Dalian Atkinson dies after police tasering...

[Shropshire Seagull]

As per above, murder must have intent - i.e. the police officer must have known the taser would kill ...
I'm beginning to suspect that there was more went on in this incident, taser used, yes, but some afters that only eye-witnesses could have seen that makes this more than just accidental murder aka manslaughter.

If it's in Telford's Crown Court, might try and get along to have a listen-in - maybe too big a case and will go to Brum ....

I think all plod carry a batten [truncheon], but fewer have tasers and only the elite have firearms.

If a taser is now to be badged as a lethal weapon, why not the batten too?

 

[blue-shifted]

As per above, murder must have intent - i.e. the police officer must have known the taser would kill ...
I'm beginning to suspect that there was more went on in this incident, taser used, yes, but some afters that only eye-witnesses could have seen that makes this more than just accidental murder aka manslaughter.

If it's in Telford's Crown Court, might try and get along to have a listen-in - maybe too big a case and will go to Brum ....

I think all plod carry a batten [truncheon], but fewer have tasers and only the elite have firearms.

If a taser is now to be badged as a lethal weapon, why not the batten too?

Been years since I did this, but I'm pretty sure there doesn't have to be intent to kill, just intent to harm. So If I punch someone, clearly meaning to harm them a bit, but they fall badly and die, that's murder.

So I'm taking from that the officer is accused of using his taser outside it's normal use to try to harm Dalian. Unluckily for both, he had an unforeseen reaction to it, or fell badly

 

[Thunder Bolt]

As per above, murder must have intent - i.e. the police officer must have known the taser would kill ...
I'm beginning to suspect that there was more went on in this incident, taser used, yes, but some afters that only eye-witnesses could have seen that makes this more than just accidental murder aka manslaughter.

If it's in Telford's Crown Court, might try and get along to have a listen-in - maybe too big a case and will go to Brum ....

I think all plod carry a batten [truncheon], but fewer have tasers and only the elite have firearms.

If a taser is now to be badged as a lethal weapon, why not the batten too?

Police would not appear in court in their own county for fairly obvious reasons.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Police would not appear in court in their own county for fairly obvious reasons.

Wrong - they already have appeared in court - read here - and been bailed.

CPS has not named them yet for your "fairly obvious reasons" but even this is to be reviewed at a separate hearing next week.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Been years since I did this, but I'm pretty sure there doesn't have to be intent to kill, just intent to harm. So If I punch someone, clearly meaning to harm them a bit, but they fall badly and die, that's murder.

So I'm taking from that the officer is accused of using his taser outside it's normal use to try to harm Dalian. Unluckily for both, he had an unforeseen reaction to it, or fell badly

I'm waiting for them to say they wouldn't have done it if the had realised who he was

Presumably their brief is trying to work out an alternative excuse . . . . .

Can you imagine the outcry if National Treasure, Paul Gascoigne had been tazered when he turned up offering to go fishing with Ralph Moat?

 

[vegster]

I'm waiting for them to say they wouldn't have done it if the had realised who he was

Presumably their brief is trying to work out an alternative excuse . . . . .

Can you imagine the outcry if National Treasure, Paul Gascoigne had been tazered when he turned up offering to go fishing with Ralph Moat?

Much as I have sympathy for the flak the police receive day to day and usually doing a pretty good job..... I find it hard to comprehend how the huge numbers of people who have died in police " Custody " have not been " unlawfully killed " in coroner's reports. Time and time again we hear of these " tragedies" and there is much shaking of collective heads about how this should not happen yet no one actually gets charged .

 

[lawros left foot]

Been years since I did this, but I'm pretty sure there doesn't have to be intent to kill, just intent to harm. So If I punch someone, clearly meaning to harm them a bit, but they fall badly and die, that's murder.

So I'm taking from that the officer is accused of using his taser outside it's normal use to try to harm Dalian. Unluckily for both, he had an unforeseen reaction to it, or fell badly

My cousin was involved in an incident where he punched a bloke once, the man fell,hit his head on the kerb and died of a brain injury. My cousin was charged with manslaughter, and did 6 years

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Wrong - they already have appeared in court - read here - and been bailed.

