Dale Stephens . . . either play him, or sell him..

[Icy Gull]

I normally find myself in agreement with much of what you post Icy. But you are happy to see us play in this division? Having supported this club for more years than I care to remember, I am getting desperate to see us play in the Premiership, not because I particularly like Premier League football, but because it is the pinnacle of what we can reach. Surely we have to have the ambition to reach the very top, or what else is there?

I have absolutely no problem staying in this division although the buzz of getting promoted would be fantastic and what you say is correct. I just can't get too wound up about it as I really do enjoy being up the top in this division. We will never reach the pinnacle though will we, although what Leicester did last season would suggest I may be wrong.

 

[Brighton Mod]

I think most of us would agree with that statement. Difficult to see how you can blame the board when the reason that striker didn't come was because his club refused to allow it.

Was Glen Murray the only striker in the world available? If we gave up because we couldn't get him then, it says it all about ambition and planing and then even eight months later, we still failed to identify and complete on a striker. Its really not good enough for a club that has ambition. Never mind at least we managed to keep DS for the bench ffs.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I have absolutely no problem staying in this division

Trouble is, you get a bit blase about staying in this division, and you only need to get it wrong once before you're dumped on your arse into League One. If Sami Hyypiä hadn't done the honourable thing and resigned, the club would most probably have sleepwalked slap bang into relegation.

 

[GT49er]

Was Glen Murray the only striker in the world available?

Clearly not, as he was not available at all. And I was only referring to events in last January's transfer window, as was clear from my post.





Ffs.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

I have absolutely no problem staying in this division although the buzz of getting promoted would be fantastic and what you say is correct. I just can't get too wound up about it as I really do enjoy being up the top in this division. We will never reach the pinnacle though will we, although what Leicester did last season would suggest I may be wrong.[/QUOTE

True, I love the hurly burly of the Champonship too, and the fact that any one team can so easily beat any other, makes it so competitive..

For at least one season before I die though, I'd so love to see us compete in the top division, even though it probably won't last!

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

trouble is, you get a bit blase about staying in this division, and you only need to get it wrong once before you're dumped on your arse into league one. If sami hyypiä hadn't done the honourable thing and resigned, the club would most probably have sleepwalked slap bang into relegation.

100% fact

 

[Ernest]

Trouble is, you get a bit blase about staying in this division, and you only need to get it wrong once before you're dumped on your arse into League One. If Sami Hyypiä hadn't done the honourable thing and resigned, the club would most probably have sleepwalked slap bang into relegation.

It's a lot easier to get dumped into League 1 than get promoted and as a lot of teams have found out just as hard to get back up

 

[Stat Brother]

No, I said he wasn't prepared to fund 7-9 million PLUS wages in excess of 30k+ per week, all IMO obviously. So up to 9 million PLUS a four year contract? So an additional 6 million plus in wages. So a goal outlay of over 13 million in all likelihood. I understand this is an obscene amount of money but without doing it we will not go up, again just IMO.

I questioned whether Pritchard would be able to command wages of 30k plus given his lack of any real experience apart from the Championship. So I suggest we wouldn't have been lumbered with wages of say someone like Vydra, if Pritchard had signed.

Just saying I think we'd be much better off if we had signed him , as we have no cover for Baldock and he would have at least given some competition. Baldock is the only player in the squad without competition, I quoted Vydra because he was available and Barber says we couldn't find any players to tempt here to improve the squad. I have no idea who else was available.

This is my line of thinking on the Ewan Chester thread.

With all this talk of obscene money I wondered why the goal posts didn't move, along the lines of:-

'FFS we just haven't got enough money for this BS, we're gonna have to sell someone'.

CJ can quote the pilchard money all he wants, but at the end of the day, it wasn't enough.
Sure that's hard for us real people to understand, but you only have to look at the AMEX era strikers thread to know the club has been off the pace on this, for years.


As right and proper as it is to hold the squad together that came so close to promotion.
Playing in a now stronger division with less firepower just doesn't make sense.

 

[BensGrandad]

As right and proper as it is to hold the squad together that came so close to promotion.
Playing in a now stronger division with less firepower just doesn't make sense.

Pre season I said that IMHO the 3 that came down even without parachute payments would fight out the 2 automatic and play off spots but they have all strengthened so I would think that they will be even more likely to get promoted. Nobody will get anywhere near to Newcatle and despite having a better squad than most Championship sides have added 2 proven strikers

 

[lancyclaret]

Surprised a Championship team did not take our Chris Long on loan. He scored 4 goals in 10 games when Brentford made the play-offs two seasons ago while on loan from Everton.

