Dale Stephens Summer 2016 shenanigans (Merged Thread)

[Herr Tubthumper]

How was it different.....was it played underwater or on horseback? I thought the whole idea of the sport, since its inception, was to kick the ball between the goalposts more times than the opposition. I agree with your earlier point re fitness but you state that the game is now far more advanced technically. There are certain basic skillsets in football......
1) Close control.
I see no evidence that control of the ball is any better, generally, than in previous times. I still see top players failing to keep control and using a ' heavy ' first touch. Dribbling is almost a lost art apart from rare exceptions like Messi. The art of heading has definitely declined. Players used to be able to ' hang ' in the air before heading the ball. Present football is riddled with poor heading. Use of the chest to control the ball is much less prevalent these days and crossing, generally, is woeful.
2) Shooting.
No better, no worse than its ever been. Good exponents, bad exponents.
3) Passing.
Most of the great passers of the ball...Haynes, Hoddle etc have long since hung up their boots. How many players do we talk about today as being great passers?
4) Running off the ball.
No better, no worse. Down to innate footballing intelligence.
5) Goalkeeping.
Difficult to compare. Keepers are, on average, much bigger now, which should give them an advantage. But does it make them more agile, more supple, or more quicker?

Your comments re 1966 are laughable and naive. You denigrate some of the greats of English football and state that, compared to today, its a poor standard. Did you actually watch England in the Euro's? How can you compare Moore, Charlton, Banks, Peters and Wilson with Cahill, Rooney, Sterling, Hart and Kane. These were world class players. Have you watched Brazil play in the 1970 World Cup? The single greatest and most exciting international side of all time. Watch their game with England ( played in 100 degree heat ) Watch how comfortable all the players are on the ball. Watch the first touch. See how easily they beat players. Top quality football, played by top quality footballers. A million light years away from the sort of garbage we watch England produce now at international level.
You obviously didn't watch football 30/40/50/60 years ago and your informed opinion is based on grainy black and white pictures, heresay, and an obsession with post PL football. In the pursuit of all things scientific, football is in danger of overcomplicating itself and losing sight of the basics. Players from yesteryear, with todays fitness regimes, better pitches, lighter kit and ball, would have thrived. By disregarding and disrespecting the past you are failing to understand the development of the game. Don't get seduced into thinking that no-one thought deeply about the game before 1992. From the 1920's onwards there have been brilliant and innovative tacticians all over the world.
Football, years ago, demanded more skill ,not less. A heavy, sodden leather ball. Heavy energy sapping pitches. Brutal tackling. Less protection. Yet artists still flourished...Puskas, Di Stefano, Schiaffino, Matthews, Finney, Best, Johnstone, Greaves, Baxter, Garrincha, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona and Platini. If you want to talk about technically gifted, you don't have to look any further than this.

I'm certain Mark Farringon was under water when he played for us. That aside a great post.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

....So you're suggesting footballers......aren't fitter? Or more technically gifted?

I watched 1966 World Cup final recently, the full game - it was f***ing woeful. The standard of first touches, movement, speed of play was about League One nowadays.

In certain attributes I don't think players have really changed, in others they have changed MASSIVELY.

I always thought you were one of the more intelligent posters.

 

[Brighton Mod]

I always thought you were one of the more intelligent posters.

I watched the England v Brazil game from 1970 played at altitude, a game we should have won. Our control of the game , the ball and the skill level surpassed that of the Brazilians. Francis Lee who managed to kick their goalkeeper in the head was 'sorted out' by their centre backs, but the skill level was as high as we are seeing generally at the moment. West Ham last night were woeful and we currently do not have a player that is anywhere near the skill level of Peter Ward.

