[Albion] Dale Stephens

[Ninja Elephant]

I don’t think a team in a relegation fight can realistically play attacking players in central midfield in our formation. Hughton is actually being quite bold by having FOUR out and out attacking players in his starting eleven every game so far. Picking any more in a team that is going to be under pressure a lot of the time would be reckless. In a 4-2-3-1 the two have to sit back and shield the defence. No more than that.

I think the formation is fine, it's the balance that concerns me. I like Pröpper and Stephens, they're settling into a decent rhythm but I don't think they're offering enough going forward and it's why we're struggling to create chances and score goals. I think we're too negatively set up to score the numbers of goals we need to win games. I don't think Stephens or Pröpper have contributed an assist so far, and that's just not good enough if we want to survive.

At the moment, I think we're going to get to the final 10 games with about 1 point a game on average and then we're going to play the better teams and end up being relegated because we weren't able to take enough points from the games which really matter. Murray didn't get a shot off today, that's the big concern for me. We created NOTHING for him and we're really relying on Gross, March and Knockaert to do ALL the creating. It's doomed to fail.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I think the formation is fine, it's the balance that concerns me. I like Pröpper and Stephens, they're settling into a decent rhythm but I don't think they're offering enough going forward and it's why we're struggling to create chances and score goals. I think we're too negatively set up to score the numbers of goals we need to win games. I don't think Stephens or Pröpper have contributed an assist so far, and that's just not good enough if we want to survive.

At the moment, I think we're going to get to the final 10 games with about 1 point a game on average and then we're going to play the better teams and end up being relegated because we weren't able to take enough points from the games which really matter. Murray didn't get a shot off today, that's the big concern for me. We created NOTHING for him and we're really relying on Gross, March and Knockaert to do ALL the creating. It's doomed to fail.

nah

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I see what you’re saying, but I think Hughton has been let down in not getting a PL striker in and he has to pick a game plan to suit what he has available. There is no point in us ‘going for it’ and getting involved in free flowing, open matches with chances at both ends. The reason? Well every single other team in the league has better, more clinical strikers than us so we would be outscored and lose the majority of matches. I think he’s aware that we don’t have the strikers required to score lots of goals so being defensively tight and keeping a rigid shape is essential to ensure we stay in every game. Having four organised defenders and two sitting midfielders gives us that. It’s then up to the four in front to create and score.

Let’s compare us to a top team with a similar set up. I would say the top six side most like us is Spurs. They have four at the back, two in midfield, three attackers (Alli, Eriksen and Son, who admittedly play a bit narrower than ours) and Kane upfront. Their two in midfield are Dier and one of Dembele, Wanyama or Winks. There isn’t much creativity or flair in that. So if Spurs, under a top class manager, think the right balance in this formation is to have a two who sit in front of the defence, I can’t blame Hughton for doing the same. Especially when he’s managing a team that will spend a lot more time under the cosh than Spurs do.

I don't know, I don't think Murray and Hemed are comparable to the best in the league but they'll put chances away if we create some for them. We're not spending enough time in the penalty area to get the best out of them and today Murray was working almost entirely alone the whole time. Him being offside every few seconds in the first half was nobody's fault. I think my point that Stephens and Pröpper can reasonably be expected to contribute in attack is fair, whatever we want to say about formation, tactics etc.

At the moment we defend as a team magnificently, and we will all season bar the occasional mishap I'm sure. We're not attacking as a team though, others need to do more. The 4 attacking positions should not have to carry the whole burden, you need others to chip in. I'm not sure the Spurs comparison adds much value because your team is only as good as the sum of all parts and Kane alone means you don't have to worry too much about what's behind him. He'll score goals with no service at all, we don't have that luxury.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Game of two halves for Dale: without the ball he was brilliant. With the ball he was wasteful to say the least.

 

[Davemania]

Game of two halves for Dale: without the ball he was brilliant. With the ball he was wasteful to say the least.