We bought him from Everton for £1 million last season but he didn't get a look-in due to Gray and Vokes.....he is currently on loan at League One Fleetwood and has scored 3 in 3 league games.

I'm not sure if the loan is to January or the whole season. Too late this season, but in hindsight maybe we should have tried to get Stephens for cash plus a striker or two. Apart from Long, we have sent £3 million Rouwen Hennings on loan to Fortuna Dusseldorf and Jutkiewicz to Birmingham on loan.

 

[chaileyjem]

With all this talk of obscene money I wondered why the goal posts didn't move, along the lines of:-
'FFS we just haven't got enough money for this BS, we're gonna have to sell someone'.

CJ can quote the pilchard money all he wants, but at the end of the day, it wasn't enough.

The club have always, like it or not, at the Amex, under Barber (instructed by Bloom) said they will stick to FFP, look for value in the transfer market and have said like other clubs they can't directly compete with Parachute payments clubs.

That still means they can afford to spend a fortune on fees, pay top 10 salaries, made a big bid for a striker this summer and expensively stuck to their plan of keeping the squad together. This cost millions in new contracts and potentially risking running down contracts of others. A fortune.

But for some reason thats all a front. What you really want them to say is...

- We have no money left because we didn't sell Dale Stephens and bought other players, even though the squad needed strengthening all over, eating into our transfer budget.
There was no striker budget after all. It was either all a lie or they're idiots and they're treating fans like morons.
- Hughton should come out and say he's been left in the lurch because obviously he didn't have multiple conversations with Barber/Bloom etc about this at any point along lines of i'm frustrated but confident with having 5 first choice wingers, the three strikers etc - lets wait until January.
- Clubs can take us for mugs and we'll spend anything to get the striker we want or more likely , get a striker Hughton doesn't want, even if it means busting our wage structure, FFP and the losses that Bloom has to fund.


COS ITS WORTH IT . Cos its the Premier League. And obviously Bloom is unaware of the riches on offer up there...

is this it ? Ok. Fine. Gotcha.

 

[Icy Gull]

The club have always, like it or not, at the Amex, under Barber (instructed by Bloom) said they will stick to FFP, look for value in the transfer market and have said like other clubs they can't directly compete with Parachute payments clubs.

That still means they can afford to spend a fortune on fees, pay top 10 salaries, made a big bid for a striker this summer and expensively stuck to their plan of keeping the squad together. This cost millions in new contracts and potentially risking running down contracts of others. A fortune.

But for some reason thats all a front. What you really want them to say is...

- We have no money left because we didn't sell Dale Stephens and bought other players, even though the squad needed strengthening all over, eating into our transfer budget.
There was no striker budget after all. It was either all a lie or they're idiots and they're treating fans like morons.
- Hughton should come out and say he's been left in the lurch because obviously he didn't have multiple conversations with Barber/Bloom etc about this at any point along lines of i'm frustrated but confident with having 5 first choice wingers, the three strikers etc - lets wait until January.
- Clubs can take us for mugs and we'll spend anything to get the striker we want or more likely , get a striker Hughton doesn't want, even if it means busting our wage structure, FFP and the losses that Bloom has to fund.


COS ITS WORTH IT . Cos its the Premier League. And obviously Bloom is unaware of the riches on offer up there...

is this it ? Ok. Fine. Gotcha.

Dress it up how you like, it APPEARS to some of us, that the club have failed to address the position that was the most pressing if we want to get automatic promotion. This is a recurring failure and has cost us before, so you can't be surprised that some of us think it's a shortcoming that the club could have been expected to solve after 6 years

Not only have we failed to solve it in the First team, we have been just as unsuccessful with the Undr 21s and under 23s, as far as I am aware there hasn't been a single striker worth mentioning that has come through the much vaunted development squad and that cannot have anything to do with FFP and other clubs pricing us out of the market, can it?

Have we even got anyone coming through who might make it, at whatever age?

 

[chaileyjem]

Dress it up how you like, it APPEARS to some of us, that the club have failed to address the position that was the most pressing if we want to get automatic promotion.

Yes. Agreed. But we're not having a debate here about whether 3 strikers, and 5 wingers is enough, whether this is short sighted and a risk. Or even if its other areas of the pitch that will secure promotion. I agree with you that it is a problem and its self evident that the club didn't address it. And i'm not completely convinced, like you/SB that it won't impact on the season/promotion fight. Agreed.

But SB and other posters are arguing that the club are either:
- unaware that they need a striker and unaware of the riches on offer if we get promoted.
- don't have the funds to buy a striker, needed to sell Stephens to fund an "attacking option" despite plenty of examples that showed Bloom was prepared to spend a fortune on one. But thats obviously all made up. And anyway wasn't enough to land anyone decent (£8m quid !!)
- Think its impossible to fund or strengthen or focus on one end of the pitch (recruiting Defenders, Midfielders) without it affecting the striker targets/budgets.
- think the club is lying when they say when they explain why they did what they did.