 

[Brighton Mod]

How was it different.....was it played underwater or on horseback? I thought the whole idea of the sport, since its inception, was to kick the ball between the goalposts more times than the opposition. I agree with your earlier point re fitness but you state that the game is now far more advanced technically. There are certain basic skillsets in football......
1) Close control.
I see no evidence that control of the ball is any better, generally, than in previous times. I still see top players failing to keep control and using a ' heavy ' first touch. Dribbling is almost a lost art apart from rare exceptions like Messi. The art of heading has definitely declined. Players used to be able to ' hang ' in the air before heading the ball. Present football is riddled with poor heading. Use of the chest to control the ball is much less prevalent these days and crossing, generally, is woeful.
2) Shooting.
No better, no worse than its ever been. Good exponents, bad exponents.
3) Passing.
Most of the great passers of the ball...Haynes, Hoddle etc have long since hung up their boots. How many players do we talk about today as being great passers?
4) Running off the ball.
No better, no worse. Down to innate footballing intelligence.
5) Goalkeeping.
Difficult to compare. Keepers are, on average, much bigger now, which should give them an advantage. But does it make them more agile, more supple, or more quicker?

Your comments re 1966 are laughable and naive. You denigrate some of the greats of English football and state that, compared to today, its a poor standard. Did you actually watch England in the Euro's? How can you compare Moore, Charlton, Banks, Peters and Wilson with Cahill, Rooney, Sterling, Hart and Kane. These were world class players. Have you watched Brazil play in the 1970 World Cup? The single greatest and most exciting international side of all time. Watch their game with England ( played in 100 degree heat ) Watch how comfortable all the players are on the ball. Watch the first touch. See how easily they beat players. Top quality football, played by top quality footballers. A million light years away from the sort of garbage we watch England produce now at international level.
You obviously didn't watch football 30/40/50/60 years ago and your informed opinion is based on grainy black and white pictures, heresay, and an obsession with post PL football. In the pursuit of all things scientific, football is in danger of overcomplicating itself and losing sight of the basics. Players from yesteryear, with todays fitness regimes, better pitches, lighter kit and ball, would have thrived. By disregarding and disrespecting the past you are failing to understand the development of the game. Don't get seduced into thinking that no-one thought deeply about the game before 1992. From the 1920's onwards there have been brilliant and innovative tacticians all over the world.
Football, years ago, demanded more skill ,not less. A heavy, sodden leather ball. Heavy energy sapping pitches. Brutal tackling. Less protection. Yet artists still flourished...Puskas, Di Stefano, Schiaffino, Matthews, Finney, Best, Johnstone, Greaves, Baxter, Garrincha, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona and Platini. If you want to talk about technically gifted, you don't have to look any further than this.

Top post and one not taken in by the media driven, second by second hype that our sports channels and the internet bring us. The game we watch and watched is about getting that ball between the posts within the rules, it hasn't changed that much. How many quick players do we see in the modern game, where are the quick central defenders and how many players are confident enough to outwit and pass an opponent whilst on the ball. The only time Peter Ward went down was when he was in the box, otherwise he would be kicked, pushed, shoved but he kept on his feet and scored lots of goals. Lets compare him with our modern speedy wingers such as our own Lua Lua, no comparison. Your post says it all.

 

[GT49er]

How was it different.............

You ask the question - but two quotes from your post sum up exactly how it was different!

"Players from yesteryear, with todays fitness regimes, better pitches, lighter kit and ball, would have thrived."

"A heavy, sodden leather ball. Heavy energy sapping pitches. Brutal tackling. Less protection."

I do concur with a lot of your comments, though. Football certainly didn't begin with the PL!

 

[Icy Gull]

I watched the England v Brazil game from 1970 played at altitude, a game we should have won. Our control of the game , the ball and the skill level surpassed that of the Brazilians. Francis Lee who managed to kick their goalkeeper in the head was 'sorted out' by their centre backs, but the skill level was as high as we are seeing generally at the moment. West Ham last night were woeful and we currently do not have a player that is anywhere near the skill level of Peter Ward.

I think Knocky has the same ability to thrill that Ward had

 

[perseus]

Agreed, but say he's on say £12k here and he's offered £15, or even £18k, that's £6k per week, or nearly a £1m over three yeas, I might uproot the kids for that?

Don't forget the promotion bonuses and relegation reductions. Could actually be worse off after 3 years and stuck with a long contract with a Championship side at the peak of his career.

