Propper has done for quite some time

 

[TSB]

He was the worst player on the pitch first half, in my view.

But much, much better second half, retaining possession and getting forward to help Murray.

It's a rareity for me, but I completely agree with BG's summary.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

What a garbage thread. Propper had a mare today but normally he is reliable.

This. And all the other bedwetting. Why start a thread slating one of our players? Just add a comment to the match thread, FFS. What does the OP expect? Should we boo Davy's name when announced before Spuds? Yes I realise NSC is 'all about opinions'. So here is mine. No player plays like a god every week. Some times your missus may look a bit rough in the morning after a big sesh the night before. Do you call for a divorce?

 

[Wardy's twin]

Did you watch him second half? He was pushed forward into a number 10 role, and at times it looked like his natural position. He can turn very well and has a great first touch. Pushing him on actually made a huge difference, and was part of the reason we were so much better in the 2nd half. He quite clearly had a rocket put up him at half time because as you say he did nothing first half but was everywhere in the 2nd.

He can't finish... we need a number 10 who scores goals ....

 

[borat]

Also agree he would be better in a more advanced role - No 10 perhaps.He was much more attacking for PSV and got assists and goals.

Maybe consider playing Kayal who is probably our most combative/best tackler as a DM alongside either Stephens and Bissouma and allow Propper more scope to go forward.

 

[aolstudios]

He can't finish... we need a number 10 who scores goals ....

Yes he can.
Further forward for Holland & PSV he's done just that

 

[Bold Seagull]

He was the worst player on the pitch first half, in my view.

But much, much better second half, retaining possession and getting forward to help Murray.

It's a rareity for me, but I completely agree with BG's summary.

Sign of a good player to have a stinker, probably take a fair bit of criticism at half time, and come out and put everything into turning it around. I would't mind seeing the statistics, but it felt like Propper was key to getting Knockeart into the game and seemed to find him whenever he could, and support the forwards. His headed chance though was dreadful. He'd be elevated as a player if he could just carry more of a goal threat.

 

[cjd]

Something of a loaded statement, who do you suggest the problem rests with?

I just find it rather odd that so many think all the players had an off day in the first half and because Chris Hughton gave them a telling off at half time, they all became better players...??

It seems quite obvious to me that the tactics employed by the manager were the main problem. Thankfully , he changed it at half time.

 

[Icy Gull]

You're absolutely right about Duffy, I overlooked him, he kept us in it. I reckon he enjoys playing in that away kit!

Hopefully Saturday will be the day that both Dunk AND Duffy play blinders, seems to be one or the other recently.

Back on topic, I’m not joining in a Propper knockfest, he has been great mostly. Every player has the occasional stinker (most of the team did first half yesterday)

 

[Biffer]

I honestly think that unless players are eye catchingly flairtastic, score goals regularly or win everything in central defence then some people think they must be poor.
Yes, Propper had a bad first half last night but he's been incredibly solid and reliable week in week out.
He gets through an absolute mountain of work in the middle of the park and we'd miss him massivley if he wasn't there.
I honestly can't believe people don't see his positive contribution to the team. Maybe he needs to beat 4 men and stick one in the top corner before he's appreciated...

Highly selective.

He was arguably man of the match against Manchester United, and he put in a shift against Fulham.

So I'm not sure what this agenda is all about.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I just find it rather odd that so many think all the players had an off day in the first half and because Chris Hughton gave them a telling off at half time, they all became better players...??

It seems quite obvious to me that the tactics employed by the manager were the main problem. Thankfully , he changed it at half time.

I started another thread regarding the tactics of Southampton which I felt were more manager led during the game, because Southampton were playing well, getting men forwards, but at 1 nil, even though we weren't pressing, or putting them under pressure, their full backs stopped getting forward, it was a tactical change because they were playing well enough and we weren't actually forcing them back, it was their decision to sit on their lead.

With regard to us first half, you simply cannot blame tactics if players cannot control the football and pass from A to B in what should be a straightforward pass. It really doesn't matter what the manager says or does, that is completely down to the players, and in a team it spreads like a virus. That is why we talk about leaders on the pitch, because a manager only has so much influence. In the break CH might not have had to say much, I seem to remember a quote about Shankly where Liverpool were getting battered by Spurs or someone and at HT the players were expecting a rollicking, but he left them in silence, and on the bell to return to the pitch just said '**** sake lads its only Spurs'. He's called a tactical genius when they turned it around afterwards!

IMHO, the tactics would only be obvious if players are doing the right things, but there aren't spaces to pass to, that there isn't support in good positions. We lost possession so many times, so simply and without too much pressure that it is really hard to agree that it was tactics at all.

I don't think he changed much at half time. I think he told Bissouma to stop running around like a headless chicken and try to work in the gap between Murray and the midfield, and asked for some more closing down BUT crucially this worked in conjunction with Hughes own negative tactics which allowed us to press them as they were much less adventurous.

 

[Seasidesage]

Propper was awful. I was amazed he came out for the 2nd half TBH. So what? Mostly, he is excellent, this was probably his worst performance in an Albion shirt but everyone is entitled to an off day...

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

This. And all the other bedwetting. Why start a thread slating one of our players? Just add a comment to the match thread, FFS. What does the OP expect? Should we boo Davy's name when announced before Spuds? Yes I realise NSC is 'all about opinions'. So here is mine. No player plays like a god every week. Some times your missus may look a bit rough in the morning after a big sesh the night before. Do you call for a divorce?