I don't agree with any of that. DO you ?

 

[Brighton Mod]

Dress it up how you like, it APPEARS to some of us, that the club have failed to address the position that was the most pressing if we want to get automatic promotion. This is a recurring failure and has cost us before, so you can't be surprised that some of us think it's a shortcoming that the club could have been expected to solve after 6 years

Not only have we failed to solve it in the First team, we have been just as unsuccessful with the Undr 21s and under 23s, as far as I am aware there hasn't been a single striker worth mentioning that has come through the much vaunted development squad and that cannot have anything to do with FFP and other clubs pricing us out of the market, can it?

Have we even got anyone coming through who might make it, at whatever age?

This is really on the money, our development squad signings are hailed and much celebrated by the club on the website and in press releases, but once signed they disappear, never to be seen or herd of again. There was opportunity to sell our substitute midfielder for £8m and we failed to grasp it, was a striker even identified, we did have an £8m bid in for Pritchard and then spent half of that on a central defender. There appears to be a default in the mindset of those at board level on recruiting a striker and those that we have had in the past have been underwhelming. Every year times move on and the truth is that if we are unable to identify and make a bid for or £10m striker or have such little pulling power that we can't secure a striker from a lower league that will grow and blossom with us or draw in an overseas striker then we re consigning ourselves to mediocrity.
I think there is a disconnect between what the board want and see and that of the fans and even the players, currently I do not see a squad that will challenge for a play off spot and wonder what those in charge of the club see. With home attendances in the top ten in the country, its incredible to think that we are being out bid and more importantly out maneuvered by other clubs.

 

[chaileyjem]

was a striker even identified ? - we did have an £8m bid in for Pritchard .

Was a striker even identified ?
- "we didn't have an £8m bid in for Pritchard." so er, yes. or doesn't that count ?

"have such little pulling power that we can't secure a striker from a lower league"
- er, Baldock.
" draw in an overseas striker"
- er, Hemed. 17 goals.
"there is a disconnect between what the board want "
er, promotion. - what do you think they want.
"we are being out bid and more importantly out maneuvered by other clubs."
we've finished in the play - offs 3 times in the last 4 seasons despite every season spending less than 8 or 9 other clubs in the league. So for three seasons we've out manoevered 18 other teams in the league or 9 clubs that spent more than us.
And we weren't out bid for the 15+ players we've bought in the last 12 months.

That said it not incredible that we can be outbid by clubs with parachute payments though is it ? Newcastle just sold a player for £33m so perhaps they might have more funds to spend than Brighton. Whats so incredible about that. ?

"I do not see a squad that will challenge for a play off spot "
Fair enough but its the same squad as last year that finished 3rd, with some expensive new players and we've 40 games to go . Too early for post mortems but fair enough.

 

[nwgull]

This is really on the money, our development squad signings are hailed and much celebrated by the club on the website and in press releases, but once signed they disappear, never to be seen or herd of again. There was opportunity to sell our substitute midfielder for £8m and we failed to grasp it, was a striker even identified, we did have an £8m bid in for Pritchard and then spent half of that on a central defender. There appears to be a default in the mindset of those at board level on recruiting a striker and those that we have had in the past have been underwhelming. Every year times move on and the truth is that if we are unable to identify and make a bid for or £10m striker or have such little pulling power that we can't secure a striker from a lower league that will grow and blossom with us or draw in an overseas striker then we re consigning ourselves to mediocrity.
I think there is a disconnect between what the board want and see and that of the fans and even the players, currently I do not see a squad that will challenge for a play off spot and wonder what those in charge of the club see. With home attendances in the top ten in the country, its incredible to think that we are being out bid and more importantly out maneuvered by other clubs.

This is virtually the same squad that finished 3rd on 89 points - that's 6 points more than 4th and 20 points more than 7th. It's also the same post January window squad that amassed 45 points in 20 games scoring 41 goals (next best in similar period was Burnley with 33), yet you don't think that we'll challenge for the top 6?!! I take it that you're a glass half empty guy.

We spent nearly all of last season with only 3 strikers available anyway. And from Feb to May, one of them was James 'no more than 45 mins fit' Wilson.

 

[Stat Brother]

Yes. Agreed. But we're not having a debate here about whether 3 strikers, and 5 wingers is enough, whether this is short sighted and a risk. Or even if its other areas of the pitch that will secure promotion. I agree with you that it is a problem and its self evident that the club didn't address it. And i'm not completely convinced, like you/SB that it won't impact on the season/promotion fight. Agreed.