 

[pottert]

We are a better team with DS in it.
If he will not sign a new contract then so be it.
What he should be thinking is that come the end of the season I can go anywhere I like so it's down to me to
Play well this season to attract as many clubs as possible of my ability.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I always thought you were one of the more intelligent posters.[/QUOTE

No [MENTION=12101]Mellotron[/MENTION] is right. The 66 world cup was woeful. I watched Burton tonight. It was a far better standard.

Today, we don't have teams at any level where most of them smoke, and drink the night before. An eat crap food.

Back when the laws allowed tackles from behind, etc, the only reason there was not more injuries was the players were too unfit to cause much injury. Today with the old laws it would be 7 v 7 before half time . . . and the St John's having counselling after.

ps what has this to do with Stephens?

 

[Triggaaar]

ps what has this to do with Stephens?

We didn't get promoted because Gaston didn't have shin pads.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

We didn't get promoted because Gaston didn't have shin pads.

And, good night

 

[Easy 10]

This absolutely stinks of Bridcutt. Not a direct "downing of tools" but this nauseating notion of "my heads not in the right place boss" resulting in him being excluded from the squad again just macks me RIGHT off. Then we're fed some shit about him running around cones in Lancing on a crucial matchday, as if we're supposed to think "yeah great, he's really getting super-fit for us next week". Do me a lemon. I expect Dale's head is CERTAINLY in the right place when he arrives at an ATM to punch in his pin and extract another chunk of his £9k a week courtesy of you, me and BHAFC. He'll manage THAT alright, won't he. Heads in the perfect place to draw a wage he's not currently earning.

Fvcking footballers. Paid a kings ransom every pissing week, and yet they STILL get to pull this shit and cry off whenever they get a sniff of another big cash bonanza. We're paying this mug to play for BHAFC and help us win some points. If he can't be arsed any more then the sooner he chases his wallet up the M1 to the ginger dalek the better as far as I'm concerned. What a prick he turned out to be.

 

[LlcoolJ]

This absolutely stinks of Bridcutt. Not a direct "downing of tools" but this nauseating notion of "my heads not in the right place boss" resulting in him being excluded from the squad again just macks me RIGHT off. Then we're fed some shit about him running around cones in Lancing on a crucial matchday, as if we're supposed to think "yeah great, he's really getting super-fit for us next week". Do me a lemon. I expect Dale's head is CERTAINLY in the right place when he arrives at an ATM to punch in his pin and extract another chunk of his £9k a week courtesy of you, me and BHAFC. He'll manage THAT alright, won't he. Heads in the perfect place to draw a wage he's not currently earning.

Fvcking footballers. Paid a kings ransom every pissing week, and yet they STILL get to pull this shit and cry off whenever they get a sniff of another big cash bonanza. We're paying this mug to play for BHAFC and help us win some points. If he can't be arsed any more then the sooner he chases his wallet up the M1 to the ginger dalek the better as far as I'm concerned. What a prick he turned out to be.

Have another glass and watch some naked women or something. It's not worth getting angry about when you don't even know what "it" actually is. Or isn't.

 

[LlcoolJ]

You ask the question - but two quotes from your post sum up exactly how it was different!

"Players from yesteryear, with todays fitness regimes, better pitches, lighter kit and ball, would have thrived."

"A heavy, sodden leather ball. Heavy energy sapping pitches. Brutal tackling. Less protection."

I do concur with a lot of your comments, though. Football certainly didn't begin with the PL!

"Old foot-ball was rubbish but not as rubb-ish as Andy Cole....." #FFL

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Have another glass and watch some naked women or something. It's not worth getting angry about when you don't even know what "it" actually is. Or isn't.

Agreed, but I do understand the frustration from Easy10.

 

[OzMike]

This absolutely stinks of Bridcutt. Not a direct "downing of tools" but this nauseating notion of "my heads not in the right place boss" resulting in him being excluded from the squad again just macks me RIGHT off. Then we're fed some shit about him running around cones in Lancing on a crucial matchday, as if we're supposed to think "yeah great, he's really getting super-fit for us next week". Do me a lemon. I expect Dale's head is CERTAINLY in the right place when he arrives at an ATM to punch in his pin and extract another chunk of his £9k a week courtesy of you, me and BHAFC. He'll manage THAT alright, won't he. Heads in the perfect place to draw a wage he's not currently earning.

