David Burke, is the fat lady clearing her throat?

[Seagull over Canaryland]

I'm not an apologist for the Board, but common sense tells me that we just cannot compete with most other Championship clubs.

David Burke has to work within both a finite transfer budget and strict wage structure set by Tony Bloom. Despite this we all have great expectations that Burke will somehow magic a series of marquee signings. We don't have the luxury of parachute money so don't waste time dreaming that we can pay the sort of inflated fees that recently secured McCormack and Ulloa in the Championship - and even Assombalonga from Lge. 1.

In reality I suspect that we probably have 'only' around £4m with which to buy 2 or 3 players, which limits the choice/calibre we can look at. Furthermore it seems that a wage ceiling of £10k-£12k per week as suggested on here is not enough to secure the likes of Ward or Clayton, who aren't world beaters, but certainly good enough to do a decent job for us. Players agents know that FFP will bite at some point soon, so now is possibly the last time to agitate for better deals - or walk away. Too easy for the Albion to get gazumped. I don't see what Burke can do about that, given that his hands are tied.

I feel that Tony Bloom is determined to tough out the short term until FFP really kicks in and the transfer market shrinks back towards The Albion's level. We will emerge in compliance with FFP, with a sustainable wage structure and a future underpinned by home grown talent from the centre of excellence. Competing for the play offs this season would be a heck of an achievement. I also don't think the loss of successive managers and disruption to continuity is helping. Realistically anything better than a mid table finish will be a decent achievement.

 

[Worthingite]

I don't honestly understand what DB does - with TB holding the money, and Sami identifying the players that he wants, I don't understand how a club that's stridently adhering to FFP can legitimately have a Head of Footballing Operations?

 

[Grombleton]

Facts and logic. Something you fail to recognise and something you apparently lack.

Where's that pot and kettle...

 

[Grombleton]

I don't honestly understand what DB does - with TB holding the money, and Sami identifying the players that he wants, I don't understand how a club that's stridently adhering to FFP can legitimately have a Head of Footballing Operations?

That's the incorrect bit. He doesn't solely do that - Sami may have some input into it but that's as far as it goes - the rest is down firstly to DB, then a combo of DB and probably TB as well.

 

[Worthingite]

That's the incorrect bit. He doesn't solely do that - Sami may have some input into it but that's as far as it goes - the rest is down firstly to DB, then a combo of DB and probably TB as well.

But, historically, that is the way it has always been, up until about 10 years ago managers did identify their own targets. I can't see what another person, who doesn't pick the team, and doesn't necessarily see the "long term vision" that a manager does, gives to the equation?

 

[Grombleton]

But, historically, that is the way it has always been, up until about 10 years ago managers did identify their own targets. I can't see what another person, who doesn't pick the team, and doesn't necessarily see the "long term vision" that a manager does, gives to the equation?

I can only presume that they communicate - if a player that Burke recommends doesn't fit into Sami's plans then they don't get pursued. I think Bozza mentioned (or someone else) that Burke had given Oscar a list of great players he was able to get but Oscar turned them all down. I don't think they just work completely separate with each other - i'd presume that there's near daily conversations between them. I don't know for certain, but then none of us here do!

 

[Stat Brother]

But, historically, that is the way it has always been, up until about 10 years ago managers did identify their own targets. I can't see what another person, who doesn't pick the team, and doesn't necessarily see the "long term vision" that a manager does, gives to the equation?

Because back in the day manager A said to his chairman 'I want player x'.
Chairman A spoke to chairman B and a deal either was or wasn't sorted.

The worst it ever got was if manager A really really wanted player x, he'd have to start handing envelopes of cash around, until player x signed, when 'everybody' was happy.


Howard Wilkinson phoned Sir Alex with a ridiculous offer for Dennis Irvin.
Naturally he was told to shove it.
But before Fergie put the phone down he said 'but I will take Cantona off your hands'.

Bish bosh job done inside a week.

Can you even begin to imagine that happening today.
Agents, lawyers, contracts, image rights, sponsorship deals, add ons, bonuses and on and on.

That's why every club has a David Burke, because a manger just couldn't do it.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

I don't honestly understand what DB does - with TB holding the money, and Sami identifying the players that he wants, I don't understand how a club that's stridently adhering to FFP can legitimately have a Head of Footballing Operations?

TB is a figurehead dealing with strategic matters. Sami is focused on first team / squad matters.