But SB and other posters are arguing that the club are either:
- unaware that they need a striker and unaware of the riches on offer if we get promoted.
- don't have the funds to buy a striker, needed to sell Stephens to fund an "attacking option" despite plenty of examples that showed Bloom was prepared to spend a fortune on one. But thats obviously all made up. And anyway wasn't enough to land anyone decent (£8m quid !!)
- Think its impossible to fund or strengthen or focus on one end of the pitch (recruiting Defenders, Midfielders) without it affecting the striker targets/budgets.
- think the club is lying when they say when they explain why they did what they did.

I don't agree with any of that. DO you ?

I can't believe this is still so pissy.

I don't imagine a real conversation on this subject would have lasted longer than 2 minutes.

"Blimey the whole squad is set up for one more signing, I can't believe they didn't get one of the many strikers they were scouting"
"I know, but once everything else is paid for, not forgetting the length of contracts, I guess they just couldn't make it all work out".
"But not getting the striker makes the rest of the money a bit pointless".
"No. we've still got a bloody good team".
"True but no goals in it though and more importantly no back up".
"They're bloody expensive"
"I know, they always have been, what's more important to this current team a midfielder or a better Baldock?".
"We've got enough to go again in January"
"I hope so but I just can't see it myself".

 

[Stat Brother]

We spent nearly all of last season with only 3 strikers available anyway. And from Feb to May, one of them was James 'no more than 45 mins fit' Wilson.

The problem with that is we spent all of last season with only 3 different strikers available, and let's not forget it wasn't enough as we had none when it really mattered.

On paper of course Murray is an improvement on Zamora.
But in reality he is a carbon copy of Hemed, neither have the guile of BZ.
They chase the same ball, look to score the same goals they are basically 1 striker.

We can all see, how a better Baldock could bring out the very best of both H&M, and make the entire squad tick.
With Baldock as back up, the squad was complete and near perfect.

Without this elusive player the squad hasn't got what it takes to score.
At the moment all a team has to do is double up on AK and let their centre backs deal with H&M - simples.

 

[chaileyjem]

I can't believe this is still so pissy.

I don't imagine a real conversation on this subject would have lasted longer than 2 minutes.

"Blimey the whole squad is set up for one more signing, I can't believe they didn't get one of the many strikers they were scouting"
"I know, but once everything else is paid for, not forgetting the length of contracts, I guess they just couldn't make it all work out".
"But not getting the striker makes the rest of the money a bit pointless".
"No. we've still got a bloody good team".
"True but no goals in it though and more importantly no back up".
"They're bloody expensive"
"I know, they always have been, what's more important to this current team a midfielder or a better Baldock?".
"We've got enough to go again in January"
"I hope so but I just can't see it myself".

Agreed and it would have done but that wasn't the conversation unless you want me to very boringly quote it back at you.. there was a whole bunch of other stuff about "morons", and "hicks" and Stephens having to be sold to fund a striker etc etc.

 

[B.W.]

Was a striker even identified ?
- "we didn't have an £8m bid in for Pritchard." so er, yes. or doesn't that count ?

"have such little pulling power that we can't secure a striker from a lower league"
- er, Baldock.
" draw in an overseas striker"
- er, Hemed. 17 goals.
"there is a disconnect between what the board want "
er, promotion. - what do you think they want.
"we are being out bid and more importantly out maneuvered by other clubs."
we've finished in the play - offs 3 times in the last 4 seasons despite every season spending less than 8 or 9 other clubs in the league. So for three seasons we've out manoevered 18 other teams in the league or 9 clubs that spent more than us.
And we weren't out bid for the 15+ players we've bought in the last 12 months.

That said it not incredible that we can be outbid by clubs with parachute payments though is it ? Newcastle just sold a player for £33m so perhaps they might have more funds to spend than Brighton. Whats so incredible about that. ?

"I do not see a squad that will challenge for a play off spot "
Fair enough but its the same squad as last year that finished 3rd, with some expensive new players and we've 40 games to go . Too early for post mortems but fair enough.

All good arguments CJ, but... IIRC you said you will be disappointed if we did not recruit a 4th striker (during the summer window)... the club has self-evidently FAILED to sign the 4th striker they oh so ****ing obviously needed to place Sam B on the bench / cover for injuries, suspensions, etc. It is a MASSIVE failure pure and simple. You can swallow the BS that Paul Barber published in his summary of the window but I, for one, am NOT buying it. That's because I have a brain that is capable of thinking in a manner that is separate to the club's PR machine.