They all are guilty at times of being wasteful in possession because they are being harried and harrassed so quickly in the prem. It's a learning curve for everyone. The passion and desire is there though and they have improving all the time

 

[crookie]

Gave the ball away cheaply several times but won plenty of tackles too. My concern is that he rarely looks for a quick forward pass

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[Mike Small]

Gave the ball away cheaply several times but won plenty of tackles too. My concern is that he rarely looks for a quick forward pass

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Agree with that. The benefit of keeping it by playing it back might be that we get to keep the ball a bit and alleviate any pressure.

 

[OzMike]

Hard to see why he is not as effective as last season, is it the style of play ?
What has changed, apart from promotion that is.

 

[OzMike]

We still pas back an awful lot when there is an option to pass forward.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

I guess it depends what you're looking for/expecting from him.

I thought he had a good game. For me he's in the team to protect the back four more than he is to create and in that he did a great job. He was always in the right place at the right time to break up play and deny Everton space.. He wasn't particularly inspired on the ball but he rarely is. For the role he does defensively I can live with that.

It seems to me that he is one of those players you never fully appreciate until he's not there.

 

[HastingsSeagull]

They give cheap balls away as it's such a different game in the prem. Less time on the ball and better players.

They'll get there around Xmas I'm sure and I like the fact we have a settled squad and are building a strong core of players. DS isn't as dominant as previous years but that's to be expected and if he keeps working hard he'll build into an average Prem player (which would be very useful for us if we want to finish mid table and thus top of the non-big-6/7).

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Defensively I thought he was very good. With the ball however, I thought he was very suspect and put us under pressure more times than his defensive work saved us.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Good partnership with DP...Beram is going to have a battle on his hands to get back in off they continue with there current rate of progress

Beram has become an injury prone fringe player at the moment. Not actually sure he'll start a game in the Prem this season.

 

[The Sock of Poskett]

I don't think Stephens or Pröpper have contributed an assist so far, and that's just not good enough if we want to survive.

Take your general point but Dale set up Tomer for the winner v Newcastle, unless my memory's playing tricks on me? I'm confident we'll see assists and some goals from the pair of them as the season progresses.

 

[Commander]

Seems like I watched a different game. I thought he looked a bit lost. Couple of decent touches but apart from that nowhere near the required standard.

We don’t seem to have enough physicality in midfield. Nobody can pick the ball up and drive forward, like we should be doing at home.


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[boik]

Hard to see why he is not as effective as last season, is it the style of play ?
What has changed, apart from promotion that is.

That made me laugh! Do you seriously think that the rise in quality of the opposition is so insignificant?

 

[OzMike]

That made me laugh! Do you seriously think that the rise in quality of the opposition is so insignificant?

Glad you found the humour.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

So what can Hughton do to make us more attacking in this formation? It’s only really either committing Stephens or Propper forward or instructing the full backs to bomb forward. This might make us more likely to score (although not massively so in my opinion as we would still be relying on Championship level forwards to put it in the net), but it would almost certainly leave us more vulnerable at the back and exposed to quick breaks, which every team in the PL is capable of. Everton’s goal today came from a break after we pushed too many men up the pitch.

I think he’s got the balance right and I would say the Spurs comparison is relevant because they are the best team in this country to play a similar formation to us and even they have two defensive midfielders. With our lack of firepower, the first half of this season is all about scrapping to get 18 points on the board by Christmas to give us a chance in 2018. And I think our best chance of points is 0-0, 1-1 and 1-0 type games.

Honestly, I think he can encourage the players to be more offensive. Encourage Pröpper to drive forward from midfield and get much further forward to support Gross and Murray, plus giving the wingers more options for people to hit when putting crosses into the box. Of course there are possible downsides defensively and your point is ultimately the reason why we do what we do. Norwich fans aren't wrong about Hughton's tactics, they are very negative and defensive, safety first. It's served us very well and I'm not complaining, we're competitive in every game but lacking that cutting edge. Also, in Hughton's defence, he is without both Kayal and Sidwell who would offer us something different. He doesn't have the choice to change it up at the moment.