Burke has to do the day to day donkey work maintaining knowledge of players across Europe, their circumstances, liaising with scouting networks and then bringing potential players of interest to the attention of TB and SH. Once he has the green light to proceed he has to pursue deals, none of which can be as straightforward as we might suspect, with contract, work permit and medical issues and no doubt some slippery players agents and rival clubs trying to gazump us. During transfer windows he might be juggling multiple deals and maybe a fraction of these might bear fruit.

I guess it makes sense that neither TB or SH should be burdened with this workload to detract them from their primary roles. SH has his work cut out getting to grips with the squad. Ideally he wouldn't be racking up thousands of miles over and above that watching possible signings or spending hours wheeling and dealing for possible transfers. Plus at the moment Sami doesn't have an assistant manager to share this workload with, even if it is appropriate.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I don't honestly understand what DB does - with TB holding the money, and Sami identifying the players that he wants, I don't understand how a club that's stridently adhering to FFP can legitimately have a Head of Footballing Operations?

Listen to the Fans Forum from last night. Paul Barber explains why every club has a director of football now.

 

[RexCathedra]

I can't see what another person, who doesn't pick the team, and doesn't necessarily see the "long term vision" that a manager does, gives to the equation?

What's the average manager's tenure these days? One ten-game bad patch and you're out on your arse -- and Sammi Knows that better than most.

"Long term vision" went into retirement with the likes of Gradi and Ferguson.

 

[The Large One]

Let's just say our opinions differ. No matter what you say DB IS accountable for player recruitment, and we are currently 4 players short going into the first game of the season. The manager is on record saying this is the case. I haven't just blamed DB, I've said over and over again that I believe the club should conduct a full review of the player recruitment strategy (DB, his team, budgets, etc. etc.).

You have laid the blame at David Burke's door by repeatedly stating that he is ultimately responsible, without considering that the issues may well lay outside his team's sphere of influence and responsibility, What makes you think they haven't reviewed their methods - and don't look at it repeatedly? It's merely your assumption to believe they haven't. Just because it isn't operating to your satisfaction, it doesn't follow they don't persistently look at their methods.

I called people who supported Gus (who was sacked for gross misconduct) over Tony and the board traitors. Still holds true for me.

Which only highlights your sense of self-importance. You are also wrong; you called anyone who questioned the board a 'traitor'. Not that you have the right to do so; that's none of your business. Backtracking now doesn't enhance your argument.

Facts and logic. Something you fail to recognise and something you apparently lack. Or maybe not, maybe you're just towing the club line for some other reason. TBH I don't think you're that stupid.

I haven't towed any party line. I've merely questioned your petulant self-aggrandising - another thing which doesn't enhance your (non) argument - and what the root of it is, aside from the banal 'facts and logic', as if that phrase has any meaning.

I don't know how they exactly operate on a day-to-day basis, nor do I know exactly where the issues lie. But, by automatically putting the issues at David Burke's door by repeatedly stating it's his responsibility, it appears you seemingly do. You're also telling them exactly what they should do, further enhancing your claim of knowing exactly where the problems lie.

The 'facts' you have are the results, not the means. Seeing as you don't know the means, you're not in a position to tell them what to do. But then, everyone else knew that. Except you, it would appear.

 

[Eeyore]

The local Green Party must be breathing a large sigh of relief knowing that David Burke is now being blamed for everything.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

Last seasons transfer windows, both summer and winter, were extremely poor. This one isn't looking any better, it's likely to be considerably worse, despite having a larger budget.

It's difficult not to blame Burke for this, as fans we are led to believe this is the guy responsible for player recruitment - but obviously we don't know the full circumstances of which he works. There is a chance that our scouting network isn't up to scratch, but signing the likes of Agustein, Andrews, Obika and so on is inexcusable considering any one with access to the internet could have told you they would be failures. We simply seem to be poor at identifying talent, this needs to change if we are going to be a progressive club.

You're right....as proved with the signing of Ulloa...who we sold on for £8m....I mean,...we never seem to find the diamond to make money do we...from Peter Ward...Bobby Zamora....Ulloa...when will this club sign a decent player....Maybe Gary Stevens Adam Virgo were not worth selling either...Maybe some of the JCLs want to panic because everything to them is instant...What do we want....we want it now attitude.
I'm very happy to wait for the big move up...it will come on a solid basis. When we had our glory team of 79/80 we were spending money like there was no tomorrow...it didn't last as there was no solid basis...with a large wage structure,small gates,no backing from Stadium leasing,eventually we were going to lose money....we did and the club almost ceased to exist. I trust Tony Bloom and his team to take us up and give the club the glory it needs.......today....tomorrow...or whenever,I know when we do it will be on a substainable basis. Feel free to slag off my views if you want,you are entitled to you point of view....but at least...have a little faith in a man who has spent millions in trying to achieve OUR dream of a Premiership club.
Over the years I have spent thousands supporting Albion...Tony,through his wealth has spent many times more....reflect on how much you have a spent....be you a JCL...(We all have to start sometime)...or somebody who has being going for years...we are all after the same result...god,the vodka bottle is empty already...goodnight fellow Albion fans....get behind the team and Sami this Saturday...get them off to a good start...but it's not the end of the world if we don't.