Fvcking footballers. Paid a kings ransom every pissing week, and yet they STILL get to pull this shit and cry off whenever they get a sniff of another big cash bonanza. We're paying this mug to play for BHAFC and help us win some points. If he can't be arsed any more then the sooner he chases his wallet up the M1 to the ginger dalek the better as far as I'm concerned. What a prick he turned out to be.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Hampster Gull]

This absolutely stinks of Bridcutt. Not a direct "downing of tools" but this nauseating notion of "my heads not in the right place boss" resulting in him being excluded from the squad again just macks me RIGHT off. Then we're fed some shit about him running around cones in Lancing on a crucial matchday, as if we're supposed to think "yeah great, he's really getting super-fit for us next week". Do me a lemon. I expect Dale's head is CERTAINLY in the right place when he arrives at an ATM to punch in his pin and extract another chunk of his £9k a week courtesy of you, me and BHAFC. He'll manage THAT alright, won't he. Heads in the perfect place to draw a wage he's not currently earning.

Fvcking footballers. Paid a kings ransom every pissing week, and yet they STILL get to pull this shit and cry off whenever they get a sniff of another big cash bonanza. We're paying this mug to play for BHAFC and help us win some points. If he can't be arsed any more then the sooner he chases his wallet up the M1 to the ginger dalek the better as far as I'm concerned. What a prick he turned out to be.

Yep

 

[Mr Bridger]

This absolutely stinks of Bridcutt. Not a direct "downing of tools" but this nauseating notion of "my heads not in the right place boss" resulting in him being excluded from the squad again just macks me RIGHT off. Then we're fed some shit about him running around cones in Lancing on a crucial matchday, as if we're supposed to think "yeah great, he's really getting super-fit for us next week". Do me a lemon. I expect Dale's head is CERTAINLY in the right place when he arrives at an ATM to punch in his pin and extract another chunk of his £9k a week courtesy of you, me and BHAFC. He'll manage THAT alright, won't he. Heads in the perfect place to draw a wage he's not currently earning.

Fvcking footballers. Paid a kings ransom every pissing week, and yet they STILL get to pull this shit and cry off whenever they get a sniff of another big cash bonanza. We're paying this mug to play for BHAFC and help us win some points. If he can't be arsed any more then the sooner he chases his wallet up the M1 to the ginger dalek the better as far as I'm concerned. What a prick he turned out to be.

Sums it up for me.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

This absolutely stinks of Bridcutt. Not a direct "downing of tools" but this nauseating notion of "my heads not in the right place boss" resulting in him being excluded from the squad again just macks me RIGHT off. Then we're fed some shit about him running around cones in Lancing on a crucial matchday, as if we're supposed to think "yeah great, he's really getting super-fit for us next week". Do me a lemon. I expect Dale's head is CERTAINLY in the right place when he arrives at an ATM to punch in his pin and extract another chunk of his £9k a week courtesy of you, me and BHAFC. He'll manage THAT alright, won't he. Heads in the perfect place to draw a wage he's not currently earning.

Fvcking footballers. Paid a kings ransom every pissing week, and yet they STILL get to pull this shit and cry off whenever they get a sniff of another big cash bonanza. We're paying this mug to play for BHAFC and help us win some points. If he can't be arsed any more then the sooner he chases his wallet up the M1 to the ginger dalek the better as far as I'm concerned. What a prick he turned out to be.

I hate the lack of professionalism in these types of circumstances (we don't know what has happened here btw), but it all seems ok if we are the beneficiaries of a "three own goals and a red card" player when the shoe is on the other foot who abouts he was totally distracted by the interest from the Albion.

And it does happen in all walks of life. I know people working their notice before going to another job who can't help but take their foot off the gas. It's subconscious. This is what CH spotted when Dale last played, and he won't risk playing him at the moment. Managers call is my best guess, not a strike a la Bridcutt.

 

[The Birdman]

If or when he goes I hope we pass which ever team he goes to.
That will be justice for our loyal players and fans and TB