Hi OP here. I posted it because his performance backed up what I've been feeling about him for a while, that he isn't bringing much to the table at the moment, and can go missing. Bissouma offers this tantalising promise that has made me look closer at Propper. For me, this wasn't a knee-jerk thread to a poor performance, but a continuation of a trend. The thread is not about slating Propper but wondering whether we are getting enough contribution from that position in the team, and I'm interested to see whether others saw this too, but it seems the majority don't.

That opinion is quite a long way from 'Should we boo Davy's name when announced before Spuds'? Don't assume everyone treats everything as black or white on here

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

It's key that Propper was the one freed up (and kept on) second half and those slight tactical changes brought about our recovery. He's one of the only players we have who consistently, successfully receives the ball in half spaces on the turn and allows us to go at the opposition.

So whilst I agree, he was poor first half (only really Duffy who wasn't), I think that was in part because the midfield 3 simply didn't know what their roles were. The second half shape changes made a massive difference and Propper was absolutely key to that with his movement and technical ability.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I started another thread regarding the tactics of Southampton which I felt were more manager led during the game, because Southampton were playing well, getting men forwards, but at 1 nil, even though we weren't pressing, or putting them under pressure, their full backs stopped getting forward, it was a tactical change because they were playing well enough and we weren't actually forcing them back, it was their decision to sit on their lead.

With regard to us first half, you simply cannot blame tactics if players cannot control the football and pass from A to B in what should be a straightforward pass. It really doesn't matter what the manager says or does, that is completely down to the players, and in a team it spreads like a virus. That is why we talk about leaders on the pitch, because a manager only has so much influence. In the break CH might not have had to say much, I seem to remember a quote about Shankly where Liverpool were getting battered by Spurs or someone and at HT the players were expecting a rollicking, but he left them in silence, and on the bell to return to the pitch just said '**** sake lads its only Spurs'. He's called a tactical genius when they turned it around afterwards!

IMHO, the tactics would only be obvious if players are doing the right things, but there aren't spaces to pass to, that there isn't support in good positions. We lost possession so many times, so simply and without too much pressure that it is really hard to agree that it was tactics at all.

I don't think he changed much at half time. I think he told Bissouma to stop running around like a headless chicken and try to work in the gap between Murray and the midfield, and asked for some more closing down BUT crucially this worked in conjunction with Hughes own negative tactics which allowed us to press them as they were much less adventurous.

I'd disagree wholeheartedly. I think a lot of the simple problems came because of tactical issues. There was no obvious outlet ball in the first half. Murray was clearly instructed not to run the channels (as opposed to the second half), and the idea was that we'd play into him and then have runners from midfield in support. That didn't happen as Murray was isolated and this left Propper and Bissouma effectively in no man's land, unsure when to go and when to stay. At times, both Bissouma and Propper were further forward than our wide men, yet not nearly close enough to Murray to fight for second balls or put pressure on their defence.

That changed with a shift second half. Propper was noticeably further forward (not necessarily in Gross' role) and with the clear instruction to support Murray and press them. Murray in turn started running the channels and this opened up space for the midfield to run into. Bissouma, in contrast, sat alongside Stephens who himself was less shackled than he was first half. Knockaert also had the reins taken off him, as he appeared centrally, left and in his usual right sided position, almost dictating the play as we started to pen them in. And March was clearly instructed to stay higher and wider as an outlet ball.

With much clearer instructions, it looked like the players knew where each other would and should be and that's a big, big deal at that level I'd imagine. Although I concede that Hughes definitely took his foot off the gas - he often left Redmond solely to counter attack against Montoya who had a horrible game, and it nearly worked for him. But credit must go to Hughton for his slight changes.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

This. And all the other bedwetting. Why start a thread slating one of our players? Just add a comment to the match thread, FFS. What does the OP expect? Should we boo Davy's name when announced before Spuds? Yes I realise NSC is 'all about opinions'. So here is mine. No player plays like a god every week. Some times your missus may look a bit rough in the morning after a big sesh the night before. Do you call for a divorce?

Drink problem H ?
regards
DR

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Hopefully Saturday will be the day that both Dunk AND Duffy play blinders, seems to be one or the other recently.
)

Dunk has been ordinary this season.
Poor vs Watford and Fulham, bit better yesterday.

Duffy on the other hand, really playing well.


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[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Hi OP here. I posted it because his performance backed up what I've been feeling about him for a while, that he isn't bringing much to the table at the moment, and can go missing. Bissouma offers this tantalising promise that has made me look closer at Propper. For me, this wasn't a knee-jerk thread to a poor performance, but a continuation of a trend. The thread is not about slating Propper but wondering whether we are getting enough contribution from that position in the team, and I'm interested to see whether others saw this too, but it seems the majority don't.

That opinion is quite a long way from 'Should we boo Davy's name when announced before Spuds'? Don't assume everyone treats everything as black or white on here

Fair enough.

Unfortunately black and white are two of my favourite colours

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

The second half shape changes made a massive difference and Propper was absolutely key to that with his movement and technical ability.

Good summary on this thread regarding the tactics, however, I do draw the line on technical ability.

Picks and usually executes good passes, but technically he appears limited when in the penalty area (which is surprising). The header was very poor, and when in a goal scoring position for some reason he freezes and rarely looks like scoring.

He needs to urgently improve in this area IMO.




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