CPS has not named them yet for your "fairly obvious reasons" but even this is to be reviewed at a separate hearing next week.

That article says Birmingham magistrates court and Birmingham Crown court. They are not the same police force, as that would be West Midlands area.

Sussex police are tried in Kent, and Hampshire police are tried in Sussex as a general rule. Sometimes sent to Surrey depending on volume of court work.

 

[drew]

Been years since I did this, but I'm pretty sure there doesn't have to be intent to kill, just intent to harm. So If I punch someone, clearly meaning to harm them a bit, but they fall badly and die, that's murder.

So I'm taking from that the officer is accused of using his taser outside it's normal use to try to harm Dalian. Unluckily for both, he had an unforeseen reaction to it, or fell badly

For the benefit of doubt, here is the definition from the CPS guidance

Murder
Introduction
Subject to three exceptions (see Voluntary Manslaughter below) the crime of murder is committed, where a person:

Of sound mind and discretion (i.e. sane);
unlawfully kills (i.e. not self-defence or other justified killing);
any reasonable creature (human being);
in being (born alive and breathing through its own lungs - Rance v Mid-Downs Health Authority (1991) 1 All ER 801 and AG Ref No 3 of 1994 (1997) 3 All ER 936;
under the Queen's Peace (not in war-time);
with intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm (GBH).

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-and-manslaughter

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

Fair enough - but if using a taser counts as 'intent to cause GBH' then they couldn't be used any more - like I said, there must be something more to this than meets the eye.

Any use of force must be reasonable and proportionate. I've seen officers tactically strike (punch) people which was justifiable under the circumstances. Using a taser cannot simply amount to intent to cause GBH in itself. Tasering someone when they are already handcuffed for instance might, or tasering the person more times than is necessary could.

In the same vein, a firearms officer who shoots an armed criminal once, causing them to drop the weapon they are holding would bu justifiable. Waiting 5 seconds and shooting them again after they have dropped the weapon wouldn't be.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Americans must be wondering what all the fuss is about.

 

[Easy 10]

My cousin was involved in an incident where he punched a bloke once, the man fell,hit his head on the kerb and died of a brain injury. My cousin was charged with manslaughter, and did 6 years

Last night on The Met: Policing London there was a case where a guy assaulted someone on a bus and kicked him into a coma. He was arrested and charged with GBH, which was then changed to murder when the victim died in hospital a few weeks later of his injuries. The jury found him guilty of murder, and he got 19 years.

Intent seems to be a bit of a grey area. It was a chance meeting on the bus - he claims he recognised the victim when he got on the bus as someone who'd previously burgled his house. So he didn't actually set out to kill him, it wasn't pre-meditated. I guess the viciousness of the attack (all on CCTV) persuaded the jury that murder could be the only verdict.

By the sounds of it your cousin had no intent to kill either, so got off on the lesser charge. But its never cut and dried, it seems.

 

[Cromber]

And what about independent anti-abuse organizations like AAAPPP - could they really manage to appeal to the court? Is it worth it?

 

[Is it PotG?]

https://news.sky.com/story/dalian-atkinson-pc-tasered-ex-aston-villa-footballer-for-six-times-longer-than-standard-jury-told-12296596

 

[aolstudios]

https://news.sky.com/story/dalian-atkinson-pc-tasered-ex-aston-villa-footballer-for-six-times-longer-than-standard-jury-told-12296596

View attachment 136339

& the copper left the imprint of his bootlace on two parts of DA's head, after kicking him...

 

[Eric Potts]

Verdict : Murder

 

[blue-shifted]

https://news.sky.com/story/dalian-atkinson-pc-tasered-ex-aston-villa-footballer-for-six-times-longer-than-standard-jury-told-12296596

View attachment 136339

Very very unsurprising

 

[Eric Potts]

My mistake : verdict not yet in - got an ambiguous text alert

 

[cjd]

Almost 5 years to bring this matter to court.?


Why ?

 

[blue-shifted]

Bet the coppers couldn't believe their bad luck when it turned out to be someone famous