 

[LamieRobertson]

You have laid the blame at David Burke's door by repeatedly stating that he is ultimately responsible, without considering that the issues may well lay outside his team's sphere of influence and responsibility, What makes you think they haven't reviewed their methods - and don't look at it repeatedly? It's merely your assumption to believe they haven't. Just because it isn't operating to your satisfaction, it doesn't follow they don't persistently look at their methods.



Which only highlights your sense of self-importance. You are also wrong; you called anyone who questioned the board a 'traitor'. Not that you have the right to do so; that's none of your business. Backtracking now doesn't enhance your argument.



I haven't towed any party line. I've merely questioned your petulant self-aggrandising ]- another thing which doesn't enhance your (non) argument - and what the root of it is, aside from the banal 'facts and logic', as if that phrase has any meaning.

I don't know how they exactly operate on a day-to-day basis, nor do I know exactly where the issues lie. But, by automatically putting the issues at David Burke's door by repeatedly stating it's his responsibility, it appears you seemingly do. You're also telling them exactly what they should do, further enhancing your claim of knowing exactly where the problems lie.

The 'facts' you have are the results, not the means. Seeing as you don't know the means, you're not in a position to tell them what to do. But then, everyone else knew that. Except you, it would appear.

term of the day

 

[Seagull on the wing]

Because back in the day manager A said to his chairman 'I want player x'.
Chairman A spoke to chairman B and a deal either was or wasn't sorted.

The worst it ever got was if manager A really really wanted player x, he'd have to start handing envelopes of cash around, until player x signed, when 'everybody' was happy.


Howard Wilkinson phoned Sir Alex with a ridiculous offer for Dennis Irvin.
Naturally he was told to shove it.
But before Fergie put the phone down he said 'but I will take Cantona off your hands'.

Bish bosh job done inside a week.

Can you even begin to imagine that happening today.
Agents, lawyers, contracts, image rights, sponsorship deals, add ons, bonuses and on and on.

That's why every club has a David Burke, because a manger just couldn't do it.

Got to admit.....Stat brother is talking sense...

 

[AZ Gull]

I don't honestly understand what DB does - with TB holding the money, and Sami identifying the players that he wants, I don't understand how a club that's stridently adhering to FFP can legitimately have a Head of Footballing Operations?

Who do you think manages the database of potential signings? Who do you think is responsible for identifying, and recruiting, players for the development squad (and youth team - does the name Luis Garcia ring any bells?). Who do you think coordinates the scouting network? Who do you think played a massive part in earning our brand new training centre the highest grade in the whole country [yes, it bears repeating, the highest grade in the whole country]?

If you don't know what David Burke does, you really aren't paying attention.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Clubs like ours can't afford to have a new manager every 1-2 seasons buying a whole new set of players that the manager wants - these days the club have a team that negotiates to buy players that the board think will fit in with the clubs wage structure and playing style. The manager has to work with the existing squad and let the team have targets that will fit in with the existing squad and slowly mould the squad with a set of players that he can call his team.

The benefit of this is that if the manager goes the club can keep dealing whilst a new manager is found, the downside being it needs a manager to be around for a few season for it to work!

 

[portslade seagull]

I can only presume that they communicate - if a player that Burke recommends doesn't fit into Sami's plans then they don't get pursued. I think Bozza mentioned (or someone else) that Burke had given Oscar a list of great players he was able to get but Oscar turned them all down. I don't think they just work completely separate with each other - i'd presume that there's near daily conversations between them. I don't know for certain, but then none of us here do!

Great players according to Burke that is and his track record is sometimes lacking. Maybe you know who they eere or are just summising on the back of a whisper heard which was not necessarily true

 

[Rookie]

The local Green Party must be breathing a large sigh of relief knowing that David Burke is now being blamed for everything.

Being wrongly blamed by some who seemingly don't understand what his job actually is or entails despite being told constantly.

 

[Stat Brother]

Being wrongly blamed by some who seemingly don't understand what his job actually is or entails despite being told constantly.

All the while refusing to 'blame' the only person who is responsible for their perceived incompetence, that being Mr Tony Bloom.